Any one ever notice...?
Originally Posted by Dribone
2 situations, both monitored by the edge programmer:
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 88 degrees
intake air temp @ 94 degrees
and the truck ran sluggish
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 38 degrees
intake air temp @ 40 degrees
the truck ran as crisp as when its first started in the morning.
you can derive the water temp from the cylinder head temp, but i see the air temp as the factor.
and for everyone whos against a closed box system, i ran my volant with the top off and on and it ran an average of 12-14 degrees hotter with the top off.
didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, just givin you guys more information to play with.
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 88 degrees
intake air temp @ 94 degrees
and the truck ran sluggish
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 38 degrees
intake air temp @ 40 degrees
the truck ran as crisp as when its first started in the morning.
you can derive the water temp from the cylinder head temp, but i see the air temp as the factor.
and for everyone whos against a closed box system, i ran my volant with the top off and on and it ran an average of 12-14 degrees hotter with the top off.
didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, just givin you guys more information to play with.
Originally Posted by Dribone
2 situations, both monitored by the edge programmer:
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 88 degrees
intake air temp @ 94 degrees
and the truck ran sluggish
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 38 degrees
intake air temp @ 40 degrees
the truck ran as crisp as when its first started in the morning.
you can derive the water temp from the cylinder head temp, but i see the air temp as the factor.
and for everyone whos against a closed box system, i ran my volant with the top off and on and it ran an average of 12-14 degrees hotter with the top off.
didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, just givin you guys more information to play with.
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 88 degrees
intake air temp @ 94 degrees
and the truck ran sluggish
cylinder head temp @ 190 degrees
outside air temp @ 38 degrees
intake air temp @ 40 degrees
the truck ran as crisp as when its first started in the morning.
you can derive the water temp from the cylinder head temp, but i see the air temp as the factor.
and for everyone whos against a closed box system, i ran my volant with the top off and on and it ran an average of 12-14 degrees hotter with the top off.
didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, just givin you guys more information to play with.
Dri..
you have some valid points.. but no matter what the intake temp was or outside temp, ive notice the truck is more lively when it at the lower running temps...
My t-stat should be here tomorrow.
The 4.6l 2v CHT does run at the same temp as the coolant.
The 5.4l 3v CHT will however run ~10* above the inferred coolant temp. (because of the actively changing cam angles)
The temp layout is roughly 30*
130-160-190-220-250.
Also remember we have a cooling failsafe mode around 250 that will shut down 4 cylinders and the engine will act as an air pump.
The 4.6l 2v CHT does run at the same temp as the coolant.
The 5.4l 3v CHT will however run ~10* above the inferred coolant temp. (because of the actively changing cam angles)
The temp layout is roughly 30*
130-160-190-220-250.
Also remember we have a cooling failsafe mode around 250 that will shut down 4 cylinders and the engine will act as an air pump.
Originally Posted by i.ride.suzuki
My t-stat should be here tomorrow.
The 4.6l 2v CHT does run at the same temp as the coolant.
The 5.4l 3v CHT will however run ~10* above the inferred coolant temp. (because of the actively changing cam angles)
The temp layout is roughly 30*
130-160-190-220-250.
Also remember we have a cooling failsafe mode around 250 that will shut down 4 cylinders and the engine will act as an air pump.
The 4.6l 2v CHT does run at the same temp as the coolant.
The 5.4l 3v CHT will however run ~10* above the inferred coolant temp. (because of the actively changing cam angles)
The temp layout is roughly 30*
130-160-190-220-250.
Also remember we have a cooling failsafe mode around 250 that will shut down 4 cylinders and the engine will act as an air pump.
which one did oyu order?
btw here are the restrictors i used the gold one
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
btw im not responsible for any over heating or underheating problems for mods you do to your truck im just stating what i did
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
btw im not responsible for any over heating or underheating problems for mods you do to your truck im just stating what i did
Originally Posted by azmidget91
so i just put a 5/8" restrictor in place of my thermostat
drum roll please........
my new operating temps are
150*!!!!!


thats right the stock guage is just a hair over the 1/4 mark
drum roll please........
my new operating temps are
150*!!!!!


thats right the stock guage is just a hair over the 1/4 mark
Originally Posted by weazel
Has anyone ever notice that while your truck is warming up, that at at temp of like 150-170ish that is runs stronger. I was wonder if you were to change out the thermo stat would it bring the temps down? And then you could run at those lower temps were the truck runs stronger? If im not mistaking i think I.Ride.Suzuki. suggested using the 4.6 thermo stat.
swapped the t-stat and fan temp switch (electric fan) on my wife's import car to -17deg from stock and it DID make a difference. no emissions testing where we lived (at that time), so i dont know if running cooler would effect that or not...my guess would be yes.
From a purely mechanical engineering point of view, the larger the temp difference b/t the incoming air and the engine, the greater the performance increase.
M. Troyer has said that
and
- NCSU
M. Troyer has said that
The ideal operating temperature for automatic transmission fluid in these newer Fords is 170 degrees, with peaks to 190 or so. It needs to reach at least 125 to do it's best job.
Ideal engine coolant temperature is around 200 degrees. Some like it as high as 210 even, and in many factory electric cooling fan setups (which these vehicles don't have), the high speed fan doesn't even come on until 228 degrees! It's at about 200 degrees that we see maximum power and best mileage, as a loose general "rule."
The ECU also needs to see a certain coolant temperature (usually 190 degrees) as well as the O2 sensors need to see certain temperatures (which range from roughly 450-600 degrees) to go closed-loop, which is when the ECU actually "listens" to the O2 sensor fedback for air/fuel ratio adjustment on the fly. This is when you get your best mileage, as the vast majority of driving is done on part-throttle, at less than heavy to full-throttle. So if it's going closed-loop late, or not nearly as often or for as long as you should, then mpg will certainly drop.
Yes, a too-low coolant temp. can cause problems like that, as it will cause the ECU to not go closed-loop as soon as it should, and in some cases, not at all. The factory thermostat **usually** doesn't open until higher than the temperature you're seeing, they're usually in the 190-194 degree range. I do need to point out that I don't have the exact temp for your model year memorized or a service manual in front of me at the moment, so your ECU might be able to go closed-loop below 190, but usually they require about 190 degrees of coolant temperature. So yes, it does sound like you could be a little too cool.
To get to the heart of the issue, when the motor is cooler, the ECU will automatically add in more timing, it will do that with cooler IAT's (inlet air temperature) as well as lower coolant temperatures, and that along with the Superchip could potentially be enough to push it into detonation, and will not help mileage.
It sounds like we should go over a number of things here to properly troubleshoot this. For example, it would be a good idea to verify that coolant temp reading with a scan tool, and read the coolant temp that the ECU is actually seeing. If it really is below 190 degrees, then get that t-stat changed to bring the coolant temperature up, and that be all it takes to solve the problem, of low mpg as well as the detonation issue, we could get "lucky" here and that be all there is to it, only time will tell.
Very interesting situation we have here, actually, as it will take a bit of troubleshooting to find the actual culprit. However, that will be extremely simple. Just connect a scan tool to your OBD-II port (under the dash to the right of the driver's knee) and verify the coolant tempterature being seen by the system to double-check the accuracy of your new coolant temp. gauge. If it's below 190, change out the t-stat, once coolant temps are routinely above 190 that should take care of the mpg issue, and may quell the detonation as well due to the ECU not adding in more timing from the lower coolant temp. Maybe. I don't know if for your driving and local fuel quality the mpg you're seeing may be normal. We'll just have to see what happens as you do each step of troubleshooting, and as you check mpg results over time in addition to the detonation issue; luckily this is a very easy project, all it will take is a few minutes with a scan tool to verify temps seen by the system, and then a t-stat change if it's really running that cool.
The ECU also needs to see a certain coolant temperature (usually 190 degrees) as well as the O2 sensors need to see certain temperatures (which range from roughly 450-600 degrees) to go closed-loop, which is when the ECU actually "listens" to the O2 sensor fedback for air/fuel ratio adjustment on the fly. This is when you get your best mileage, as the vast majority of driving is done on part-throttle, at less than heavy to full-throttle. So if it's going closed-loop late, or not nearly as often or for as long as you should, then mpg will certainly drop.
Yes, a too-low coolant temp. can cause problems like that, as it will cause the ECU to not go closed-loop as soon as it should, and in some cases, not at all. The factory thermostat **usually** doesn't open until higher than the temperature you're seeing, they're usually in the 190-194 degree range. I do need to point out that I don't have the exact temp for your model year memorized or a service manual in front of me at the moment, so your ECU might be able to go closed-loop below 190, but usually they require about 190 degrees of coolant temperature. So yes, it does sound like you could be a little too cool.
To get to the heart of the issue, when the motor is cooler, the ECU will automatically add in more timing, it will do that with cooler IAT's (inlet air temperature) as well as lower coolant temperatures, and that along with the Superchip could potentially be enough to push it into detonation, and will not help mileage.
It sounds like we should go over a number of things here to properly troubleshoot this. For example, it would be a good idea to verify that coolant temp reading with a scan tool, and read the coolant temp that the ECU is actually seeing. If it really is below 190 degrees, then get that t-stat changed to bring the coolant temperature up, and that be all it takes to solve the problem, of low mpg as well as the detonation issue, we could get "lucky" here and that be all there is to it, only time will tell.
Very interesting situation we have here, actually, as it will take a bit of troubleshooting to find the actual culprit. However, that will be extremely simple. Just connect a scan tool to your OBD-II port (under the dash to the right of the driver's knee) and verify the coolant tempterature being seen by the system to double-check the accuracy of your new coolant temp. gauge. If it's below 190, change out the t-stat, once coolant temps are routinely above 190 that should take care of the mpg issue, and may quell the detonation as well due to the ECU not adding in more timing from the lower coolant temp. Maybe. I don't know if for your driving and local fuel quality the mpg you're seeing may be normal. We'll just have to see what happens as you do each step of troubleshooting, and as you check mpg results over time in addition to the detonation issue; luckily this is a very easy project, all it will take is a few minutes with a scan tool to verify temps seen by the system, and then a t-stat change if it's really running that cool.
no need to go that low. i wish i had a more credible source, but this is from Troyer's website:
mportant Note:
Gasoline engines generally make their absolute highest power output and get the best fuel mileage when the engine coolant temperature is in the 200-210 degree range. This is why your stock factory thermostat is generally a 192 degree unit, and why we recommend sticking with it in most cases. If you are doing any kind racing, or if you need to tow heavy loads in hot weather, etc., you can drop down to a 180 degree thermostat if you like & simply set the electric fan turn-on temperatures accordingly, thanks to the flexibility provided in this kit. We recommend that you DO NOT use any thermostat rated at lower than 180 degrees in these computer-controlled vehicles, or you will not get the best power or fuel economy, and might even experience driveability symptoms, MIL lights on the dash, loss of heater function in cold weather, etc.
proper temperatures need to be maintained to achieve complete combustion. complete combustion = more power/better mileage. i'd leave it alone.
mportant Note:
Gasoline engines generally make their absolute highest power output and get the best fuel mileage when the engine coolant temperature is in the 200-210 degree range. This is why your stock factory thermostat is generally a 192 degree unit, and why we recommend sticking with it in most cases. If you are doing any kind racing, or if you need to tow heavy loads in hot weather, etc., you can drop down to a 180 degree thermostat if you like & simply set the electric fan turn-on temperatures accordingly, thanks to the flexibility provided in this kit. We recommend that you DO NOT use any thermostat rated at lower than 180 degrees in these computer-controlled vehicles, or you will not get the best power or fuel economy, and might even experience driveability symptoms, MIL lights on the dash, loss of heater function in cold weather, etc.
proper temperatures need to be maintained to achieve complete combustion. complete combustion = more power/better mileage. i'd leave it alone.
wow i really doubt that these engines make max power at 200* let alone all gas engines, ive been racing cars since i was 5 and a rule of thumb was dont run over 200* we wanted to be between 140-180
now i dont know about you guys but i feel a much bigger increase in power between water temps then when i put on my jlt intake and xcal2.....
now i dont know about you guys but i feel a much bigger increase in power between water temps then when i put on my jlt intake and xcal2.....




