Hey guys..i have a gripe to vent...i just got done detailing my mom's 2004 Envoy and had absolutely nothing to work with..she hardly ever washed it and when she did it was the foam brush at the coin op...ouch..but anyways it had swirls and scratches all over it...but to my gripe....i polished with 80 on a green light cutting CCS Lake Country pad on speed 5 used 5 pads on the car...then i broke out the white polishing CCS pad with #9 and i still have some swirls and scratches that appear minor enough to get rid of...am i doing something wrong..i am trying for 15-20 pounds of pressure and any more bogs down my G100 and the sticker on the backing plate barely spins...my questions are 1) Am i using too light of a polish 2) Not being patient enough maybe another pass will get them later on 3) Using wrong technique and/or pad combos 5) Being too OCD if there is such a thing....my first idea was 82 or 83 but i have heard they are sketchy with a PC...any other thoughts on a more abrasive polish that would be easilly cleaned up with another lighter polish? Thanks in advance! Im frustrated

 

I think you have several flaws:

1. I think you may be pushing down too hard
2. I think you need to let the product fully break down
3. You may not be using the right pad

Have patience.

 

I am polishing until the product appears to be translucent and it comes off really easy when i remove the residue...too long or too short?

 

for starters don't press down on the pc while polishing. let the pad and machine do all the work. more than likely you are not using enough pad or product. I am not too familiar with the products you are using because I only use poorboys stuff. remember detailing is all about trial and error. always start off with the lightest pad and product and work down until you have achieved the finish you are looking for. also, if the vehicle is in bad shape you will not get all the swirls and such with the pc under a good light. you will need to orbital and lots of experience to get a perfect finish.

 

Interesting post.

Megs 80 with a Green Lake Pad on Setting 5? Kick it up a notch.

If the marring was bad, I would have used the DA on speed 6. (I do this often, its ok) Let it fully break down. Then check it....if still there, do a second pass, or a third. I disagree with the pressure on the DA....deeper scratches, apply more speed and pressure....light, less pressure.

what you are doing is the proper method....least aggressive approach....the next thing to do is try a product with more cut in it. PoorBoys SSR's are great for this. SSR1 is about equal to Megs 80. Sounds like the marring was more severe. The only way to solve what you are working with is to do multi passes at higher speeds, or go to the Orange Lake or Yellow.

I haven't used a yellow lake with Megs 80 yet, but I can almost predict the results. But if I need the yellow lake pad, I need more cut in the product. Yellow is for really, marred and neglected finishes. 9 times out of ten the Yellow Lake will dull the finish..thus you need to use the Green with a lighter cut to polish it back out.

this is why its REALLY important to understand the product line you are working with. Knowing what is limitations and pad combos are very important.

Don't worry, you're learning, its part of the gig and you are off to a great start. Learn from this and experiment. We're here to help and learn from each other.

 

This is why I sure wish I lived closer to one of you experienced guys to show me first hand how to use my PC when I get it.

 

Paitence. another pass with the #80 will probably help.

As for amount of pressure, somewhere in the #10 to #15 range is about right.

How fast are you moving across the work area? How big of an area are you working at a time?

When you make a pass with the #80, if you see improvement, but don't get exactly what you want, then make another pass.

Work a single 24"x24" area, and get it looking like you want, using mulpitple passes if needed. see how many passes you need, or what prodicuts you need to accomplish the finish you desire, then apply that process to the rest of the vehicle.

If it takes 4 or 5 passes with #80, then you should step up to a more agressive pad or product. If two or three passes gets you the result you desire, then you are on the right path.

 

don't agree with that comment. the rest of the post is dead on.

 

Disagreed to a certain extent. While it may be necessary, it likely can be had with #80 and a couple of passes. Like I said though, you may be right... #83, in my opinion (especially on black) can be a monster to work with... there are other options other than Meg's but, again... I bet it can be had by the #80.

100% disagreed. Constant and continual pressure is better than leaning into it. Most detailers will echo this sentiment. Ten, or so, pounds of downward pressure is about all I'll ever use and can yield the results that my clients demand (as well as what I demand). The reason is that the more you lean into it, the more the pad is doing the work than is the product. Think about it, you're over abrading and thus, going to induce some micro-marring of your own simply by using the pad/product combo incorrectly. Another example is using 100 grit paper on a piece of wood in a downward force scenario -- 100 will get you a long way in a few passes (maybe much farther than you want to go) whereas a few passes with the 300 grit may yield the same result. The commonality between those two is your downward pressure being the same. You want to use the pad/product combo in accordance with the problem on the paint... not the machine in accordance with the problem on the paint. Hence, like I said, you may be right in saying that he needs to kick it up a notch on the cut -- not necessarily the pad speed.

Speaking of pad speed, I'm not a big fan of running much over 4.5 on any product but, that's personal opinion based on my personal observations of several products. When you get much above 5, I think you're getting more of a 'glide' rather than an abrasion against the surface; even with a cutting pad and high cut product. Or, even worse, you're getting a glide without the product breaking down and thus causing micro-marring rather than a slow and gradual breakdown of diminishing abrasives found within nearly every product out there.

I should add a note here saying that I will, on occasion, have to lean into it a bit more but, it's typically spot repair... a novice with the PC will learn when and where one can do this and maybe where one shouldn't. Either way, you shouldn't have to labor yourself to the extreme to remove a problem by pushing with more than about 10 to 15 pounds of downward pressure with the machine -- and remember, the PC will generate (by it's weight) a tad of downward pressure on it's own... probably 4 or so pounds.

Higer RPM doesn't necessarily equal more cut. That's a very important thing to point out here... If it did, all of the manufacs would recommend a 2 speed on a light cut product and 6 on all higher cut products. Further, if it held true, you'd be cranking your rotary up to cut wet sanding marks with a heavier cut compound like 85.

Very good thought here but, remember, pad and product need to play well together. This is what you've recommended and I agree 100%... it's important to note here though that no one is using #26 on a cutting pad of any variety from any manufacturer.

Nail on the head, baby!

Nail on the head again, baby! All of us here who detail with a professional twist on occasion have screwed up and have had to retreat and go back and fix our screw up. Some of those screw ups are a total PITA to remedy but, the good thing is that, when you don't get in a hurry, use a lot of patience, and detect problems as you're moving forward, it's much easier to fix it and make it right.

-RP-

 

I guess it boils down to a 'do as I say, not as I do...' since this will go against a constant pressure paradigm but, I will, if the marring is light or the swirls are very light, basically let the downward pressure of the machine do the work...

Of course, at that point in time, I'm working with a VERY light cut product and typically some type of finishing pad (hence, VERY VERY light cut all the way around).

As I know you'll agree, Doug, the best way is to tinker around a bit and be patient. Slower passes and more patience always yields the best results... right guys?

-RP-

 

This is a great topic and good conversation....

Rock, per this note....wouldn't it also depend on product that you are using? Product behavior, breakdown characteristics etc.

I also disagree with my own statement based on how its worded.

A good follow up question for Rock and Gip, Boss too....given a standard 24X24 section of surface....using, Yellow Megs pad, with Megs #80, how long do you work that area? Single pass.

For me it would give me and possibly others reading a good time line of just how patient you need to be.

 

 

For me, with #80 and a polishing pad on a PC (or any similar product), I would say it depends on the hardness, and condition of the paint. If the paint is hard, and/or in rough shape, I would work a smaller area (maybe 16 X 16) and use as many passes as necessary. Keep just enough downward pressure that allows the buffer to continue to rotate, and not just vibrate.

Of course, in my case, I wouldn't screw around with it much... I'd have my rotary out, with a different pad and product combo... and I'd be done with it in a hurry!

 

sure like the way you think....

 

Agreed. Great convo here... remember, I'm not always right... more or less, I'm just sharing some personal opinions from observations with several different products. I'd be very interested in hearing Boss's & Gip's opinions here as well...

Product behavior and characteristic-wise, I still think that you're going to use a standard (ie: the same) amount of downward pressure towards the paint and rely on the machine to spin/oscillate the pad whereas the product and pad are doing most of the work against the paint.

If the product is setting up too quickly (ie: drying), maybe it would be a good instance to use a little more downward pressure...

To that point though, this is one reason why I really like Meguiar's polishes (for the most part). Some are oilier than others which yields a longer period of time that you can work the product. Others, in more moist environments, will have a higer solvent content and thus, will dry a tad quicker (because the moist environment will keep it from drying)... now, again, as we all know, there's no necessity to letting the polish dry to the paint (in fact, it's better that you don't with most products) but, between a dry and a moist environments, there are different Meg's polish products that will possess nearly identical 'cutting power' to get the job done wherever *you* live. #80 is just one of those good 'catch-all' types of products that is pretty oily but, not over the top, IMO.


On a two-foot length of pass, I'd probably be around one to two seconds per inch... so, around 25 to 45 seconds... my speed will depend on the condition of the paint (as will my product selection).

Variables are:

1. Product (oodles of variables within this one)
2. Pad (oodles of variables within this one too)
3. PC Rotating/Oscillating Speed
4. Length of Pass (distance from A to B)
5. Downward Pressure Through the Machine to the Paint
6. Type of Machine (different machine (G100 vs UDM vs XYZ))
7. ... I'm sure I'm missing something.


Keep it going... NEXT!

-RP-