I thank you for your input and willingness to help get to the bottom of this.

If we can get Alan to out getting someone to his shop for this comparison and a volunteer to take the plates and get the fair comparison then that's great. I will buy the kit from you and we can get on with it. All Alan will have to do is open the doors to the shop and provide one of the plates that he had made in it's 'unmodified' form to compare to the others.

If not, I will buy the plate from you after you take as many pictures as you deem needed and we can get the guys here to find a disinterested third party shop to do the comparison between an FT plate, an 02 Crown Vic plate and the plate you got from Mike. The only thing we will be missing at that point is an 'unmodified' plate from Alan.

This should be a simple thing to get done. Again, thanks for offering to help getting this resolved.

Darrin

 

When this is all said and done you will have proven what? That your relentless to stalk me across the internet in slander?
Business must have slowed down for you making you go at me on multiple forums again. Why can't you just go on with your own life and leave me alone? A year ago your stalking and threats of lawsuits was old. Now it's just stupid and not worth the time. Before I showed you these transmissions your knowledge was limited to what you have read on the internet. I have been in this business since I was 16. Either go get your team of attorneys and sue me like the multiple messages you have left on my answering machine, email and messages on multiple bulletin boards or leave me alone. Twice a week I get a call about someone who called you and you told them all kinds of bad stuff about me. All over one converter claimed to have failed but never returned for warranty. When they ask me about you I reply simply " we no longer do business together for personal reasons" I leave it at that. The slander only makes you look bad.
I also highly suggest keeping better records. The customers that call me saying you told them I built there converter and then they send me a unit that is unpainted with no serial number. All my units have been painted and serial numbered for my lookup system. I guess that wouldn't have come up if you could make the transmission you sold them work.
Alan

 

Well of course we can't just have a civil discussion where you are presented with a proposal to prove what you are saying. You are rambling nonsense again and it isn't making you look very good.

I don't know what else to do, I honestly don't. This is the perfect opportunity for you to prove what you are saying about your product with no cost to you at all. All you have to do is open the door to your shop and show an unbiased party what you are talking about. That is all.

Why is this so hard?

Oh wait, I know... It's because pretty much all of what you said isn't true and you are just trying to get the thread locked now. How typical.

Darrin

 

That seems complicated but fills your need for Drama. Gregg himself lives near me, why don't you send him. We both know who he will want to be right....him. I'll post pics of the 02 crownvic plate and it's clone when I get a chance. It is still a moot point that makes no difference to anyone. I never claimed my plates in stock form to be superior to anything. The modifications done to them makes them perform. On trucks the common modifications don't always work. I didn't have to buy a plate from Gregg to steal his work on it. I did my own R&D. Now enlighten us on why you had me buy the C plate you own from Gregg....Thats right so you could copy his work. I personally do things a little different. Not that his way is bad, just that I like things a little different. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong.
I will say I think the way you carry on about me all the time and Email me non stop is wrong.
How do you think you are going to email me telling me how poor my finances are and you feel sorry for me. You and I measure wealth a little differently. I could make as much money as I make now doing maintenance at McDonalds, I know because I have done it before. I however feel wealthy because I have 3 wonderful children living in my house calling me Daddy, and a wife that I love too. We all have the LORD with us. Thats all I need from life. Toys and money are great, I guess. I've sold a few toys this year because I needed the money instead. Do I miss them? Sure! Can I live without them? Most definately! Do I need your non stop drama? Certainly not!
Anyone who wants to stop in here to check out plates can feel free to.
Alan

 

Back to this game huh?

More mistruths and misdirection to steer perspective and divert attention.

What he does is set it up so I have to reply to what he says or I look like a jerk.

He has to do stuff like take a poke at me directly in the eye with the 'having his kids at home' thing because he knows that I don't have my son with me and how much that bothers me. He gets very personal and is visciously mean about it. I know you all know someone like that. The type that attempts to sidestep the issue by saying mean and hurtful things. This is exactly what he does and he does it well.

I have explained that all I need to I think. I am sure you can all see who went way off track instead of sticking to the point at hand and why I had to answer.

But back to the situation at hand. We have an offer to let someone let someone go to Alan's shop to compare the plates. Now I hope we can find a volunteer to put themself through it all. LOL

Darrin

 

I am sorry to interrupt guys, but can anyone enlighten me with some knowledge as to how or why my kit could/could not have caused Trans failure.

Specs 02 5.4l 4x2, 4r70w with 75,000... Well maintained miles.

Thanks

George

 

The honest answer is that I don't know for 100% positive yet. This is exactly why we started collecting these plates to compare them against themselves and see if the reason is obvious. I saw some issues and took them to a local machine shop for inspection. Lack of uniform thickness is the most likely of the early speculations because they were not what they should be. One of the guys called the plate a "potato chip".

The metal between the different sources of plates is also different and apparently the laser cutting process warps certain ones of these more than another and the gaskets are not enough to take up the slack.

But, the biggest concern of the machine shop was the lack of uniformity between the laser cut holes on the same holes between plates from the same source. The rough and jagged edges didn't provide uniform hole sizes and therefore wouldn't provide uniform fluid flow between 2 of the same plates. They showed us this with the few examples we took them and it was a startling find.

FYI There is a VERY obvious difference between a laser cut hole and one that is drilled. The plates that we bought from 'customers' didn't have any holes drilled, they were all laser cut. This would pretty much eliminate the claim that the plates were modified after manufacture since the only way the party making that claim has to modify the plate is to drill it.

This is why it's a great opportunity to get another one back from a disinterested third party in an open forum. If that plate is or isn't "modified" other than the initial laser cutting then it will become clear to all what's what here. If it was modified past the initial laser cut that still leaves us with the main problems but it at least shows that the person making them is trying to provide what he says he is.

According to the machine shop the only way to properly do these is stamping them. That would cost a fortune though.

Darrin

 

My Factory Tech Plate came yesterday. It is marked as the one in the picture provided by DB so it looks like it is what I originally wanted. The knock off plate is still in my truck so I have not made any comparisons yet. I hope to do this Thursday evening as I am looking to go camping this weekend and want to change this out before I go. I will post what I see at that time for those of you following along.

 

OK here is what I noticed when I put my Factory Tech plate in Thursday. Let me first say that I am not a Transmission Tech or a Mechanic by trade but I have been working on my own and friends vehicles for almost 25 years now so I know what a wrench looks like. I did not get pictures as the camera battery was dead and I was in a time crunch to get this done before I left camping for the long weekend we just had.

Both the Factory Tech plate and the one from Madenterprise looked the same. They had all the same holes and the same sizes for those holes. The only difference was that the Factory Tech plate was marked as such and was a more polished metal. The metal on the FT plate appeared to be harder. When I put the bolt in the plate that holds the plate to the top of the valve body it did not scratch the plate as it did on the ME plate. The holes on both aftermarket plates are Laser cut. They are for the most part clean but not perfect as the stamped OEM plate I took out. The difference between the two processes is really quite minimal visually. Both aftermarket plates looked every bit as flat and even as the OEM one to me. I could only see that two holes had been enlarged on the aftermarket plates so there really is not much change there from the OEM plate.

I added back all the factory springs when I changed to the FT plate as I did not want the extra firm shifts that I had when I installed the ME plate. It does shift into gear with less delay than the OEM set up.

Knowing everything I know now I would have gone with the valve body from Troyer as that is what I originally looked at before I read up on the FT plate. I read that FT claimed he could make the same difference with his separator plate as he could with his valve body which is why he did not offer the valve body any more for the newer transmissions. I am not an expert but I can't see how two enlarged holes in a separator plate can give you the same performance as a reworked valve body. Call me crazy. I may even still go to the Troyer valve body in the future but for now I am tired of tranny work as I have also had to do some on another of my rides. For $85 (for the FT) or $100 (for the ME) I guess you get what you pay for and for the money they do make a difference.

These are just my views and experience with the 3 plates I have had in my truck. Take them for what you will.

 

Thanks for your input. It verifies what we have found as well. The knock off plates are copies and are not "custom modified".

Visual inspection will only show so much when it comes to the quality that we are talking about with the metal that can cause issues here. The steel on the Factory Tech plates is indeed better in that respect.

What I did was take a couple of each of the plates (FT, the knock off, and a stock plate) to a company called Triangle Engineering and had them inspected. What they found was shocking. The FT plate and the other one were identical except for quality. The steel on the FT plate was better in respect to both strength and uniform thickness. There was enough non-uniformity in the knock off plate that the gasket might not seal properly to prevent cross leaks. Also, with inspection under a magnifying glass, the holes were not uniform round on the laser cut plates and there were differences between the same holes on supposedly identical holes between the 2 supposedly identical plates. The engineering company said that laser cutting wasn't precise and this was to be expected. Whether this is enough to cause issue is honestly debatable.

Honesty is everything in this business. If you get lied to on one thing, how can you know what else the party will lie to you about? How can you trust anything from them?

Work only with those who honestly have your best interests in mind and please don't feed the liars.

Darrin

 

I should have mentioned that between the two plates I would definately choose the Factory Tech Separator Plate every time. Just from the perceived metal quality alone. If the tests you have had done DB are accurate then I feel even better about the FT plate I installed.

Thanks for all the information you have added DB it has helped me to get the Factory Tech plate I wanted. You opened my eyes to the fact that I should do even more research when making purchases on the web and make sure that I am getting what I ordered. In my defense however I did not see this information anywhere on the web before which is why I kept adding to this thread as I found out more.

Honesty is everything. Period.

 

One thing that is very unfortunate with the truck sites is that the truck people rarely stray from them. With these modular engines and the transmissions that are attached to them there are more resources than you might think because they are shared across other platforms and there are shops doing really awesome stuff that you are not being exposed to.

Also, the information that we are talking about is getting pretty well known with the other platforms and you guys miss out on that part of things as well.

As with everything, much can be learned if you look in more places than just a few. The information here is indeed awesome and this is by far one of the best places to start. But, always try to find out as much as you can before you do things that can end up being very costly if done wrong.

Again, thanks a bunch for sharing what you have found. You may have not only saved yourself a lot of money and headache, but you also very likely saved others from trouble that they didn't need in the process. Sometimes it's a lot of trouble and can cause trouble, but it definitely helps separate the wheat from the chaff.

Darrin

 

Well I'm installing a FT separator B plate in my '96 F150, (302ci). Have called the number supplied with my invoice, was given Gregg's cell # and left message. Just covering all bases with a post. When installing the valve body back in, everything goes in fine except the 2 "guide" bolts", (the ones with about a 1/2 in of none thread rounded on the end). The holes in the plate are too small to allow the guide pin portion to go thru. Need to know if I just leave em out, cut off the offending nubs, or torque the heck out of it and force em thru. Anyone else have this prob?...(and know, it isn't mentioned in the enclosed directions)

 

Are your guide pins much larger than the holes in the plate?

Better question yet, what is the size of the head on the guide pin bolts? Is it a 10mm head like the rest or are they larger?

If larger then stop now and give me a call at 317-514-0816

Darrin

 

Well Darrin, here's the results. The FT plate was missing 2 tiny pin holes, decided to try it anyways,(a kit I installed many years ago was missing a couple of holes and worked great) reverse is great, Drive, manual2 and 1, can feel it engage, but when you hit the gas, nothing but slippage. Have already replaced the MLPS because of what seemed to be overdrive neutraling, and along with the FT plate went ahead and replaced the inner electrics (EPC, MCC, and shift solenoids). As far as those 2 guide bolts, checked up in the main case and the holes weren't threaded so I bought 2 new ones that just went as deep as the threads on the old ones so didn't have to drill the plate. At this point I'm thinking I might have a bad direct clutch pack. Plan on reinstalling old plate tommorrow and will post results and get you the ID numbers off the case.