2003 F150 Crank but no start....intermittent
#16
#17
(Also: still notice fuel pump does not run (prime) every time I cycle the key....is that normal, or should I hear it come on briefly every time the key is cycled on?)
Last edited by Geo6x; 12-31-2018 at 02:09 PM.
#18
Read closely;
ALL coils and injectors are fed by the same fuse.
The injectors are operated ahead of the coils for obvious reasons and referenced to the CAM shaft sensor for timing..
If some injectors are not being pulsed there should be 120x codes to tell you this. Look up the1201-1208 codes.
If yes, the connectors are open, the harness is open, the connector at the PCM is loose or the PCM injector drivers are faulty.
An Ohm meter check looking back at the drivers in the PCM should read about 10,000 Ohms +/- if the circuits are good from the connectors back to the Drivers.
Find out what is actually not happening and not wander to other areas that don't apply.
Then address the specific fault.
If no fault found in the above circuits, there is some other fault.
.
ALL coils and injectors are fed by the same fuse.
The injectors are operated ahead of the coils for obvious reasons and referenced to the CAM shaft sensor for timing..
If some injectors are not being pulsed there should be 120x codes to tell you this. Look up the1201-1208 codes.
If yes, the connectors are open, the harness is open, the connector at the PCM is loose or the PCM injector drivers are faulty.
An Ohm meter check looking back at the drivers in the PCM should read about 10,000 Ohms +/- if the circuits are good from the connectors back to the Drivers.
Find out what is actually not happening and not wander to other areas that don't apply.
Then address the specific fault.
If no fault found in the above circuits, there is some other fault.
.
#19
Read closely;
ALL coils and injectors are fed by the same fuse.
The injectors are operated ahead of the coils for obvious reasons and referenced to the CAM shaft sensor for timing..
If some injectors are not being pulsed there should be 120x codes to tell you this. Look up the1201-1208 codes.
If yes, the connectors are open, the harness is open, the connector at the PCM is loose or the PCM injector drivers are faulty.
An Ohm meter check looking back at the drivers in the PCM should read about 10,000 Ohms +/- if the circuits are good from the connectors back to the Drivers.
Find out what is actually not happening and not wander to other areas that don't apply.
Then address the specific fault.
If no fault found in the above circuits, there is some other fault.
.
ALL coils and injectors are fed by the same fuse.
The injectors are operated ahead of the coils for obvious reasons and referenced to the CAM shaft sensor for timing..
If some injectors are not being pulsed there should be 120x codes to tell you this. Look up the1201-1208 codes.
If yes, the connectors are open, the harness is open, the connector at the PCM is loose or the PCM injector drivers are faulty.
An Ohm meter check looking back at the drivers in the PCM should read about 10,000 Ohms +/- if the circuits are good from the connectors back to the Drivers.
Find out what is actually not happening and not wander to other areas that don't apply.
Then address the specific fault.
If no fault found in the above circuits, there is some other fault.
.
#20
That clears a lot of territory.
If PATS is not satisfied at cranking, it prevents fuel from being injected out of the injectors.
This is a normal result and the way PATS is supposed to work.
Be sure Pats has no trouble.
At key on the Theft light should come on then go out with the other checkout lights and not flash on cranking.
If it does, there will be no start and it indicates a trouble.
If yes, try key on, no crank and let it that way for a couple minutes to see if the Theft light flashes a two code.
If yes what is it..
If PATS is not satisfied at cranking, it prevents fuel from being injected out of the injectors.
This is a normal result and the way PATS is supposed to work.
Be sure Pats has no trouble.
At key on the Theft light should come on then go out with the other checkout lights and not flash on cranking.
If it does, there will be no start and it indicates a trouble.
If yes, try key on, no crank and let it that way for a couple minutes to see if the Theft light flashes a two code.
If yes what is it..
#21
That clears a lot of territory.
If PATS is not satisfied at cranking, it prevents fuel from being injected out of the injectors.
This is a normal result and the way PATS is supposed to work.
Be sure Pats has no trouble.
At key on the Theft light should come on then go out with the other checkout lights and not flash on cranking.
If it does, there will be no start and it indicates a trouble.
If yes, try key on, no crank and let it that way for a couple minutes to see if the Theft light flashes a two code.
If yes what is it..
If PATS is not satisfied at cranking, it prevents fuel from being injected out of the injectors.
This is a normal result and the way PATS is supposed to work.
Be sure Pats has no trouble.
At key on the Theft light should come on then go out with the other checkout lights and not flash on cranking.
If it does, there will be no start and it indicates a trouble.
If yes, try key on, no crank and let it that way for a couple minutes to see if the Theft light flashes a two code.
If yes what is it..
#22
If you have spark during cranking, that eliminates the Crank sensor because the Crank sensor has to signal the PCM and establish the initial timing reference.
If it does not, nothing works during cranking.
The fuel pump will be turned on at key on but not from the Crank sensor because the crank is not rotating.
Initial power to the PCM starts a software timer that causes the pump relay to pull up, then times out in about 3 seconds.
The timer re-operates the pump when the crank signal is detected.
You should be close to seeing which function is missing or are over looking it.
Something is not allowing the PCM to operate the injectors, only the ignition. Usually it Pats does not supply the start 'bits' in a program word, this inhibits fuel..
If the Bus between PATS and the PCM is open, a code is set both ends to back this up even though they are different codes, they point to the same fault..
Good luck.
If it does not, nothing works during cranking.
The fuel pump will be turned on at key on but not from the Crank sensor because the crank is not rotating.
Initial power to the PCM starts a software timer that causes the pump relay to pull up, then times out in about 3 seconds.
The timer re-operates the pump when the crank signal is detected.
You should be close to seeing which function is missing or are over looking it.
Something is not allowing the PCM to operate the injectors, only the ignition. Usually it Pats does not supply the start 'bits' in a program word, this inhibits fuel..
If the Bus between PATS and the PCM is open, a code is set both ends to back this up even though they are different codes, they point to the same fault..
Good luck.
#23
If you have spark during cranking, that eliminates the Crank sensor because the Crank sensor has to signal the PCM and establish the initial timing reference.
If it does not, nothing works during cranking.
The fuel pump will be turned on at key on but not from the Crank sensor because the crank is not rotating.
Initial power to the PCM starts a software timer that causes the pump relay to pull up, then times out in about 3 seconds.
The timer re-operates the pump when the crank signal is detected.
You should be close to seeing which function is missing or are over looking it.
Something is not allowing the PCM to operate the injectors, only the ignition. Usually it Pats does not supply the start 'bits' in a program word, this inhibits fuel..
If the Bus between PATS and the PCM is open, a code is set both ends to back this up even though they are different codes, they point to the same fault..
Good luck.
If it does not, nothing works during cranking.
The fuel pump will be turned on at key on but not from the Crank sensor because the crank is not rotating.
Initial power to the PCM starts a software timer that causes the pump relay to pull up, then times out in about 3 seconds.
The timer re-operates the pump when the crank signal is detected.
You should be close to seeing which function is missing or are over looking it.
Something is not allowing the PCM to operate the injectors, only the ignition. Usually it Pats does not supply the start 'bits' in a program word, this inhibits fuel..
If the Bus between PATS and the PCM is open, a code is set both ends to back this up even though they are different codes, they point to the same fault..
Good luck.
#24
Do use a spark tester such as what I linked to verify you do have spark.
Because of PATS, the PCM has to be flashed. You can take it to a Ford dealer or a shop that has a compatible computer and software, or possibly a locksmith. I think you can do the PATS with FORScan for Windows and a OBD2 adapter if you register for the extended license.
Because of PATS, the PCM has to be flashed. You can take it to a Ford dealer or a shop that has a compatible computer and software, or possibly a locksmith. I think you can do the PATS with FORScan for Windows and a OBD2 adapter if you register for the extended license.
#25
I am curious if you verified a sound connection at the crankshaft position sensor? With my 03, when I yanked the motor for a bad head gasket I broke the retaining tab on the plug for the CPS. Until I replaced the plug, it would periodically crank and not start. It would also stall and not re-fire until I'd crawl underneath and push the plug back on.
#26
Thought I was near a breakthrough, but no such luck. I bought a spark tester, and sure enough, no spark. That and failing the noid light test told me no fuel injector pulsing and no spark. So I raced down to get a new crank position sensor thinking I was home free. Still won't start. (Spraying the starting fluid into the intake, it acts like it wants to start....but I mistakenly read this as having spark, which I do not.)
It did start up at random the day before and ran fine....no hesitation, no miss. Enough to drive you crazy. I've checked the fuses and fuel pump relay and the PCM relay, swapped them with known good identical relays (like one touch window down, backlight relays) to no avail. Theft light not blinking during crank, comes on at bulb check, then goes out as it should.
Is there a way to verify the new crank sensor is good? Any PCM checks I can run?.....not getting any codes. Still noticing that fuel pump does not run (prime) every time i turn key on, but fuel rail still pressurizes to about 30-33 psi. I realize that last point is probably meaningless if I don't have fuel or spark.
Suggestions on what to try next?
It did start up at random the day before and ran fine....no hesitation, no miss. Enough to drive you crazy. I've checked the fuses and fuel pump relay and the PCM relay, swapped them with known good identical relays (like one touch window down, backlight relays) to no avail. Theft light not blinking during crank, comes on at bulb check, then goes out as it should.
Is there a way to verify the new crank sensor is good? Any PCM checks I can run?.....not getting any codes. Still noticing that fuel pump does not run (prime) every time i turn key on, but fuel rail still pressurizes to about 30-33 psi. I realize that last point is probably meaningless if I don't have fuel or spark.
Suggestions on what to try next?
#28
Have you checked the camshaft position sensors?
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...or-1w7z6b288ab
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...or-1w7z6b288ab
Edit: Guess there's only one on the 2V engines?
Last edited by Geo6x; 01-04-2019 at 06:37 PM.
#29
Stop here!.
Read:
Key on powers up the computer and the rest of the systems.
Initial power to the computer runs the pump for about 3 seconds then stops.
At cranking, the crank sensor send pulses to the computer to restart the fuel pump and establishes initial timing reference for both fuel injection and ignition..
The cam sensor is a secondary timing to control fuel injection more precisely vs load and RPM..
Bottom line: If there is no ignition or fuel injection, the computer is not supplying the timed grounds to those circuits..
Forget the cam senor. If the computer is not working, the cam sensor is not even in play..
If the computer is not powered up and working there can be no codes detected, stored or read out..
If the computer loses power, all codes are lost.
.
Question is, is there a power drop when cranking due to fuse seating, poor ground or cable connections etc that drops the voltage too low.
Is there is a problem with the computer main connector?
The issue is now basic power of some sort.
Is the harness from the crank sensor damaged assuming there is no basic power issue?
Is there an after market alarm system that may be tripped?
The problem has to be sorted out and not run here and their trying to get lucky.
Read:
Key on powers up the computer and the rest of the systems.
Initial power to the computer runs the pump for about 3 seconds then stops.
At cranking, the crank sensor send pulses to the computer to restart the fuel pump and establishes initial timing reference for both fuel injection and ignition..
The cam sensor is a secondary timing to control fuel injection more precisely vs load and RPM..
Bottom line: If there is no ignition or fuel injection, the computer is not supplying the timed grounds to those circuits..
Forget the cam senor. If the computer is not working, the cam sensor is not even in play..
If the computer is not powered up and working there can be no codes detected, stored or read out..
If the computer loses power, all codes are lost.
.
Question is, is there a power drop when cranking due to fuse seating, poor ground or cable connections etc that drops the voltage too low.
Is there is a problem with the computer main connector?
The issue is now basic power of some sort.
Is the harness from the crank sensor damaged assuming there is no basic power issue?
Is there an after market alarm system that may be tripped?
The problem has to be sorted out and not run here and their trying to get lucky.
#30
Stop here!.
Read:
Key on powers up the computer and the rest of the systems.
Initial power to the computer runs the pump for about 3 seconds then stops.
At cranking, the crank sensor send pulses to the computer to restart the fuel pump and establishes initial timing reference for both fuel injection and ignition..
The cam sensor is a secondary timing to control fuel injection more precisely vs load and RPM..
Bottom line: If there is no ignition or fuel injection, the computer is not supplying the timed grounds to those circuits..
Forget the cam senor. If the computer is not working, the cam sensor is not even in play..
If the computer is not powered up and working there can be no codes detected, stored or read out..
If the computer loses power, all codes are lost.
.
Question is, is there a power drop when cranking due to fuse seating, poor ground or cable connections etc that drops the voltage too low.
Is there is a problem with the computer main connector?
The issue is now basic power of some sort.
Is the harness from the crank sensor damaged assuming there is no basic power issue?
Is there an after market alarm system that may be tripped?
The problem has to be sorted out and not run here and their trying to get lucky.
Read:
Key on powers up the computer and the rest of the systems.
Initial power to the computer runs the pump for about 3 seconds then stops.
At cranking, the crank sensor send pulses to the computer to restart the fuel pump and establishes initial timing reference for both fuel injection and ignition..
The cam sensor is a secondary timing to control fuel injection more precisely vs load and RPM..
Bottom line: If there is no ignition or fuel injection, the computer is not supplying the timed grounds to those circuits..
Forget the cam senor. If the computer is not working, the cam sensor is not even in play..
If the computer is not powered up and working there can be no codes detected, stored or read out..
If the computer loses power, all codes are lost.
.
Question is, is there a power drop when cranking due to fuse seating, poor ground or cable connections etc that drops the voltage too low.
Is there is a problem with the computer main connector?
The issue is now basic power of some sort.
Is the harness from the crank sensor damaged assuming there is no basic power issue?
Is there an after market alarm system that may be tripped?
The problem has to be sorted out and not run here and their trying to get lucky.
- Going to remove the battery next so I can get to the PCM connector....I'll remove it and re-seat it to get a good connection.
- I've removed and re-seated fuses and relays several times now, all check out good
- No a/m alarm or other accessories
- Crank sensor plug looked as new, good connection, locks in place, no oil/dirt....is there a way i can test the new crank sensor to make sure it's good, getting a good signal? Old one reads 300 ohms across pins (if that means anything....)