Well its time to get a rotation and balance done after 13k. I have been advised to get a roadforce balance done on my stock 20s and pirellis scorpions. However at 100 bucks it seems costly just for a balance.
Any opinions or helpfull insight?

 

It depends on the ride that you have now. Do you feel any vibration or shimmy in the tires now? If so then it can definitely help to smooth it out.

On a minor rant and not aimed at you, the Pirellis are one of the worst tires I have ever experienced to try to balance even brand new. I had the balanced with less than 8000 miles on them and 1 of them was out of specs so bad they had to replace it and 2 more were on the outer limits of the specs and would not true up completely. Thye tires do seem to handle well and wear well but they flatspot quickly and do not balance well at all. That combined with the IFS on these trucks makes it very difficult to get a smooth ride with these tires. I would NEVER recommend to someone to put these tires on anything if they have an option.

 

I have never had a problem with mine. The ride is fine.

 

Most mechanics I know, say roadforce balancing is for the idiots who don't how to properly balance tires, no matter what size or rims they may be dealing with.

 

ive been in the aftermarket wheel and tire industry for about 6 years now and this is one of the most truthful statements ive ever read

i would say once every 4-6 months theres a set of tires that has to be force matched to ride well, and that time span may be a little generous

 

There is a TSB for a steering wheel nibble at 65 mph for all 04-08 F-150's that if the condition exists you are to use a road force balancer to correct the problem so it must not be totally worthless.



TSB 07-10-8 STEERING WHEEL VIBRATION AT 50 MPH (80 KM/H) OR HIGHER - STEERING WHEEL NIBBLE AT 65 MPH (105 KM/H) OR HIGHER

Publication Date: May 9, 2007

FORD: 2004-2008 F-150
LINCOLN: 2006-2008 Mark LT


This article supersedes TSB 06-12-2 to update the vehicle model years.

ISSUE:
Some 2004-2008 F-150 and 2006-2008 Mark LT vehicles (excluding F-150 Heritage) may exhibit a vehicle/steering wheel vibration (not nibble) at 50 MPH (80 Km/h) or higher, or a steering wheel nibble (side-to-side or rotational oscillation) at 65 MPH (105 Km/h) or higher.

ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Refer to the Diagnostic Overview (Figure 1). Based on the customer's description of the concern, find the appropriate Operating Condition, Probable Cause, and Repair Action.

NOTE: IT IS CRITICAL TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC VEHICLE SPEEDS AND OPERATING CONDITIONS WHEN THE VIBRATION OR NIBBLE IS OCCURRING, TO PROPERLY DIAGNOSE AND REPAIR THE ISSUE. TIRE AND DRIVELINE VIBRATION CAN FEEL SIMILAR. USE OF AN ELECTRONIC VIBRATION ANALYZER (EVA) OR VETRONIX VIBRATION ANALYZER IS RECOMMENDED TO CORRECTLY IDENTIFY VIBRATION SOURCES (ORDERS) AND FREQUENCY (HZ).

NOTE: NIBBLE CANNOT BE ELIMINATED WITHOUT ADDRESSING PROPER TIRE AND WHEEL BALANCE.

Drive the vehicle at highway speeds for at least 20 miles (32 km) to eliminate flat spotting. Install an EVA or Vetronix vibration analyzer and have an assistant monitor and record the reading near the end of the 20 mile (32 km) drive and while at the peak of the vibration. Proceed to Step 2 for 4X4 vehicles and directly to Step 3 for 4X2 vehicles.
NOTE: IF NOT DRIVEN TO REMOVE FLAT SPOTS, THE TIRE BALANCE AND ROAD FORCE MEASUREMENTS MAY BE INACCURATE.

NOTE: IF THE VIBRATION GOES AWAY DURING THE 20 MILE DRIVE, THE CONCERN IS DUE TO TIRE FLAT SPOTTING WHICH IS A NORMAL TIRE CONDITION. NO FURTHER DIAGNOSIS OR REPAIRS SHOULD BE PERFORMED.

Check the integrated wheel end (IWE) on 4X4 units. Raise the front of the vehicle (wheels off the ground), engine running, and vehicle in 2WD mode. The front half shafts should not turn when wheels are rotated by hand. If the IWE is functioning correctly proceed to Step 3. If not, refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 308-07 to repair IWE first. Then proceed to Step 3.
If road force measurement equipment (Hunter GSP9700/9712, or equivalent) is available, proceed to Step 4. If not, refer to TSB 07-4-5 for using a dial indicator to optimize tire/wheel run-out. After optimizing tire/wheel run-out, proceed to Step 6.
NOTE: THE PROCEDURE IN THIS TSB IS FAR MORE EFFECTIVE WHEN USING ROAD FORCE MEASUREMENT EQUIPMENT. ONLY USE A STANDARD BALANCER AND MANUALLY CHECK RUN OUT WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. THERE IS A WEBSITE AVAILABLE (WWW.GSP9700.COM) TO LOCATE THE NEAREST FACILITY THAT HAS THIS TYPE OF EQUIPMENT.

NOTE: SUPPRESS ROUND OFF FUNCTION ON ROAD FORCE BALANCER TO ALLOW ACTUAL RESIDUALS TO BE DISPLAYED.

Perform the road force measurement immediately after driving the vehicle. Remove the wheel cover and wheel assembly. Measure the road force variation of all four (4) tires. Measure and mark the tire HIGH road force variation point (R1H) on all four (4) tires prior to dismounting them from the road force measurement equipment. Balance as required to 0.35 oz. (10g) or less of imbalance (check both two-plane and static). If any wheel assembly measures more than the values listed in the chart below for R1H, refer to TSB 07-4-5 for tire/wheel run-out diagnostics. If a tire/wheel assembly can not be brought within the R1H values listed in the chart using TSB 07-4-5, replace the tire and re-check. If less than the values listed, proceed to Step 5.

Tire Type R1H
P Metric Tires 25 lbs.
LT Tires 35 lbs.

Install the lowest R1H level tires on the front of the vehicle.
Position all tire/wheel assemblies on the hubs with the high R1H point, or high tire centerline radial run out point, at the 12:00 position (Figure 2).

 

you can balance a brick, not saying it will go down the road smooth... thats why they invented the road force balancer.

 

Hey JD, I had that same nibble for a while, and had read alot of people went with the roadforce balance for what seemed to be nothing more than a very short temporary fix. I did not do a force balance but instead replaced the oem balljoints (they had some play in them) and rebalanced the tires all the way around, and not a roadforce balance either. Well, nibble has been gone for some time now and I did post this in another thread about the nibble. So for me the force balancing doesn't hold any weight.

 

If anything is it the crappy stock General tires that are causing the problems!! lol

 

That's why I put a set of BFGs on mine the day after I bought it!

 

Always wondered about this myself. After mucho searching and a little luck found some info by someone who helped design the machine.
Without elaborating, there is no perfectly round wheel or tire. The road force puts a force on the wheel/tire and measures where the high spot is on each. If the number is less than 25 pounds it flys. Otherwise they mount high spots 90 degrees apart to cancel the effects.(which will feel like an unbalanced wheel)
He said all new cars are road force balanced from factory.
Also said most tire shops are fairly misinformed about what is going on.
RF for sure with new tires.

 

my 4x2 had this issue with OEM BFG long trails...i mention the tires as FYI, i dunno if it was the truck, tires, idiots at my stealership's service dept or a combo of 'all of the above'. the truck began cupping the front tires before the 3,000 mile point. we had an '07 XL std cab at work that began cupping at less than 800 miles and what prompted me to look at my own tires, so no telling when this all started.

I took it in, the dealer had the truck for 4 days, says they had to isolate vibration from driveshaft, lots of other testing, etc. it wasnt until day 4 with the truck that they mentioned the TSB and it was road-forced balanced...upon a test drive it pulled to the left, so they road-force balanced it again.

when i got it back the thing was WORSE! the shimmy in the steering wheel was worse and even the front seat backs would shake from 65mph and up at the 9K mi point i could not take it anymore and traded it for the 4X4. the new truck rides smooth as silk, it did with the OEM Hankooks and with the Goodyears i have on there now.

 

its actually a little more complicated that that. first 90 degrees apart isnt going to cancel them out. theoretically you want them 180 degrees apart to cancel them out. but theres more than just high spots. the machine measure the road force as well as the lateral and radial runout of both the wheel and tire and determines where to rotate the tire on the wheel to cancel all three in the most effective manner, many times it is not the true 180 degrees. it will also tell you whether or not the tire will work on the wheel your trying to mount it on or even if rotating the tire on the wheel will bring the assembly into spec

but there is the problem. 99.99% of tire technicians out there will just throw the tire on the wheel, air it up to spec, balance it to zero, and throw it on the truck. most of them dont have the knowledge, patience, or just flat out dont take the time to do it correctly. just about every tire out there will ride smooth as glass if they are mounted on the wheel and balanced correctly. a generous amount of quality bead lube must be applied to the entire bead area of both the wheel and the tire. mount the tire on the wheel and slowly air it up until both beads seat and unclamp the assembly from the machine. here is a step often skipped that can have tremendous results. air up the tire to roughly 65 pounds of air and set it aside for about 5 minutes. this amount of air inside the tire will force the beads to relax onto the wheel and allow them to fully and uniformly seat around the wheel. then drop the tire down to the spec psi. the next step often skipped is watching the tire on the balancer. too many times techs will spin the tire and bs with their coworkers. watching the tire can give you a great idea of whether or not the tire needs to be turned on the wheel or whether or not it was even installed correctly on the wheel.

just fyi my 325/60/18's all road forced over 30#s with two over 50. smooth as silk up to 90+ mph. but hey if you feel droppig 150-200 bucks to have your tires road forced is the only way to get them to ride correctly, have at it

 

Just took in my 2008 F-150 Lariat 4X4 with the same complaint, shimmy in the 60 - 70 mph range.

Dealer (Koon's Ford Annapolis) did a Force Balance which improved the balance from "20 to 5" whatever that means. But the shimmy remained.

The dealer is going to install a "dampening kit" which is being shipped overnight. I will report on the outcome tomorrow.

 

Unless you have VERY GOOD reason to believe your problem (if you are even having a problem with the way the truck drives) is related to the tires/wheels, its a waste of time/money.

Maybe if you have access to one for free and have some time to ***** around with it if you want stuff amazingly perfect...otherwise, no, dont do it just because a shop recommended it to make a little more money or something.

Why did someone recommend you get them RF Balanced in the first place? Just for shlits and giggles?