Crankcase Ventilation
#16
Is this bickering back and forth really helping us out? We all want what's best for our trucks, and some of us can't afford a 500 dollar solution. Some of us like myself have a supercharger but don't race or have excessive amounts of boost. Between both of you, what is the best option for me? I've seen double oil catch set-ups, air breathers with the ball valve, just single oil catch pans, and now this oil pump solution which seems kind of excessive for my truck. Maybe you guys can collaborate and save this thread because you both have extensive knowledge with supercharged engines.
#19
This is a very interesting subject and I hope that you guys that know this stuff continue. That said, maybe we need to break the discussion into categories. For example, with my little knowledge I would think that anyone who has a setup that evacuates the crankcase with a pump would also be in the same league with vehicles that use Blower straps. So how about some definitions on this stuff. Maybe "Street Legal" would be a category that includes mods to the Crankcase ventilation system that can be used on the street. "Street Ill Eagle" this would be a category that would include mods that would not meet Smog but could be changed easily before your next smog test. And "Race" This would be track only mods requiring you to trailer your vehicle to the track. I hope this discussion continues. I have learned a lot.
#20
http://www.dynamicracing.com/index.p...&product_id=88
I honestly don't remember where I bought mine from. One goes in each vacuum lines coming going from the valve covers to intake tube / supercharger. They are a one way valve that only allows vacuum to the crank case and no oil or vapor pressure into the intake. If you let the truck idle for a minute and shut the engine off it's physically difficult to pull the oil dipstick or oil fill cap off because of the strong vacuum. I have noticed zero oil in my intake since installation.
I think I have a write up on here I'll have to search
I honestly don't remember where I bought mine from. One goes in each vacuum lines coming going from the valve covers to intake tube / supercharger. They are a one way valve that only allows vacuum to the crank case and no oil or vapor pressure into the intake. If you let the truck idle for a minute and shut the engine off it's physically difficult to pull the oil dipstick or oil fill cap off because of the strong vacuum. I have noticed zero oil in my intake since installation.
I think I have a write up on here I'll have to search
#21
Well I had a write up with hose part numbers and such of the install but it was years ago I think all that info got wiped off the site (probably only keep threads so many years)
Oh and as far as categories my truck is a daily driver that passes Arizona emissions but won't pass a tailpipe test due to no cats
Oh and as far as categories my truck is a daily driver that passes Arizona emissions but won't pass a tailpipe test due to no cats
#23
#24
Twin- This is exactly what I meant when I said I knew this thread would start ****. I really didn't think it would be YOU starting it though. I wanted this thread to stay technical. And I did not want to write a book...
My point was all of the big three say the same thing. No matter what causes that SES light comes on, there is still an engine underneath.
Again, I ask you to think about the Moroso belt drive CC vacuum pump or crankcase evacuation systems. The CONCEPT.
From the Summit Racing site...
Imagine that. A negative pressure on the CC promotes ring seal and helps prevent the blowby causing our problems in the first place. THEN, I stop boosting the CC to ensure this works. No point in adding 15 PSIG when we are trying to evacuate. Damn.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-22640/overview/
As you can see, it does NOT lend itself to installation on our serpentine systems, but I DO have a negative pressure source any time the engine is running.
DELUSIONAL? I will not address that in public.
And yet you want to blow off metered air at WOT? What is the trick? Does the breather setup require tuning? Do you have an equation for the exact orifice size?
I could refute it immediately. Did long ago. But chose to use restraint in responding out of respect. And since you made it personal, as opposed to being respectful and staying on topic, as you normally are, I have been writing this post for a freakin' week. Because it is NOT personal, it is TECHNICAL, and I do not want to say something I will regret. So think Aero and fluid dynamics. The classes they do not teach you in most automotive programs. If you even went to one.
You **** EXCELLENCE and yet had to buy three different exhaust systems for the same truck? Even as you are posting the math and talking yourself up? My compliments on your due diligence. And it paid off. It also works and looks BEAUTIFUL. Sincerely. And I truly believe you have most likely saved many members a lot of money. I also feel compelled to say that you need to learn how to take a compliment.
My point was all of the big three say the same thing. No matter what causes that SES light comes on, there is still an engine underneath.
Again, I ask you to think about the Moroso belt drive CC vacuum pump or crankcase evacuation systems. The CONCEPT.
From the Summit Racing site...
Imagine that. A negative pressure on the CC promotes ring seal and helps prevent the blowby causing our problems in the first place. THEN, I stop boosting the CC to ensure this works. No point in adding 15 PSIG when we are trying to evacuate. Damn.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-22640/overview/
As you can see, it does NOT lend itself to installation on our serpentine systems, but I DO have a negative pressure source any time the engine is running.
DELUSIONAL? I will not address that in public.
And yet you want to blow off metered air at WOT? What is the trick? Does the breather setup require tuning? Do you have an equation for the exact orifice size?
I could refute it immediately. Did long ago. But chose to use restraint in responding out of respect. And since you made it personal, as opposed to being respectful and staying on topic, as you normally are, I have been writing this post for a freakin' week. Because it is NOT personal, it is TECHNICAL, and I do not want to say something I will regret. So think Aero and fluid dynamics. The classes they do not teach you in most automotive programs. If you even went to one.
You **** EXCELLENCE and yet had to buy three different exhaust systems for the same truck? Even as you are posting the math and talking yourself up? My compliments on your due diligence. And it paid off. It also works and looks BEAUTIFUL. Sincerely. And I truly believe you have most likely saved many members a lot of money. I also feel compelled to say that you need to learn how to take a compliment.
The vacuum pump. Yes it will work. Never said it wouldn't. In fact no where in this thread or any other have i addressed it. It would work but only half the job would be done. And it's not street legal which you seem to care so much about The pump would work beautifully for evacuating the crankcase and improving ring seal. However if routed to the intake it would give the inter cooler a bath in oil. So it would still need a catch can or some other type of trap assembly for the oil to settle in. Regardless of where you route it this would be needed. Plus it would need a regulator, plumbing, pulley, and other hardware. All said your looking at a $700+ setup. Unless you order the kit from www.rehermorrison.com/product/vacuum-pump-kit/ which is far more expensive.
You keep harping on metered air and measuring it once. What you don't get is this. The air was measured, entered the combustion chamber, mixed with fuel and as far as the computer is concerned was evacuated. The computer does not care if it went out the exhaust pipe or slid past the rings. It has no way of measuring or determining what air went where. As far as it's concerned it's gone. When under boost the PCV system doesn't even work so this again is a moot point on your part. If you had read how this part works you would have never brought this up as you would see it only functions to release pressure when the PCV system is not working which is under boost. It relives crankcase pressure. It does not allow unmetered air in to the system. Sooo NO TUNING IS REQUIRED. That's the beauty of this part.
For a while now guys who wanted or had to run a vent had to let there tuner know so they could build the logic in the tune for the un-metered air. Crash you should know this. It's right on JDM's tuning sheet. Remember the one you stole from their site and labeled as your own.
Now for the low down on my exhaust. When I purchased my truck new in 07 I added a Magnaflow Catback Lightning style exit for my ride to give it a little rumble. 2 years later I supercharged my truck and 1 year after that up'd the boost to 9-10psi. At that time I added LT headers and x-pipe and a true duals. The Magnflow muffler I used for this setup failed and became quite noisy 18 months later. My work sent to Ft. Lauderdale for 3 weeks in Nov of 2012. They wanted me to take the comapny van and I declined asking if I could use my truck. I had one thing in mind. Down in Ft. Lauderdale I had found a shop that could do Mandrel bends. So with my company footing the gas bill I was able to drive my truck down there and have an all Stainless Steel system complete with Manadrel bends installed for $550. I ask, who wouldn't take that deal?
Last edited by twinskrewd; 11-30-2014 at 07:58 PM.
#25
Is this bickering back and forth really helping us out? We all want what's best for our trucks, and some of us can't afford a 500 dollar solution. Some of us like myself have a supercharger but don't race or have excessive amounts of boost. Between both of you, what is the best option for me? I've seen double oil catch set-ups, air breathers with the ball valve, just single oil catch pans, and now this oil pump solution which seems kind of excessive for my truck. Maybe you guys can collaborate and save this thread because you both have extensive knowledge with supercharged engines.
I run more boost then most on a stock motor and probably don't need it. I like the idea of having it though. The Whipple, Roush, and Saleen set ups for the 04-10 trucks all route the PCV back to the inlet tube and the driver side valve cover is vented to the intake behind the throttle body. This allows for venting when under boost and promotes ring seal under normal driving using intake vacuum. However that oily air that is sucked in coats the inter cooler which reduces it's efficiency. This is where the catch can comes in. Or as Irons1in has done using the Krankvents. There's also McMaster Carr vents. Irons1in hasn't had any issues with his Krankvents and they seem to work well. However results have been different for different individuals. Some have found they need the oil catch can behind the Krankvents and some have found they needed to regulate vacuum to them as they pulled to much.
Last edited by twinskrewd; 11-30-2014 at 11:32 PM.
#26
I did it 12 years ago with 50 CI less and had not even entered the cam's powerband of a 7000 redline. I pegged a 95mm MAF with a stock TB. Come on man. Delusional is thinking you are the one. On a 5.4. with 3 valves. VCT. Fly by wire. And 6 exhaust systems. Glad you sorted that one out.
You have been playing catch up and don't even know it. You are the Coyote with the makeshift rocket strapped to his ***. And losing. Hence the analogy.
Sorry, I had a daughter. Now I am into the entire package. A showpiece. One that will get out of it's own way. Not a 12 second truck. Not the intent at all.
You make the mistake of thinking I am competing with you. Would I really spend $25 for each 3157 LED if I was focused on racing? NO. I would own a turbocharged 4.6 5-speed, REG CAB STLYLESIDE. And if you are not grabbing the OH **** BAR and tightening your seat belt, you will when I double the boost or spray your ***.
Enough. I would rather you set your wife up an ID and ask her to post. I work better with those fresh and open minded. Not someone poisoned by theory and math and needing to install 6 exhaust systems to get it right. Someone that either can talk the talk and not walk the walk... Or "Mustang" tuners with different objectives. Or much less someone that will sell you one of these catch cans, and then spend 15 dyno pulls and charge YOU $1500 for it when it was never even connected. Don't even...
Whatever. Follow the air through the engine in your mind Jason. And pay attention when I post links and quote things. Like I said, this subject was dealt with long before you became a member. Just recirculate or calibrate for it. And don't forget to drain a catch can. Maintenance. The last thing I need is more maintenance.
You have been playing catch up and don't even know it. You are the Coyote with the makeshift rocket strapped to his ***. And losing. Hence the analogy.
Sorry, I had a daughter. Now I am into the entire package. A showpiece. One that will get out of it's own way. Not a 12 second truck. Not the intent at all.
You make the mistake of thinking I am competing with you. Would I really spend $25 for each 3157 LED if I was focused on racing? NO. I would own a turbocharged 4.6 5-speed, REG CAB STLYLESIDE. And if you are not grabbing the OH **** BAR and tightening your seat belt, you will when I double the boost or spray your ***.
Enough. I would rather you set your wife up an ID and ask her to post. I work better with those fresh and open minded. Not someone poisoned by theory and math and needing to install 6 exhaust systems to get it right. Someone that either can talk the talk and not walk the walk... Or "Mustang" tuners with different objectives. Or much less someone that will sell you one of these catch cans, and then spend 15 dyno pulls and charge YOU $1500 for it when it was never even connected. Don't even...
Whatever. Follow the air through the engine in your mind Jason. And pay attention when I post links and quote things. Like I said, this subject was dealt with long before you became a member. Just recirculate or calibrate for it. And don't forget to drain a catch can. Maintenance. The last thing I need is more maintenance.
Originally Posted by Crash!
Not someone poisoned by theory and math
Originally Posted by Crash!
And remember, in my world, (3,3,-3) as opposed to (3,3,3) means the rear view mirror just got stuck on the outside of the BACK window. Thanks.
#27
#28
Amen to that! Plenty of talking up here. All those post and not one showing I'm wrong. I love it!!
#29
All of these solutions seem to depend on vacuum, When you have blow by and boost, what then? Oh, and the breather noted by the OP has a check valve.
That plastic check valve isn't going to work, it not shinny or anodized, what were you thinking?
That plastic check valve isn't going to work, it not shinny or anodized, what were you thinking?
Last edited by MeanGene; 12-12-2014 at 02:36 PM.
#30
I keep wondering what the OEM's do? They make all kinds of vehicles that have forced induction. They must make some changes to the PCV systems to handle the WFO conditions. I know the Ford Factory produced 5.4 F150's with a blower, what changes were made to its PCV system?
Stirring the pot....
Stirring the pot....