Calling Chris Adams!
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From: Houston, Texas
Calling Chris Adams!
Anyone else can chime in too. First off, in case you havent checked or havent recieved my email im interested in the power window kit offer. Will the SPAL kit be powerful enough for theses big windows? Is the installation to much harder than power locks or the autospring perhaps? Anyways just had a few questions and need to know pretty soon about that kit! THANKS!
Last edited by KaNigIt; Mar 31, 2005 at 08:52 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Hi guys, I will try to answer. The Spal, (sold under two or three names) has got a fairly strong motor, and is sold for most cars/trucks. On our windows, because the window is heavy, the factory used a different gearing than on the Heritage, etc. On the older trucks 6 turns to open or close window. On the New Model, 8 turns. It's what makes having mechanical windows a drag on these trucks. Crank and crank. Good side is they are 'lower geared' Sorta 4.11 gears, not 3.31 gears like the older truck. The actual load on the motor is probably lighter.
Now the bad news. Since it's 8 cranks, and the SPAL, Colibri etc. spin the crank, they are a little slower to raise/lower the window. Faster than you can do it by hand, of course, just not 'Cadillac speed' as my wife calls it. Her Eldorado on express down, it almost drops. These are about as fast as most foreign cars, or older sedans.
With express up/down, a super cheap mod, they actually work great.
So what's weaker about the SPAL? To fit in more places, and to be easier to install, they are thinner, and more flexible. They use a lighter drive method (String of beads design). Is that a bad thing? Not really, but the Colibri people brag about their unit being sturdier. Thing is, I haven’t seen either one fail in service yet. Some one might have some experience with that. Dunno. I asked several shops about failure rates when I was shopping around. No useful answer. Everybody used either the SPAL models, the 'hidden' models (can't think of the brand, right now), or the Colibri. All claimed theirs was best. None acknowledged any failures, in a normal use time.
I know I have lost factory window motors at 2500 miles (Cadillac driver window motor, under warranty). And had cheap Grand Cherokee motors never fail even though we put 265,000 miles on one of my shop trucks in a five year period. All four motors were still working after three transmissions, and two heads had failed. Not to mention about 50 other components failing.
I think it's mostly luck of the draw on longevity. Cool part about add on power windows if one fails, 90% of the work is in putting in the switches, wires, etc. so swapping it out is rather easy.
And oddly enough, as they are all the same wiring/switch systems, you can mix and match brands, etc. getting the cheapest replacement, or the best, as you need it.
How hard is it to install? As I have said, installing the switches is the hard part. Took me more than an hour, almost two, with a mototool, and small files to tailor my lighter panel for two switches. With express up and down, works better than stock.
On guy who put them in his STX installed the switches factory style in the door above and forward of the armrest. He said he did the cutting with an exacto knife and it took him five minutes a side. Looked good. Can't remember which forum it was in, this or the other one I post in.
Another guy mounted the switches on the upper part of the door panel, in front of the windows. Inboard of the mirror. I had considered that, as there is much room there. My wife, who wanted the windows hot all the time, like power seats, pointed out that if you left the window down a couple inches, you could reach in and power down the windows. So I put them in the center.
Of course, I didn't hook them up always hot, so that would not have been a problem, and I have vent visors, so it still wouldn't have been a problem... Still, I like 'em where they are.
The hardest part of the motor install is pulling two wires through each door. Same as two wires for the power door locks, just a little bigger wire. If you use the two switches on the drivers door method, (like stock) then you have to run four wires through that door. No biggie.
There is some drilling inside the door panel. I had to drill approximately seven 1/8 inch holes per side to put screws through, holding the power assembly from moving. There is plenty of room there, and the holes are of course covered by the door panels, so if you make a mistake and have to move one around, no problem.
Oddly, on my truck the instructions were not right on any kit. They figure the splined shaft from the window crank will stick out of the door panel, so they give you some 'caps' that you install, covering the extra part. These caps stick up about 1/4 to 5/8 inch, to cover the splines.
On my truck, the splines were 1/2 inch below the surface. So I just had to cover the holes. I recommend 1 1/4 inch surface mount tweeters, swiveled up. Some will tell you that the tweeters shouldn't go there. Could be, the hole is inches below the indoor tweeter location, so if you want, don't hook them up, just use them as dummies. Or hook them up.
I have plastic disks on mine. I glued them in place, and if one ever falls off, I will put on the tweeters. Slamming the door still hasn't managed to dislodge a plastic disk, darn it. But sometime I will have an excuse to put in the tweeters.
Chris
Now the bad news. Since it's 8 cranks, and the SPAL, Colibri etc. spin the crank, they are a little slower to raise/lower the window. Faster than you can do it by hand, of course, just not 'Cadillac speed' as my wife calls it. Her Eldorado on express down, it almost drops. These are about as fast as most foreign cars, or older sedans.
With express up/down, a super cheap mod, they actually work great.
So what's weaker about the SPAL? To fit in more places, and to be easier to install, they are thinner, and more flexible. They use a lighter drive method (String of beads design). Is that a bad thing? Not really, but the Colibri people brag about their unit being sturdier. Thing is, I haven’t seen either one fail in service yet. Some one might have some experience with that. Dunno. I asked several shops about failure rates when I was shopping around. No useful answer. Everybody used either the SPAL models, the 'hidden' models (can't think of the brand, right now), or the Colibri. All claimed theirs was best. None acknowledged any failures, in a normal use time.
I know I have lost factory window motors at 2500 miles (Cadillac driver window motor, under warranty). And had cheap Grand Cherokee motors never fail even though we put 265,000 miles on one of my shop trucks in a five year period. All four motors were still working after three transmissions, and two heads had failed. Not to mention about 50 other components failing.
I think it's mostly luck of the draw on longevity. Cool part about add on power windows if one fails, 90% of the work is in putting in the switches, wires, etc. so swapping it out is rather easy.
And oddly enough, as they are all the same wiring/switch systems, you can mix and match brands, etc. getting the cheapest replacement, or the best, as you need it.
How hard is it to install? As I have said, installing the switches is the hard part. Took me more than an hour, almost two, with a mototool, and small files to tailor my lighter panel for two switches. With express up and down, works better than stock.
On guy who put them in his STX installed the switches factory style in the door above and forward of the armrest. He said he did the cutting with an exacto knife and it took him five minutes a side. Looked good. Can't remember which forum it was in, this or the other one I post in.
Another guy mounted the switches on the upper part of the door panel, in front of the windows. Inboard of the mirror. I had considered that, as there is much room there. My wife, who wanted the windows hot all the time, like power seats, pointed out that if you left the window down a couple inches, you could reach in and power down the windows. So I put them in the center.
Of course, I didn't hook them up always hot, so that would not have been a problem, and I have vent visors, so it still wouldn't have been a problem... Still, I like 'em where they are.
The hardest part of the motor install is pulling two wires through each door. Same as two wires for the power door locks, just a little bigger wire. If you use the two switches on the drivers door method, (like stock) then you have to run four wires through that door. No biggie.
There is some drilling inside the door panel. I had to drill approximately seven 1/8 inch holes per side to put screws through, holding the power assembly from moving. There is plenty of room there, and the holes are of course covered by the door panels, so if you make a mistake and have to move one around, no problem.
Oddly, on my truck the instructions were not right on any kit. They figure the splined shaft from the window crank will stick out of the door panel, so they give you some 'caps' that you install, covering the extra part. These caps stick up about 1/4 to 5/8 inch, to cover the splines.
On my truck, the splines were 1/2 inch below the surface. So I just had to cover the holes. I recommend 1 1/4 inch surface mount tweeters, swiveled up. Some will tell you that the tweeters shouldn't go there. Could be, the hole is inches below the indoor tweeter location, so if you want, don't hook them up, just use them as dummies. Or hook them up.
I have plastic disks on mine. I glued them in place, and if one ever falls off, I will put on the tweeters. Slamming the door still hasn't managed to dislodge a plastic disk, darn it. But sometime I will have an excuse to put in the tweeters.
Chris
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,597
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Do a search for cruise on the wheel replacment.
Have done extensive reports on that in two forums.
Simple side, you need a two claw steering wheel puller, rent, borrow, or buy.
a metric socket, or nut driver about 8 mm. Or is it seven?
a 45 Torx socket.
Don't forget to disconnect the negative battery cable and let it sit a couple minutes.
You also need a sharp, padded dingus for prying out the two little disks on each side of the wheel surround.
Best place to get cruise wheels is on e-bay. Figure 50-55 bucks plus shipping.
Easy job, takes about 20 minutes.
More details in cruise posts,
Have fun;
Chris
Have done extensive reports on that in two forums.
Simple side, you need a two claw steering wheel puller, rent, borrow, or buy.
a metric socket, or nut driver about 8 mm. Or is it seven?
a 45 Torx socket.
Don't forget to disconnect the negative battery cable and let it sit a couple minutes.
You also need a sharp, padded dingus for prying out the two little disks on each side of the wheel surround.
Best place to get cruise wheels is on e-bay. Figure 50-55 bucks plus shipping.
Easy job, takes about 20 minutes.
More details in cruise posts,
Have fun;
Chris