This topic has been widely discussed amongst the best detailers in the country, and this is what it comes down to.

When you use 106 to correct defects, it will actually hide more then it removes. 106 is an extremely light polish and because of the carriers in it, this is what happens. This is why alcohol wipe downs are so important. If you want to use 106 correctly, then it should be used with a finishing pad (pad with no cut), and after defects have been removed. The purpose of 106 is to increase gloss, NOT remove imperfections and defects. You could even take it a step further and use an even finer polish after 106 to increase the gloss even more.

Now there will always be someone who comes on here and says, well I used 106 with a ***** pad and it removed the swirls. Thats wonderful, but those people probably arent doing alcohol wipe downs, or they arent looking at the paint correctly. Either way, 106 isnt removing as much as they think. Also, dont pay too much attention to the majority of the write ups and show n shines on all the different forums. A lot of people arent doing true correction and they probably dont even realize it. Trying to get 100% correction with maximum gloss can take several days to accomplish.

 

All I am going off of is Menzerna's chart so I appreciate the advice you, Gator and Gip are giving me.

I was reading about the SIP and 106FF combination on Autopia and it seemed that everyone doing alcohol wipe downs found no evidence of swirls being filled in from it. At the same time though, I guess they could be using the SIP correctly in the first place.

 

Well...to add a little personal experience here, I did actually have some success* (See explanation below) with 106ff as an actual defect removing polish, but admittedly it took several more passes and more time than if I had started with something more aggressive.

I was working on a client's car when I first got the FLEX and 106ff (Had done my own first) and it was a black 350z with mild (not light, definitely at least mild) swirls. I was able to remove them completely, but it did require 4-5 passes and it was incredibly time consuming. Also, and I realize this is outside of the box...big time, but I tried it with a LC PFW and believe it or not it was still finishing than most polishes would on a light or no cutting pad.

It blew my mind. There was NO micro-marring or holograms left behind. I am friends with the client and he is the most OCD and blunt person I know, I am confident he would have said something by now if they surfaced.

I have a follow-up wash scheduled for tomorrow so I will try and take a closer look after this wash and report back.

 

When you use 106 correctly, it wont fill because there shouldnt be anything left for it to fill.

 

Jeff Silver states that absolutely 106FF contains no fillers. But take your vehicle a few months later and evidence of micro marring are evident. Take for instance my truck. Looked at it the other day and noticed it. Dan recommends using a finishing pad instead of a polishing, which is what i will do tuesday when i redo mine. 50/50 wipe down or prep sol wipedown is a must with menzerna to make sure you have corrected everything. I feel SIP has more cut than IP.

 

So, Dan, are you saying that this stuff is more of a burnishing type stuff?

Basically, taking a flat surface and giving it the final bit of luster by burnishing (sorry, I cant find a better word) the microscopic stuff?

I am getting interested...

 

Here is something I was taught by one of the best detailers I know.

Now we're just talking about gloss here, not filling capabilities.

Lets take a look at the LC pads and how aggressive they are. We will number them 0- 5, 0 being the most aggressive and giving us the least amount of gloss, so 0 is for 0 gloss.

0- Yellow
1- Orange
2- White
3- Green
4- Gray
5- Blue/ Red

Now lets look at 106, it has a gloss rating of 5.

So lets say you use 106 (5) with a white pad (2), that gives you a gloss rating of 7. Then lets say you use 106 (5) with a blue or red pad (5), that gives you a gloss rating of 10. The goal is to obviously get as much gloss as possible. You can call this jeweling or burnishing the paint.

Just because you polish with say SIP and you dont leave any holograms or buffer marks, DOES NOT mean the paint is ready for wax/ sealant (LSP). All it means is the paint is ready for the jeweling process.

Also keep in mind that there are polishes out there that will give you more gloss then 106. Ill give you a hint, the less cut a polish has, the more gloss it will give you.

Often times people will only use SIP and think the paint looks good. But when you get experience and develop an eye for this stuff, it will turn into a 3 or 4 step process.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but I do want qualify this comment a bit.

Does SIP take the finish as far as it can go as a single step prior to LSP? No, absolutely not.

Does it take it far enough to do a 90% correction on a daily driver for a mid level priced client that isn't looking for, or willing to pay for a three or four step process? Absolutely.

 

None of this was directed at you, sorry if it seemed that way.

However, now it seems like you're saying SIP will get you 90% correction on daily drivers, almost like you're guaranteeing it. I dont think thats what you actually mean.

I think what you mean is, if a client doesnt want to pay for a multiple step polishing process, then only using SIP is a fine choice. And I would agree with you on that. But if you do that, then you have to make sure the client knows that the level of correction you'll get will be rather low. It all comes down to getting what you pay for.

The only thing I was trying to outline here is the correct polishing process and how much is actually involved. Its not taking other things into consideration, especially how much a client is paying.

 

no worries .. never thought that.


you are correct. that is exactly what I meant .. SIP is a good choice for a single step corrective process as long as expectations are reasonable. never meant to say it is a guaranteed 90%.

There is no short cut to complete correction (by complete, meaning as good as that surface can get) with a single step.

 

Yep. Also, if you are going to do a 1 step like that, then you absolutely have to use the proper pad and do alcohol wipe downs.

 

I am going to print that one off...

BTW-- do you have a number system for Megs pads (esp. SO!O pads) and the following: #80, #9, etc?

If so...that would make a great write up... HINT!

Thanks!

 

From what Ive READ, Megs so1o gray finishing, CCS gray finishing, and 3M gray finishing are all the same foam. And all of those have a very light cut. I own the Megs and CCS gray finishing pads and I cant see or feel a difference. Ive also READ that the 3M blue and Edge white have no cut.

Soft buff pads (I use to use the Megs soft buff pads (W7006, W8006, W9006) years ago, havent used them in a LONG time. So Im trying to go on memory here.)
1- W7006
3- W8006
5- W9006

So1o Pads (I dont have personal experience with these pads, but I own the light cut wool pad, gray finishing pads, and have the yellow pads on the way).
WWHC7- 0
WWLC7- 1
WDFP7- 1/ 2
WDFF7- 4

The only Megs polishes that I own are 105 and 83. 105 is a compound, 83 is similar to SIP. Just by reading the description I can tell you #9 is simply a cleaner glaze with fillers. Theres no way something that doesnt contain abrasives can actually cut. Unless you use a cutting pad with it, but that just doesnt make sense to me.

 

Again, Thanks!!!

I kinda figured you were going to do the 1-3-5 deal wiht the Megs pads, but I'd always rather play it safe...

As for #9, I've heard mixed opinions... Some people say it has a LIGHT abrasive, but I dunno... I use it when I dont have tome to fully correct something and wanna fill it in, or when I dont have enough paint to work with... Sometimes I use it because I have 2 bottles of it and need to get rid of stuff before I buy more...

Anywho, thanks again for the input...

FWIW, I have the gray finishing pad and 3 or so of the yellow pads (from the SO!O system)... Once they die, I will be investing in LC pads...

 

So what would you say to using 106 with a white pad and then a second pass with a finishing pad? Waste of time?