Just curious, what would happen if you ran E85 in an engine that isn't designed for it? Anyone know? I would think it would eat up anything in the fuel system made out of rubber.

KC-10 FE out...

 

I can't speak for the fuel lines, but the engine will run a lot leaner (how lean? Possibly-damaging-the-engine-lean if ran for an extended period), misfire, never go into closed loop, get lousy fuel mileage, and all other kinds of nastiness. Don't run E85 in your engine if it's not outfitted for it.

 

This is from the government's web site

"A flexible fueled vehicle (FFV) has a single fuel tank, fuel system, and engine. The vehicle is designed to run on unleaded gasoline and an alcohol fuel (usually ethanol) in any mixture. The engine and fuel system in a flex-fuel vehicle must be adapted slightly to run on alcohol fuels because they are corrosive. There must also be a special sensor in the fuel line to analyze the fuel mixture and control the fuel injection and timing to adjust for different fuel compositions. The flex-fuel vehicle offers its owner an environmentally beneficial option whenever the alternative fuel is available.

Flex-fuel technology was created by Ford Motor Company in the mid-1980s. Flexible fueled vehicles (also called variable fuel vehicles) have been produced by Ford (Ranger, Crown Victoria and Taurus), GM (Chevy S-10 and GMC Sonoma), and Daimler-Chrysler (Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan)."

Not really sure how "corrosive" ETOH is on rubber, after all this is the same as the alcohol that we drink. As an experiment, get three styrofoam cups, put gasoline in one, diesel in another, and Everclear (which is 100% ETOH) in the thrid. Observe what happens to the styrofoam cups. You will see that gasoline and diesel eat right through. Also E85 is 15% gasoline and 85% ETOH. I bet that the special sensor in the fuel system that allows the engine to regulate fuel mixture and timing would be essential. Without this I'd imagine that your engine would run, but very rough. Not really sure if I would want to see the performance in my 5400# F150 burning a fuel that has 20% less energy.

Yea, I'm all for supporting our farmers with a home-grown product, but I live in Texas and let me tell you that there are alot of Red, White, and Blue boys and girls working in the oil production/refinement industries.

Ox

 

A couple questions I have.

My '06 is a FFV. Let's say I fill up with E85 and need to refuel, but can't find a station with E85 (there are only 4 or 5 stations in all of Utah right now). Can I fill up with good old unleaded gasoline? I am wondering how this all works. I am very interested in this because there are some state tax incentives that I would love to get my hands on (I need to check for federal tax incentives too) not to mention the fact that I would love to be less dependant on foreign oil.

How does the cost of a gallon of E85 compare to the cost of a gallon of 85 octane gasoline (85 is the low grade in Utah instead of 87 octane).

 

One more question to add to this topic.

I want to buy the Edge programmer. Will I be throwing my money out the window buy purchasing it if I use E85? Will it work with E85 (are there settings for the fuel)?

 

Styrophome is not rubber though. My bet is alcohol would dry the rubber components it passes through out over time.

 

previous quote
"On the other hand it means Big Oil is selling 85% less petroleum per gallon of fuel and this also means middle eastern terrorists would be getting 85% per gallon less of US currency to fund their efforts against Americans. Every time we fill our tanks with gasoline, we are funding terrorism. Any alternative fuel is a good thing whether it cost more or not. Think about this for a minute. The US is spending billions of dollars fighting a war on terror. Yet we also spend billions of dollars buying oil from nations that openly support terrorism. E85 quickly becomes a bargain when you look at the big picture. I for one will not hesitate to buy a flex fuel vehicle on my next purchase and use E85 every time I fill up."

nicely stated.
i am 100% in agreement. my next vehicle will run on E85. i would much rather give my money to american companies and farmers than some foriegn terrorists.

amen brother !!

 

So I researched and answered one of my own questions. I can fuel with E85 and then refuel with unleaded without any problems. Sensors in the FFV system sense how much alcohol is in the gas and adjust accordingly. I will find out the price of a gallon of E85 locally in just a bit.

As for the edge programmer thing. It might still work. Although a gallon of E85 doesn't have as much power as a gallon of unleaded, the octane rating is approximately 105 (and brings with it a 5% hp gain over unleaded ). The makers of Edge are a local company to me so I may call them up or swing over there and see what they say about running it in my truck with an Edge programmer.

 

There remains considerable debate as to whether ethanol requires more or less dino-fuel -- on a BTU basis -- than gasoline. Regardless of position, critics say it takes a few btus more oil to produce ethanol, proponents say it's a few less btus.

Let's split the difference and say 100,000 btus of ethanol require exactly 100,000 btus of oil for production.

That means NO arab oil is saved by producing ethanol. None, zip, nada. We still have to use dino-oil for plowing, planting, harvesting, processing, etc....

When you burn a gallon of ethanol in your F150, you have already burned the oil needed to make it.

The environmental and geopolitical benefits of ethanol are dubious.

 

E85 cost less that regular gas. Here it is at least $0.50 cheaper per gallon. I may lose a little in mpg, but the price difference more than makes up for it.

 

I was going to give E85 a try until I went to a gas station that has it. Regular unleaded gas was $2.83/gallon and the E85 was $3.49/gallon.

After hearing that E85 was cheaper but with worse economy I seriously thought about switching. But to pay $0.66 more per gallon (almost $20/tank) is rediculous especially to have worse fuel economy from it.

Hopefully costs to produce and ship the fuel will start to decline, until it happens, I can't afford to pay $105 to fill my truck up and drive 100+ miles less than on regular gasoline.

Damn, I really wanted to use it too...oh well.

 

Where do you live? Reason I ask is that stations here in the Midwest sell e85 cheaper than regular. I can't tell you how much exactly as I can't fill with it anyway.

But yeah, it pays to live in the area where it's produced just 1 hour south of me!

 

EXACTLY WHAT I SAID

Read the new car and driver "REVIEW" of E85. It's a ploy by the government to suduce you into thinking gas prices are better. Well actually it's all about reducing the US's reliance on foreign oil. But like our buddy here said, we still burn JUST AS MUCH foreign oil to run the tractors that cut the corn, and the trucks that drive the corn to the factory, and the factory itself which is run on electricity that runs off dino-fuels. Oh, and E85 can't go through the pipelines made for regular gar because E85 absorbs water that's in the pipes. So it has to be trucked (and that's more gasoline)...

Oh and in their test, a 2007 tahoe was reduced from 350 miles a tank to 250 miles a tank of E85, and it was over 3$ a gallon.

End of story? E85 allows car companies to skirt a new regulation coming online that says their cars have to AVERAGE out to some number (25?). Well, through a loop-hole they only have to count the fuel efficiency of the 15% of gas in a gallon of E85. Thus their overall gas mileage average goes sky high because techniclly a "gallon" of gas is equivielent to over 6 gallons of E85.

Seriously, this isn't a good deal...and it will go the way of the solar car soon enough...if the government stops trying to try crazy schemes like this INSTEAD OF JUST DRILLING FOR MORE OIL IN THE US...

 

Oh yea, one last note.

Car and driver reported a 30% reduction in fuel economy on their 2007 tahoe.

That means i have to have E85 at the pumps for 30% LESS than regular gas to even out.

So around here it's 2.90 a gallon...so E85 needs to be priced at .87 less

So $2.03 per gallon

Not going to happen probably....and it sucks...

 

the price of E85 right now is high. there is a large ethanol demand based on the production capacity that is out there. the reason is many states removed MTBE from their gasoline and replaced it with ethanol. add this increase to the increase in the popularity of E85 and you get high demand. many new ethanol plants are coming online in the next few months from Pacific Ethanol and Vera-Sun. the price will go down.... and wait and see what happens over the next 7 years. (look at your cell phone. remember what it was 7 years ago? compare it to your phone now)

as for the excuse that gas/diesel is required for driving tractors to grow and harvest as well as semis to transport.... this sounds like a great place for biodiesel.

i don't understand why folks aren't opened minded about this. i am very happy to give my $$ to american ethanol companies and american farmers instead of foreign terrorists.

its going to happen.
this is for real this time.