http://media.ford.com/search_results...ywords=3+valve

So the #'s are in: 300hp and 365 ft/lb Tq

On one hand I'm pumped about this motor. Along with the new 5 speeed auto, it should be a great powertrain. On the other hand, Dodge will sell the 1500 with the HEMI @ 345 Hp and 375 ft/lb tq.

The quote from Ford yesterday was; " best in class for a light duty pickup". My question is who are they trying to fool? Did they run their announcment 2 hours before the new '03.5 Dodge Ram 1500/Hemi was announced a tthe SEMA show just so this statement was true for a few minutes? What gives FORD. Why always behind? In 1996 the (97 model) 5.4L has 235 HP. Chevy beast us with 255in the first 5.7L Vortec. 2 years later the 5.4L gets bumped to 260hp. Sorry to late, the Chevy now has 275 (eventually bumped to 290) So now 5 years later we'll be at 300. WOW!!! Within minutes Dodge has 345! Surely history would tell Ford that the competition will not sit on their hands while we figure out how to get another 20 ponies out of our engines... C'mon. The last time Ford was able to say they had the most Hp in a lightduty truck was when, the 1993 5.8L? I know all about the torque argument blah, blah and in many respects I agree. I have always liked the 5.4L over the 5.3L but hey this HEMI is no slouch when it comes to TQ. That argumennt won't work any more... And don't even bother putting the 3V heads on the V10 unless it'll kick the 8.1L's azzz.........

 

Don't be so down. It's 300 hp @5000 rpm. That probably is best in class as well as 365 ft/lb @3750. What good is any hp and torque if you gotta rev over 5000 rpm to get it. The current 5.4 is wonderfull at low rpm hp and torque. I'm sad that they have to rev 5000 rpm to get 300 hp, but the chevy and dodge boys are doing the same thing. You have to look at the whole hp and torque curve and get an idea of what power you have in the rpm range yoiu drive at. The HP wars are nice for advertising, but when you hook a trailer on or try to haul a load you need power down low @ 1800-2800 rpm.

-jeff b.

 

The old Dodge 5.9L had lots of torque too, just not much power (didn't like to rev) and the transmission sucked. The Hemi has more torque at every RPM, and revs easier and with 100 more Hp gusto. One more gear too. That is going to be difficult to beat in a light duty truck. So what if it has to rev? Get a shorter gear to keep the enigne where its power is. My 5.4L 3.73 17" tire F-150 cruises near 2200rpm at 80mph. That is a very good range for this engine at my highway speeds. Enough power to stay in overdrive, and get decent mileage (all things considered). But some engines are designed to work better at igher speeds. Both of my cars are happy in the 3000-5500rpm range. They cruise near 3300rpm at 80mph, yet they are quiet and get much better fuel mileage because they are turned that way. Plenty of midrange power (torque) too. If the complete package is designed correctly, I'd love a truck engine that likes to rev. My 5.4L is good in the midrange, but 4500rpm comes and power drops off. If I had to tow 5000 pounds, overdrive would be off and the poor engine would sound straining at 3000rpm and get crappy fuel economy.

Oh, well. It is all speculation thus far because the highest stated power doesn't always feel the best in execution. But I've driven a few 4.7L Chrysler V8's with the same transmission and thought they were excellent drivetrain combos for those vehicles, much better than what I am already quite satisfied with in my Ford.

 

re:: The Hemi has more torque at every RPM, and revs easier and with 100 more Hp gusto. One more gear too. That is going to be difficult to beat in a light duty truck.

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You know that for sure ? You've seen the hp and torque curves for both ?

The Dodge had better have a good trans/engine combo. Out of the 5 people I know with Dodge trucks that work them...4 have had trans failures in <40k. That is terrible. Remember the hemi is still wrapped by a Dodge truck.

If you like the Dodge thean get one. I'll buy what I want.
THat's what make this the best place on earth to live...

 

The Hemi has more torque at every RPM than the engine it replaces, the 5.9L. I do not know how it it compares to the 3V 5.4L. I have not seen an engine power curve for the Hemi. The closest I have is this quote:
With a whopping 330 horsepower and 360 pound feet of torque, the new engine is more powerful then any of the competitions five to six liter V8 engines. Its power curve is an improvement over the 5.9. Horsepower wise, the 5.9 plateaus at around 4000 rpm where it hits 245 hp then begins to drop off. The 5.7 hits 250 hp around 3500 rpm. The power keeps on coming as the revs toward 5500. At the same rpm were the 5.9 puts out max hp the 5.7 is putting out 300 hp.

Torque is really the true measure of an engine's power. When comparing the two engines torque curves the superiority of the 5.7 is clearly evident. The 5.9 puts out a maximum of 335 lb. ft of torque at 3200 rpm. The 5.7 on the other hand puts 325 lb. ft at 1500 rpm. It continues to go up from there eventually hitting its peak out put of 360 pound feet at 4000 rpm. Heck, at a mere 1000 rpm the 5.7 delivers more than 300 pound feet of torque! These numbers translate to an engine which has plenty of pulling power and great highway characteristics, in other words . . . it's the perfect truck engine.

As I said, those are not my words. Just about every Chyrsler truck owner with a the old school 5.2L or 5.9L engines and have the old school (like 40 yr old) designed transmissions has failed. My parents had a Ram Van 5.2L and the trans sucked. I am telling you the 5-speed auto is very much superior to it, and it has been used (with the lower powered 4.7L) since 1999 in Grand Cherokees, and many Dakotas and Durangos. I have a lot of confidence in this new transmission, despite everyone knowing DC's reputation. Like I said, I agee that the old trans is bad, no, terrible at best. But the new one is so good. Know anyone with a Chrysler 4.7?

I agree - good place this America is for us to have a few decent options to choose from. I like lots of vehicles including trucks. I think GM, Ford, and Dodge all have their benefits and all have capable trucks for what anyone could use them for. All three have had issues in the past couple years, but it really is a crap shoot on whether you get a good bad one or not. I already own a Ford truck. I only need one truck and have no reason to replace it. I guess I got a lucky one becaus it has been solid. A few things came up and I'm glad I bought the extended warranty, but it isn't worth selling or trading in for a newer model. I get both the Ford and Chrysler employee discounts and it would be hard for me to choose right now if I were in the market. I'm sure a test drive in a 1500 Hemi would sway me a lot. But the interior materials are barely close to my 99. I like the truck I have a great deal. It was just about the best availible at the time, and Ford made some changes I don't care for (take away my 3.73 gear option until 2003 models for one), but they added a lot more things I would really like. But I'd be pissed if I got rid of a perfectly good and strong running truck for a new one that was not as well built by any manufacturer. Until I loose my confidence that this trruck won't last me 10-15years total, I'm not getting rid of it. And hopefully I won't need to purchase another pickup either when it becomes less used for daily transportation and more for pure pickup and towing duties.

Sorry for the length.

Ah, some good news IMO that wil lgo along with the new 5.4L engine:

New RWD 6-speed transmission

Ford will introduce an all-new rear-wheel-drive family of 6-speed automatic transmissions beginning in the 2005 calendar year. The new 6-speeds, featuring multiple variants for Ford Motor Company cars and trucks, will provide fuel economy improvements in the range of 6 percent to 8 percent.

These 6-speed transmissions use a very efficient architecture with reduced part complexity, low parasitic losses with comparable weight to many 4-speed automatics. This transmission will also have the ability to automatically shift into neutral during extended idle conditions, to reduce drag on the engine. When the driver presses the accelerator to launch, the transmission will reengage smoothly and automatically.

Sophisticated electronic control of the new transmission will offer several new features, including shift points that better adjust to specific driving conditions, and grade braking similar to that on the new TorqShift.

Moe gears with wider spacing is good for me. Short low gears for acceleration and tall overdrives for decent highway mileage. Hopefulyl the gears won't be too tall that it takes away any power on the highway for accelerating, though.

Aaron

 

I like what I'm seeing. I'm glad about the high rpm power output. The engine will still tow as good or better than the current one and it will be so much faster under WOT. That must be whe the gm 5.3L is so fast. I think I'll be very satisfied. My local dealer and I spoke today and I'm on his list for an '04 supercab flareside Lariat with full options. I hope I can afford one because I'm going to order one!!!!!!!

 

HP and torque are not everything in an engine and the overall vehicle performance. It’s how the power is translated in many ways to the road. The Dodge Hemi uses two spark plugs and I don’t believe gas mileage improvement was an overall concern. I want an engine that is refined and reliable. It sounds like the engineering Ford has done will accomplish that. The 2004 Triton 5.4L, sounds like it hit it's mark!

 

aaron (APT)

I did not mean my post to be a slam....hope you did not take it that way. Looks like we are in agreement.

re:

But the new one is so good. Know anyone with a Chrysler 4.7?
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Yeah...his engine and trans are good, but he had to replace rear end gears before 8000 miles ...8^(.

I do agree that DC is getting there. I have a friend that gets a new RAM every 2 years. It's amazing how much better this truck is than the Rams were 6 years ago.

-jeff b.

 

I know. I think they will both be great engines and significant improvements over the current offerings.

There is another thread in the General Engines Forum on the 3V 5.4L some may be interested in.

 

Don't get my wrong guys. I was venting a bit when I started this thread. I will buy the new '04 Ford. The 1500 Ram could have 400 HP and do 20 MPG and I'd still but the Ford. I don't like Dodge interiors at all. Plus I know a guy with a 4.7 auto whos on his 4th tranny in 40,000 miles. Let's keep in mind the '04 trucks will have a 5 speed auto too. After reading the technical info on the New 5.4L I think Ford hit a good balance with the 3V design. And it's going to have better mileage! WOW. Dodge says the HEMI will be "as good" as the old 360. I'm sorry but the 360 was never good. It was as bad a gas pig as a truck has ever seen. (Although some 318's were worse!) If the HEMI is as good as a 360 and the 5.4L 3V is better than the current 5.4L, then Ford will have the advantage when it comes to fuel mileage. And with 300 hp and a new trick 5 sp tranny I don't think anyone will say it's underpowered.

 

Them numbers look good.

 

Just wondered where you guys are getting the information that says next year we'll have a 5-speed automatic transmission in the F150s. I haven't seen this in any official places.

Thanks!

 

Good Question. I've seen this in many places, can't remember exactly. I know it was told to dealers at the Vegas showing...

 

Ford has already stated that the 4.6, 4.2 and 6.8 are going to 3V. Not sure, but I imagine that this would change in 2005 or 06 model year.

And it looks like we are stuck with the 4.2 a little while longer. Now that the Mercury version of the Windstar will be powered by the 4.2, Ford won't discontinue it.

 

I read from FORD that the new 5.4 has more power at lower RPM's than the current engine. Even though its peak is at 5000 RPM doesn't mean its a dog at 1500. Just thought I would pass on info I have read personally. Go to the Engines Forum, it has a good detailed description of the 5.4.