Grind while shifting from 2wd to 4wd
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,248
Likes: 2
From: Rochester, NY, USA
2stroked, you are correct. You got two IWE's and a solenoid for $180???? Ford parts?
***Update!!!!
I picked up my truck fist thing this morning. Noted on the service sheet was sloenoid replacement and IWE vaccuum systems inspection for mositure.
Drove it off the dealer's lot, and when rolling about 25 mph, I engaged 4wd. Still made the irritating noise, with no change. I tried it a couple more times, and took it straight back to the dealer. My hopes that it could be fixed were all but gone.
I told them it wasn't fixed, and they had another mechanic ride with me to demonstrate the noise again. I did so, and this very polite, but young, tech started to explain to me that the noise wasn't a problem. I politely explained to him that I did have a little knowledge about how the system worked, and I knew that other trucks did not make this sound, and I don't wan't something to fail as a result of this, down the road.
He accepted my position on the matter, and he told the manager that he felt there may be unaddressed problems, and after the manager talked to the head master tech, they said they would work on it today, and see what they could find. They apologized that I had brought it twice already, with no success, and explained that they simply started with the common repair (replace solenoid) for 99% of "2004-2008 4x4 grind" jobs they see. They even offered me a loaner, but I declined, since they felt they would fix it today.
Called them back at the end of the work day today, and they had just finished it. It was still covered under warranty, since the fix that was initiated under warranty, didn't solve the issue. The master tech explained that they replaced both vaccuum IWE's, and that they successfully test drove it.
Driving it from the lot, I tested it. YAY!!!! No more whir/grind/clang when 4x4 engages! Even if I have all the windows up, radio and HVAC off, and on a smooth road, I can just barely hear and 'feel' it go into 4wd, and this is how I recall it being. I'm thrilled, and super pleased with my dealer. There is a reason that this dealer does so well, and has earned my last 3 purchases! Thanks!
***Update!!!!
I picked up my truck fist thing this morning. Noted on the service sheet was sloenoid replacement and IWE vaccuum systems inspection for mositure.
Drove it off the dealer's lot, and when rolling about 25 mph, I engaged 4wd. Still made the irritating noise, with no change. I tried it a couple more times, and took it straight back to the dealer. My hopes that it could be fixed were all but gone.
I told them it wasn't fixed, and they had another mechanic ride with me to demonstrate the noise again. I did so, and this very polite, but young, tech started to explain to me that the noise wasn't a problem. I politely explained to him that I did have a little knowledge about how the system worked, and I knew that other trucks did not make this sound, and I don't wan't something to fail as a result of this, down the road.
He accepted my position on the matter, and he told the manager that he felt there may be unaddressed problems, and after the manager talked to the head master tech, they said they would work on it today, and see what they could find. They apologized that I had brought it twice already, with no success, and explained that they simply started with the common repair (replace solenoid) for 99% of "2004-2008 4x4 grind" jobs they see. They even offered me a loaner, but I declined, since they felt they would fix it today.
Called them back at the end of the work day today, and they had just finished it. It was still covered under warranty, since the fix that was initiated under warranty, didn't solve the issue. The master tech explained that they replaced both vaccuum IWE's, and that they successfully test drove it.
Driving it from the lot, I tested it. YAY!!!! No more whir/grind/clang when 4x4 engages! Even if I have all the windows up, radio and HVAC off, and on a smooth road, I can just barely hear and 'feel' it go into 4wd, and this is how I recall it being. I'm thrilled, and super pleased with my dealer. There is a reason that this dealer does so well, and has earned my last 3 purchases! Thanks!
Glad to hear you finally got the issue fixed. The solenoid is the cheapest part to replace, so they naturally want to try that one first under warranty. I guess I can't blame them. If you see what a bad solenoid does to an IWE after a while though, you'll understand why you get all of the racket. So now you know what to do the next time this problem occurs!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 670
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From: Central Indiana
2stroked, you are correct. You got two IWE's and a solenoid for $180???? Ford parts?
***Update!!!!
I picked up my truck fist thing this morning. Noted on the service sheet was sloenoid replacement and IWE vaccuum systems inspection for mositure.
Drove it off the dealer's lot, and when rolling about 25 mph, I engaged 4wd. Still made the irritating noise, with no change. I tried it a couple more times, and took it straight back to the dealer. My hopes that it could be fixed were all but gone.
I told them it wasn't fixed, and they had another mechanic ride with me to demonstrate the noise again. I did so, and this very polite, but young, tech started to explain to me that the noise wasn't a problem. I politely explained to him that I did have a little knowledge about how the system worked, and I knew that other trucks did not make this sound, and I don't wan't something to fail as a result of this, down the road.
He accepted my position on the matter, and he told the manager that he felt there may be unaddressed problems, and after the manager talked to the head master tech, they said they would work on it today, and see what they could find. They apologized that I had brought it twice already, with no success, and explained that they simply started with the common repair (replace solenoid) for 99% of "2004-2008 4x4 grind" jobs they see. They even offered me a loaner, but I declined, since they felt they would fix it today.
Called them back at the end of the work day today, and they had just finished it. It was still covered under warranty, since the fix that was initiated under warranty, didn't solve the issue. The master tech explained that they replaced both vaccuum IWE's, and that they successfully test drove it.
Driving it from the lot, I tested it. YAY!!!! No more whir/grind/clang when 4x4 engages! Even if I have all the windows up, radio and HVAC off, and on a smooth road, I can just barely hear and 'feel' it go into 4wd, and this is how I recall it being. I'm thrilled, and super pleased with my dealer. There is a reason that this dealer does so well, and has earned my last 3 purchases! Thanks!
***Update!!!!
I picked up my truck fist thing this morning. Noted on the service sheet was sloenoid replacement and IWE vaccuum systems inspection for mositure.
Drove it off the dealer's lot, and when rolling about 25 mph, I engaged 4wd. Still made the irritating noise, with no change. I tried it a couple more times, and took it straight back to the dealer. My hopes that it could be fixed were all but gone.
I told them it wasn't fixed, and they had another mechanic ride with me to demonstrate the noise again. I did so, and this very polite, but young, tech started to explain to me that the noise wasn't a problem. I politely explained to him that I did have a little knowledge about how the system worked, and I knew that other trucks did not make this sound, and I don't wan't something to fail as a result of this, down the road.
He accepted my position on the matter, and he told the manager that he felt there may be unaddressed problems, and after the manager talked to the head master tech, they said they would work on it today, and see what they could find. They apologized that I had brought it twice already, with no success, and explained that they simply started with the common repair (replace solenoid) for 99% of "2004-2008 4x4 grind" jobs they see. They even offered me a loaner, but I declined, since they felt they would fix it today.
Called them back at the end of the work day today, and they had just finished it. It was still covered under warranty, since the fix that was initiated under warranty, didn't solve the issue. The master tech explained that they replaced both vaccuum IWE's, and that they successfully test drove it.
Driving it from the lot, I tested it. YAY!!!! No more whir/grind/clang when 4x4 engages! Even if I have all the windows up, radio and HVAC off, and on a smooth road, I can just barely hear and 'feel' it go into 4wd, and this is how I recall it being. I'm thrilled, and super pleased with my dealer. There is a reason that this dealer does so well, and has earned my last 3 purchases! Thanks!
Good to know you got it taken care of.
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 76
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From: Virginia
Good to hear your problem is fixed Jimbo. No such luck on my end. My truck still has the same issue. I got so frustrated with the dealer after 3 visits and test driving the vehicle with the service adviser. I could duplicate the problem during the test drive on command yet they still said it was normal.
That is too bad about the info you found out on the S-Spring, I was hoping that could be an easy and cheap fix. The truck is now at 37k on the odometer so the warranty is over. I wonder what I luck I might have if I went back since I took the truck in with the problem when the warranty was still in effect. I have kind of lost faith in the dealership so I doubt that will happen.
If these IWE setups are that sensitive, I guess I will just have to rely on shifting into 4wd at speeds under 10 mph. And keep an eye on those IWE solenoids.
Again congrats on getting her all fixed up!
That is too bad about the info you found out on the S-Spring, I was hoping that could be an easy and cheap fix. The truck is now at 37k on the odometer so the warranty is over. I wonder what I luck I might have if I went back since I took the truck in with the problem when the warranty was still in effect. I have kind of lost faith in the dealership so I doubt that will happen.
If these IWE setups are that sensitive, I guess I will just have to rely on shifting into 4wd at speeds under 10 mph. And keep an eye on those IWE solenoids.
Again congrats on getting her all fixed up!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Originally Posted by TN-F150
That's good to hear. Stroked is right, if you have a solenoid go out and you hear the noise, it's already too late to save the actuators.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Good to hear your problem is fixed Jimbo. No such luck on my end. My truck still has the same issue. I got so frustrated with the dealer after 3 visits and test driving the vehicle with the service adviser. I could duplicate the problem during the test drive on command yet they still said it was normal.
That is too bad about the info you found out on the S-Spring, I was hoping that could be an easy and cheap fix. The truck is now at 37k on the odometer so the warranty is over. I wonder what I luck I might have if I went back since I took the truck in with the problem when the warranty was still in effect. I have kind of lost faith in the dealership so I doubt that will happen.
If these IWE setups are that sensitive, I guess I will just have to rely on shifting into 4wd at speeds under 10 mph. And keep an eye on those IWE solenoids.
Again congrats on getting her all fixed up!
That is too bad about the info you found out on the S-Spring, I was hoping that could be an easy and cheap fix. The truck is now at 37k on the odometer so the warranty is over. I wonder what I luck I might have if I went back since I took the truck in with the problem when the warranty was still in effect. I have kind of lost faith in the dealership so I doubt that will happen.
If these IWE setups are that sensitive, I guess I will just have to rely on shifting into 4wd at speeds under 10 mph. And keep an eye on those IWE solenoids.
Again congrats on getting her all fixed up!
Did you replace the solenoid and both the IWE's, and still have the grind when 4wd engages? Sorry to hear that you couldn't get yours ironed out. I would bet you won't get anywhere with the warranty either. When it looked like mine wasn't going to get repaired, I took the same attitude as you....just engage the 4wd when stopped, or at very low speeds, to minimze any further damage, since 4wd did work afterall. Thats irritating, but should work out for you. Plus, if it fails all together, it sounds like the cost and difficulty isn't all that great in replacing the damaged parts.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 390
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From: Chester County, PA
Just for the hell of it... if you report an issue under warranty and they can't find something... and then after the warranty expires it finally "breaks", then you just take the original work order back to them and show them that you had reported the problem under warranty. If the service manager gives you a hard time, ask him to confer with the regional service manager about covering the issue under warranty.
Just make sure you keep your paperwork. I believe the regional service manager is the only one that can approve post-warranty repairs in these types of situations... and sometimes it takes some effort to nudge the service manager to take the next step.
Just make sure you keep your paperwork. I believe the regional service manager is the only one that can approve post-warranty repairs in these types of situations... and sometimes it takes some effort to nudge the service manager to take the next step.
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 76
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From: Virginia
s27payne, good to see you still check in here. I was going to email you a link to this updated thread, in case it may help you.
Did you replace the solenoid and both the IWE's, and still have the grind when 4wd engages? Sorry to hear that you couldn't get yours ironed out. I would bet you won't get anywhere with the warranty either. When it looked like mine wasn't going to get repaired, I took the same attitude as you....just engage the 4wd when stopped, or at very low speeds, to minimze any further damage, since 4wd did work afterall. Thats irritating, but should work out for you. Plus, if it fails all together, it sounds like the cost and difficulty isn't all that great in replacing the damaged parts.
Did you replace the solenoid and both the IWE's, and still have the grind when 4wd engages? Sorry to hear that you couldn't get yours ironed out. I would bet you won't get anywhere with the warranty either. When it looked like mine wasn't going to get repaired, I took the same attitude as you....just engage the 4wd when stopped, or at very low speeds, to minimze any further damage, since 4wd did work afterall. Thats irritating, but should work out for you. Plus, if it fails all together, it sounds like the cost and difficulty isn't all that great in replacing the damaged parts.
The dealership only replaced the one IWE solenoid. Not sure which one either, just checked repair order and it does not specify. I never heard anything while driving in 2WD so I really do not think the IWE was damaged. The problem only surfaced when shifting from 2-4WD. As you experienced with your dealership, the solenoid is the problem 99% of the time. Did you see the parts when they came off truck to verify the parts were damaged or did they tell you there was actual damage to the IWE components?
It would be interesting to hear back from you in another 10-20k miles just to see if your problem returns. Could it be because your parts are new (with no wear) everything is nice and tight and axle shafts are spinning closer to the same speed? I still think both your issue and mine are associated with a different half axle speeds. Just curious to know if maybe they just replaced some more parts on your truck because they could not think of anything else.
Question for you and others who may have done an IWE replacement: Did they just replace the the IWE actuator (the part with the vacuum actuated collar that couples the inboard axle half with the outboard axle in the wheel hub?
Is it safe to assume when an IWE is damaged, the damaged is contained to the disconnect collar? Or are people also experiencing damage to either axle end. Again just curious because folks have been quoting prices to fix in the $100 range. The actuator assembly is a relatively small part so I can understand the small price tag. If IWE solenoids are failing and causing things to grind, one might expect both parts to suffer damage. If the disconnect collar is of an inferior metal than the axles themselves, maybe damage is contained to the collar. This could be a good thing as is would be hard imagine replacing an axle or a wheel hub assemble for a hundred bucks.
The funny thing about the IWE (designed by Warn Industries by the way, here is one of the press releases http://www.warn.com/corporate/press_...e_052004.shtml) is that one of the greatest benefits is to improve gas mileage since there are less parts turning when in 2WD. My gas mileage is around 12mpg. I do not think they succeeded! (insert sarcastic icon here).
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,248
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From: Rochester, NY, USA
I can't speak for everybody else, but I replaced the IWE's - which I believe you called the IWE Actualtors - and the solenoid. The IWE is what actuates the locking of your half shafts to the actual wheel hub so you are driving it from the transfer case. (It's kind of like what your manual locking hubs did, only these do it automatically - and aren't as reliable.)
For those of you experiencing a grinding while driving in 2WD, as TN F150 has said, that's either the solenoid not totally unlocking the hubs, or a bad solenoid that has worn the IWE's where they engage the half shafts. That's the grinding you here where the splines just won't go through the teeth in the IWE.
In my particular case, I had no grinding in 2WD. When I tried to actuate 4WD though, I got lots of grinding, then sometimes 4WD. Sometimes it would lock one hub and other times it just wouldn't lock either hub. So, I decided not to mess around and replaced everything. The teeth on one IWE looked pretty well hosed. The other just wouldn't budge / actuate. Now, I just get a slight thunk and both hubs lock. Very important now that slippery boat ramp season is here!
For those of you experiencing a grinding while driving in 2WD, as TN F150 has said, that's either the solenoid not totally unlocking the hubs, or a bad solenoid that has worn the IWE's where they engage the half shafts. That's the grinding you here where the splines just won't go through the teeth in the IWE.
In my particular case, I had no grinding in 2WD. When I tried to actuate 4WD though, I got lots of grinding, then sometimes 4WD. Sometimes it would lock one hub and other times it just wouldn't lock either hub. So, I decided not to mess around and replaced everything. The teeth on one IWE looked pretty well hosed. The other just wouldn't budge / actuate. Now, I just get a slight thunk and both hubs lock. Very important now that slippery boat ramp season is here!
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 134
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
my truck makes a small noise when shifting into 4x4...
it isn't very loud but I feel it takes 1-2 seconds to completely shift into 4x4. This is my first 4x4 vehicle and I always assumed it was normal.
it isn't very loud but I feel it takes 1-2 seconds to completely shift into 4x4. This is my first 4x4 vehicle and I always assumed it was normal.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 188
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From: Illinois
This is a great forum with tons of knowledgeable people and information. I get more factual information here than I do from any dealership. Sometimes I may go for a few weeks without checking into this forum but as long as I have a Ford I will use this forum to hear others share their experiences.
The dealership only replaced the one IWE solenoid. Not sure which one either, just checked repair order and it does not specify. I never heard anything while driving in 2WD so I really do not think the IWE was damaged. The problem only surfaced when shifting from 2-4WD. As you experienced with your dealership, the solenoid is the problem 99% of the time. Did you see the parts when they came off truck to verify the parts were damaged or did they tell you there was actual damage to the IWE components?
It would be interesting to hear back from you in another 10-20k miles just to see if your problem returns. Could it be because your parts are new (with no wear) everything is nice and tight and axle shafts are spinning closer to the same speed? I still think both your issue and mine are associated with a different half axle speeds. Just curious to know if maybe they just replaced some more parts on your truck because they could not think of anything else.
Question for you and others who may have done an IWE replacement: Did they just replace the the IWE actuator (the part with the vacuum actuated collar that couples the inboard axle half with the outboard axle in the wheel hub?
Is it safe to assume when an IWE is damaged, the damaged is contained to the disconnect collar? Or are people also experiencing damage to either axle end. Again just curious because folks have been quoting prices to fix in the $100 range. The actuator assembly is a relatively small part so I can understand the small price tag. If IWE solenoids are failing and causing things to grind, one might expect both parts to suffer damage. If the disconnect collar is of an inferior metal than the axles themselves, maybe damage is contained to the collar. This could be a good thing as is would be hard imagine replacing an axle or a wheel hub assemble for a hundred bucks.
The funny thing about the IWE (designed by Warn Industries by the way, here is one of the press releases http://www.warn.com/corporate/press_...e_052004.shtml) is that one of the greatest benefits is to improve gas mileage since there are less parts turning when in 2WD. My gas mileage is around 12mpg. I do not think they succeeded! (insert sarcastic icon here).
The dealership only replaced the one IWE solenoid. Not sure which one either, just checked repair order and it does not specify. I never heard anything while driving in 2WD so I really do not think the IWE was damaged. The problem only surfaced when shifting from 2-4WD. As you experienced with your dealership, the solenoid is the problem 99% of the time. Did you see the parts when they came off truck to verify the parts were damaged or did they tell you there was actual damage to the IWE components?
It would be interesting to hear back from you in another 10-20k miles just to see if your problem returns. Could it be because your parts are new (with no wear) everything is nice and tight and axle shafts are spinning closer to the same speed? I still think both your issue and mine are associated with a different half axle speeds. Just curious to know if maybe they just replaced some more parts on your truck because they could not think of anything else.
Question for you and others who may have done an IWE replacement: Did they just replace the the IWE actuator (the part with the vacuum actuated collar that couples the inboard axle half with the outboard axle in the wheel hub?
Is it safe to assume when an IWE is damaged, the damaged is contained to the disconnect collar? Or are people also experiencing damage to either axle end. Again just curious because folks have been quoting prices to fix in the $100 range. The actuator assembly is a relatively small part so I can understand the small price tag. If IWE solenoids are failing and causing things to grind, one might expect both parts to suffer damage. If the disconnect collar is of an inferior metal than the axles themselves, maybe damage is contained to the collar. This could be a good thing as is would be hard imagine replacing an axle or a wheel hub assemble for a hundred bucks.
The funny thing about the IWE (designed by Warn Industries by the way, here is one of the press releases http://www.warn.com/corporate/press_...e_052004.shtml) is that one of the greatest benefits is to improve gas mileage since there are less parts turning when in 2WD. My gas mileage is around 12mpg. I do not think they succeeded! (insert sarcastic icon here).
I didn't see the old IWE's or the solenoid that came off my truck. In fact, I don't even have any paperwork. I had a work sheet after the first visit, but handed it back after the solenoid didn't fix it, so they would have all my info again. I know they did replace both IWE's and the solenoid...I looked at the insides of the front wheels, and sure enough, the IWE housings were new and sparkly on both sides.
I'm not sure what caused my issue. I suspect some event that caused one or both IWE's to be damaged (maybe a faulty solenoid or something the previous owner did), and from then on, I had further grinding and damage each time it went into 4wd.
I would expect that replacing both IWE assemblies and the solenoid, would fix your truck, s27payne. I think I did read somewhere, maybe on TN-150's thread, that the IWE's are in fact made of a softer material than the hub, so damage is typically limited to the replaceable IWE unit.
I will update this as I accrue more miles.
*Another thing to consider, is tire circumference. While this didn't affect my issue (that I know of), it is something I read about, that can cause issues with 4wd engaging. If one of your tires is significantly larger than the others, this can cause sync issues between the front wheels, or between the front and rear axles. When I purchased my truck, both front, the left rear, and the spare had 30,000 miles on them, with about 1/3 tread left. The one on the right rear, looked brand new. That tire had to be a bit taller than the rest. In the spirit of getting my truck fixed, I went ahead and had a tire shop flip my spare and right rear tires on the rims, so I am running all tires of equal tread wear, and thus equal circumference. If nothing else, it will prevent the rear diff from turning constantly when cruising.
Last edited by Jimbo45; May 17, 2009 at 02:22 AM.
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Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 76
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From: Virginia
They just did the solenoid up the firewall. Nothing underneath the truck on the axle. A couple of guys on the forum have posted some pretty good info on replacing the IWEs. I will have to star digging into those. If I could change one out for a hundred bucks, it would be worth pursuing.
The backup vehicle is a 1992 Jeep. She does not get driven much so putting the truck out of service for a few days would give her some much needed attention as the primary vehicle.
The backup vehicle is a 1992 Jeep. She does not get driven much so putting the truck out of service for a few days would give her some much needed attention as the primary vehicle.