Need advice from engineers\fabricators & video\film pros plz.. warning long read!
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Need advice from engineers\fabricators & video\film pros plz.. warning long read!
Hello All!
Long time lurker and finally a new member!
Short Story: I wrecked my beloved 2000 Jeep Cherokee last week, it is totaled. But it was getting too cramped to store my video gear anyways, so I have since outgrown it, so it is a bit sooner than I expected to upgrade to a full sized truck. I have been lurking the Ford truck forums for many months and researching.
Since the 2010s are now slim pickins around my area (Orlando, Florida). I went to one dealership; the salesman was really trying to sell me the two used diesels he had on the lot. Not exactly what I am looking for. No eye contact, and misspelled my name in the email, too focused in selling me something and NOT listening to what my needs are. That is really annoying, since that was a waste of my time. Second dealership, had another salesman, this time very knowledgeable and courteous, and seemed genuinely interested in what my requirements are.
Long story: So, my requirements are now I am looking to have a F-150 with Crew Cab, 4x4 with the longest bed possible, in this case a 6.5 bed. I would prefer a 8 foot bed but I don't want to go up to a F-250. It is too much truck and I have to consider gas economy for now. The crew cab is room for gear stowage and while working on a gig, the director and first AC pulling focus a with a onboard high definition video monitor so he or she sees what I see and approve the shot or do a retake. Another monitor will be added, so the focus puller will be able to accurately gauge distance to focus the lens effectively. My main job is to do framing and movement of the camera to the director’s command. I also may have headset rigged up so I can communicate while I am operating and consider the director’s needs (within reason). The 4x4 is off-roading to remote locations that is frequently called for depending on client’s needs. And lastly... the 6.5 bed requirement will be explained below.
So, I go to the Ford dealerships in my area and check out what they have there in their inventory. Well, the second salesman, found one, but a pending upgrade since his buyer is waiting to trade his 2009+ truck for the new ecoboost. He already ordered it but it will take about 6 weeks. I am not sure if I can wait that long. I am now renting a car for at least 2 weeks.
With the above requirements is unusual enough. Here is more... my needs is not your typical request. My background is in video; more specifically, I am a Jimmy Jib Triangle owner\operator. Quick link here:http://jimmyjib.com/triangle.html I wish to appeal to higher end clients to provide dynamic shots for car commercials and maybe action shots, sorta the poor man's crane truck. I want to mount a jib to the back of the truck and for me to manually operate it while I am standing in the truck bed. As I see there are two bolts by the factory, they stick up directly at the rear of the tailgate. I am not opposed to drill more holes as required to safely and effectively mount the crane. Now, I also see that I can use from one of the manufacturer’s 5th wheel bottom half bracket mounted from underneath the truck; but they mount it mid bed and between the 2 wheel wells to tow loads. Where I want to mount and weld the 5th wheel bracket is between the rails and it is to be directly behind the tailgate for my use, if need be I will take the tailgate out completely. My question is, will it be a tongue weight issue or a regular load capacity issue? I do not want any stability issues in terms of unpredictable control of the truck while operating. I will also install airbags to smooth out the ride any way I can, because if the truck shakes the camera will shake too. Shaking is for dogs, not pictures.
Since I will be at the rear of my camera crane standing in the bed and operating while the vehicle is moving primarily straight at 30 mph or under. Any turns MUST be at 5mph or less, since the natural tendency of the camera crane is to swing out while the vehicle is turning... lots of inertia and centrifugal force and other laws of dynamics adding to it. I know I am aware of the safety and clearing issues as installing a mounting point on the truck so I can wear a safety harness while I am piloting my rig while the truck is being driven. Since I weigh about 200 lbs, and my gear, with counterweights is about 500-700 lbs. and is mounted near the bumper. Since the bed is 6.5 feet in length, the camera crane from where it pivots towards me is about 4 feet long... I have approximately 2.5 feet of space to work with is where I will be standing at. From the pivot point to where the camera is mounted is approximately 4-16 feet long. The camera crane is modular I can make it longer or shorter depending on the shot needed. The maximum total length of the camera crane is approximately 18 feet long. It should be fine in terms of operating it. Example pict here: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...csDskHTh6aPkeA
Question is… is it ok in terms of dynamic load since the camera is pivoting up and down and at the same time swing left and right while the truck is moving? Basically, the crane is a high tech see-saw (weighs approximately 200-300 with all necessary accessories) that has a camera (camera up to 50lbs) at one end and I am also operating where the counterweights are at (up to 300lbs.). I don't think I will be capable in terms of having to tow another vehicle to film or video like a F250 with diesel on up. Not desiring to do that anyways. I want the truck to be capable of doing that at a moment's notice and still be able unbolt it for regular everyday daily driving and regular usage. I see the bed is pretty thin, I suspect that is true for all trucks, but I don't expect it to handle the flexing and bouncing of the camera crane while in motion at a small focused area and not expect it to buckle in the near future. So I expect the 5th wheel bracket that is being mounted in between the wheel wells and bolted in and handling the dynamic load as the bracket that is holding the crane. The bed itself is just sandwich filler between the two brackets that I assume should not get affected at all. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
No welding on the frames here. I want no chance of weakening the Ford’s renowned frame at all. This is part of the reason I am picking FORD as my choice of vehicle is because of the beefy frame. The only welding is getting a machinist or welder to fabricate a post with support rails (like a tripod) in which to bolt in to the truck said camera crane. I am also not opposed to mounting speedrail pipes http://www.hollaender.com/index.cfm?page=entertainmentonto the frame and hitch to serve as a mounting point. Here is a video how they install the bottom part of a 5th wheel bracket, please ignore the actual 5th wheel itself since I am NOT using it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agorb-9EUW8
Another issue is that I am getting a auto loan, but also waiting for my tax returns to bolster my buying power on a truck. So far, my bank has a pending auto loan from the bank at about 25K, I can probably add another 5K towards a new\used truck, preferably a 2009+ model. I will then slowly add these mods for business as funds comes along. It may take me another 6 months to a year to complete these mods and test it out before I do any field work. I am not sure I will have enough cash immediately for a new truck, especially for my requirements.
Sorry about the wall of text. I hope I got my point across. I guess this post is mostly for engineers, machinists, fabricators and gearheads. I am open to any reasonable advice and suggestions. I will be glad to make any clarifications or illustrate my ideas if need be. Thanks in advance!
Long time lurker and finally a new member!
Short Story: I wrecked my beloved 2000 Jeep Cherokee last week, it is totaled. But it was getting too cramped to store my video gear anyways, so I have since outgrown it, so it is a bit sooner than I expected to upgrade to a full sized truck. I have been lurking the Ford truck forums for many months and researching.
Since the 2010s are now slim pickins around my area (Orlando, Florida). I went to one dealership; the salesman was really trying to sell me the two used diesels he had on the lot. Not exactly what I am looking for. No eye contact, and misspelled my name in the email, too focused in selling me something and NOT listening to what my needs are. That is really annoying, since that was a waste of my time. Second dealership, had another salesman, this time very knowledgeable and courteous, and seemed genuinely interested in what my requirements are.
Long story: So, my requirements are now I am looking to have a F-150 with Crew Cab, 4x4 with the longest bed possible, in this case a 6.5 bed. I would prefer a 8 foot bed but I don't want to go up to a F-250. It is too much truck and I have to consider gas economy for now. The crew cab is room for gear stowage and while working on a gig, the director and first AC pulling focus a with a onboard high definition video monitor so he or she sees what I see and approve the shot or do a retake. Another monitor will be added, so the focus puller will be able to accurately gauge distance to focus the lens effectively. My main job is to do framing and movement of the camera to the director’s command. I also may have headset rigged up so I can communicate while I am operating and consider the director’s needs (within reason). The 4x4 is off-roading to remote locations that is frequently called for depending on client’s needs. And lastly... the 6.5 bed requirement will be explained below.
So, I go to the Ford dealerships in my area and check out what they have there in their inventory. Well, the second salesman, found one, but a pending upgrade since his buyer is waiting to trade his 2009+ truck for the new ecoboost. He already ordered it but it will take about 6 weeks. I am not sure if I can wait that long. I am now renting a car for at least 2 weeks.
With the above requirements is unusual enough. Here is more... my needs is not your typical request. My background is in video; more specifically, I am a Jimmy Jib Triangle owner\operator. Quick link here:http://jimmyjib.com/triangle.html I wish to appeal to higher end clients to provide dynamic shots for car commercials and maybe action shots, sorta the poor man's crane truck. I want to mount a jib to the back of the truck and for me to manually operate it while I am standing in the truck bed. As I see there are two bolts by the factory, they stick up directly at the rear of the tailgate. I am not opposed to drill more holes as required to safely and effectively mount the crane. Now, I also see that I can use from one of the manufacturer’s 5th wheel bottom half bracket mounted from underneath the truck; but they mount it mid bed and between the 2 wheel wells to tow loads. Where I want to mount and weld the 5th wheel bracket is between the rails and it is to be directly behind the tailgate for my use, if need be I will take the tailgate out completely. My question is, will it be a tongue weight issue or a regular load capacity issue? I do not want any stability issues in terms of unpredictable control of the truck while operating. I will also install airbags to smooth out the ride any way I can, because if the truck shakes the camera will shake too. Shaking is for dogs, not pictures.
Since I will be at the rear of my camera crane standing in the bed and operating while the vehicle is moving primarily straight at 30 mph or under. Any turns MUST be at 5mph or less, since the natural tendency of the camera crane is to swing out while the vehicle is turning... lots of inertia and centrifugal force and other laws of dynamics adding to it. I know I am aware of the safety and clearing issues as installing a mounting point on the truck so I can wear a safety harness while I am piloting my rig while the truck is being driven. Since I weigh about 200 lbs, and my gear, with counterweights is about 500-700 lbs. and is mounted near the bumper. Since the bed is 6.5 feet in length, the camera crane from where it pivots towards me is about 4 feet long... I have approximately 2.5 feet of space to work with is where I will be standing at. From the pivot point to where the camera is mounted is approximately 4-16 feet long. The camera crane is modular I can make it longer or shorter depending on the shot needed. The maximum total length of the camera crane is approximately 18 feet long. It should be fine in terms of operating it. Example pict here: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...csDskHTh6aPkeA
Question is… is it ok in terms of dynamic load since the camera is pivoting up and down and at the same time swing left and right while the truck is moving? Basically, the crane is a high tech see-saw (weighs approximately 200-300 with all necessary accessories) that has a camera (camera up to 50lbs) at one end and I am also operating where the counterweights are at (up to 300lbs.). I don't think I will be capable in terms of having to tow another vehicle to film or video like a F250 with diesel on up. Not desiring to do that anyways. I want the truck to be capable of doing that at a moment's notice and still be able unbolt it for regular everyday daily driving and regular usage. I see the bed is pretty thin, I suspect that is true for all trucks, but I don't expect it to handle the flexing and bouncing of the camera crane while in motion at a small focused area and not expect it to buckle in the near future. So I expect the 5th wheel bracket that is being mounted in between the wheel wells and bolted in and handling the dynamic load as the bracket that is holding the crane. The bed itself is just sandwich filler between the two brackets that I assume should not get affected at all. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
No welding on the frames here. I want no chance of weakening the Ford’s renowned frame at all. This is part of the reason I am picking FORD as my choice of vehicle is because of the beefy frame. The only welding is getting a machinist or welder to fabricate a post with support rails (like a tripod) in which to bolt in to the truck said camera crane. I am also not opposed to mounting speedrail pipes http://www.hollaender.com/index.cfm?page=entertainmentonto the frame and hitch to serve as a mounting point. Here is a video how they install the bottom part of a 5th wheel bracket, please ignore the actual 5th wheel itself since I am NOT using it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agorb-9EUW8
Another issue is that I am getting a auto loan, but also waiting for my tax returns to bolster my buying power on a truck. So far, my bank has a pending auto loan from the bank at about 25K, I can probably add another 5K towards a new\used truck, preferably a 2009+ model. I will then slowly add these mods for business as funds comes along. It may take me another 6 months to a year to complete these mods and test it out before I do any field work. I am not sure I will have enough cash immediately for a new truck, especially for my requirements.
Sorry about the wall of text. I hope I got my point across. I guess this post is mostly for engineers, machinists, fabricators and gearheads. I am open to any reasonable advice and suggestions. I will be glad to make any clarifications or illustrate my ideas if need be. Thanks in advance!
Last edited by dogtired107; Feb 8, 2011 at 03:04 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: southeastern, Virginia
Going to give you a bump in hopes of getting some quality responses to help you out. Personally that sounds like a lot of work...fab work at that. Not my expertise so i'l comment on finding you the rig you are looking for. The 6.5ft bed on the screw is not the norm, but that being said giving it some time and research and looking further away for it should result in you finding one. I've seen quite a few in my area, so it might be more geographical, so you may have to put up with paying the man to ship it, or work it in to the deal. You can always give that task to your nearest dealer to find the truck you want and they will work out the details to get it there. If they are a good dealer and want your business they won't have a problem finding you one. You may want to broaden your scope to the lariat, fx4 etc. that can also come with the longer bed on the screw and may give you a better chance to find one.
Again I'm not familiar with you using the bed as a platform to take videos, but I would assume all of that gear and especially the boom will weigh a decent amount, especially with the boom extended like a crane creating other issues. That being said I would throw out that a 3/4 ton might fit that application better, that would also give you a longer bed to work with and you can still go gas or diesel. And you can't go wrong with a used truck a year or two old that you are going to be hacking into the bed with anyway, and saving money with too.
Good luck and keep us posted, that's something I would like to see.
Again I'm not familiar with you using the bed as a platform to take videos, but I would assume all of that gear and especially the boom will weigh a decent amount, especially with the boom extended like a crane creating other issues. That being said I would throw out that a 3/4 ton might fit that application better, that would also give you a longer bed to work with and you can still go gas or diesel. And you can't go wrong with a used truck a year or two old that you are going to be hacking into the bed with anyway, and saving money with too.
Good luck and keep us posted, that's something I would like to see.
Last edited by ruffn-it; Feb 11, 2011 at 12:13 AM.
