Where did you get your information from? The old HDR coils also have the ability to "dial in" each cylinder (which is done by the P.C.M. anyway) and also featured multi-strike spark capability and are about the same as far as spark output. In fact they also had fewer failures than COP systems (not that I favor one or the other). COP is just another way of doing it, yes, without wires but not "less efficient". I think you are stating a matter of opinion as far as the superiority goes. As far as the original question is concerned, I wouldn't waste my time converting the ignition system.

 

by dial in I mean you can tune each cylinder individually. that is why you see people converting from the standad coils to COP's. You have to do some custom tuning in order to be able to dial in each cylinder. For example. Your compression in your cylinders are 1/2 180psi and the other half 190 psi, you have the ability to tweak thepcm and tune the cylinders for more spark advance on those cylinders with less the less compression. If you were to tune all the cylinders like they had the 180 psi you would start to get detonation or "pinging" on those cylinders with the more compression. It wont be a screaming hell difference I know but you would be able to see decent gains on the dyno. As for the plug wires think about power lines that supply your house with electricty and how much power they lose from where the power is created to when it gets to your house.



Also your original coils lasted 180,000 miles. Buy another set and they will outlast the truck.

 

Your response makes no sense, the old HDR coil packs are four individual coils in one "pack" (ie..coil pack) and the P.C.M. fires them individually just like the COP ignition systems, therefore, how would you "dial in" individual cylinders on COP systems as opposed to HDR systems, it's the same either way. As far as wires go, not much is lost at the plug to make any amount of significance over the COP system, nothing that a good set of wires wouldn't fix if you wanted. I highly doubt there would be any descent gains, if any at all, on a dyno by doing this. If my engine had compression differences like that I would be considering a rebuild instead of converting to COP ignition. Besides, I don't know anybody who does or has done individual cylinder tuning, (how about some names) unless maybee you are talking about professional auto racing, this is the first time I have heard of it, but I have been wrong before.

 

- but its not the same

- there can be as much as 40,000 volts lower on the HDR systems than the COP's by time it reaches the plug

- 5% difference isn't that much you don't need a rebuild unless there is 10% more.

- the people who take the time to do it are about serious power. You wont be seeing much out of people on here as it takes many runs on the dyno to perfect which equates to big money and most people on here wont be taking there truck past minor bolt ons.


You could google about any of this and I am sure you will be able verify what i have said

 

-Yes it is, read my responses again, I think you may have misunderstood, cylinder firing is the same (P.C.M. controlled), just caried out by a different coil setup.

-Again, read my response.

-It is higher than 10%, but I was being sarcastic.

-Then it doesn't apply here.

 

Boy controversy follows you everywhere man! I should have looked for that user name before registering.

Have you ever thought that you don't have the capabilities of being sarcastic? Just a suggestion for you to ponder on! (This may or may not be a sarcastic statement. Source of comments can not be held responsible! Void where prohibited, and, all who gets offended may go straddle a goat!)

 

Yes, I have considered that and I've given up trying to explain myself (not really).
Not many people like to respond to me or tell me if I have helped in any way, (I'm sure it's because of my first few posts to this forum) apparently nobody trusts anyone on here until they have thousands of posts. I, on the other hand, have a life outside of the internet, but I am getting there slowly.

As far as controversy goes, they started it. (is that better for sarcasm)

There is so much inaccurate information on the internet, I just don't think it is fair for someone who is looking for help to be given false or opinionated advice on issues they might have. I may have started off on the "wrong foot" here, but it doesn't mean I am wrong.

 

As already mentioned (before the thread took a left-turn), an all-too-common issue is that the coils themselves don't fail, but the link to the plug does. The spring can corrode, the boot can dry-rot, and you can have arc loss through the head, just like when a spark plug wire goes bad.

My dad had just that issue with my mom's Expedition a couple years ago... the dealership went round and round, replacing half the coils. My dad, in frustration, went to the local parts store (CarQuest). The guys there sold him a $34 set of boots and springs and that solved his misfire, stumble, and rough idle issues immediately.

I can't believe washing the engine causes it though... The coils are solid and sealed, the connectors are water-tight, and the boots are sealed to both the coil and the plug... what's water gonna do to 'em?

 

- with the hdr coils you can not run 27* on one cylinder and 28* on the other. You could on the COP design.

- most people on hear wont be trying to squeeze more power out of their ignition this way but they still have the ability to.


Reverting back to the old style coil packs would be the same as pulling out your motor and dropping in a carbed 351. More work for a dated system and abosulety no gains.


Just do a google search and learn something...


http://www.aa1car.com/library/copign.htm

 

Yes, boots, coils, and any electrical part, will and can fail, even "IF" the coil is still good. Windings lose umph, rubber dryrots, and if not taken in account water can effect COP's. To remedy this problem, dielectric grease the boots and plugs "ANNUALY".

The main discussion here would be the global COP's. They are just as good as any aftermarket part you may purchase, and, installed properly with dielectric grease they will line your wallet with green instead of moth sh@t. They also are backed by global. If one doesn't work tell them and they will make it right. Yes, you may wait for a day or so for the product to come snail mail, BUT, they stand behing the product. This is common with any electrical part warranty if they are a company worth dealing with. 9 times out of 10 it will be the boots or the windings before it is the COP (I think that is the capitilazed TECHDOC's argument) but with the global price, why the hell not replace them all for that price and be done with it. Heck, you are already tearing it apart in the first place.

Why go with a LONG A$$ EXTENTION CORD, when you can replace junk for that low of a price. Yes, others have called it "HANGIN MORE PARTS ON IT" (right TECHDOC?) and it may be true. BUUUTTTTT!!!!,,,,, for the price why not? Save a few benjamins and get the globals. Put the left over $'s in the fuel tank. That will help you on the mileage you will ask about in a few weeks.

I have one last bit of advise for the TECHDOC with sarcastic issues. Opinionative advise is just that. There is many different opinions than your own, and, most of us do not trust the TECH at the shops in our areas. You may or may not be right about everything, as are the rest of us. BUT, you do have the right to put your 2 cents worth in and I have read all of your posts. You mainly confuse people 65% of the time. This is a trait of local garages to accumulate business. I would advise, telling the truth, on your experiences and what you have done to resolve problems questioned on this site. BTW, we are all here to stay away from the pocket rapers making a living calling themselves technitions and telling the mechanics what to do.

OH!!!! Your sarcasm needs work!

AGAIN (My discalimer, This may or may not be a sarcastic statement. Source of comments can not be held responsible! Void where prohibited, and, all who gets offended may go straddle a goat!)

 

Your idea has merit. To be technical the "COPs" used on the 5.4 are not truly Coil on Plug. They have a wire to bridge the gap from the coil electrode and the spark plug. They are coil near plug. But who cares. There would not be any problem what so ever if you used 8 individual coils and plug wires to replace your COPs. make sure that you over come the obvious issues of correctly wiring the coils so the PCM can fire them. Using the proper coils so they do not fry the PCM but still produce the required 30,000 volts. Installing wires with the least resistance possible. The only draw back I can see, and it was mentioned, is the price. If you do not care about the price you could possibly get a set of super hot coils and realy go to town. A lot of people neglect to change the COP boots when they change plugs and I believe that is what leads to the failure of the COPs. I wash my engine and my COPs lasted to 212,000 kilometers, 131+K miles. I recently purchased a set of Globals so we shall see how long they last.

JMC

 

I bet they last longer than TECHDOC's goat does .

 

ROFL!!!!!

jbrew,

You owe me a French keyboard. I spit my Pepsi all over it and sparks flew.

JMC

 

Sorry buddy That was an impulse post. The first thought that came to mind after I finished reading this thread.

Yea, at times, a "Sippy Cup" won't even save those key boards.

 

There is a lot to this subject so be careful what you say and be accurate.
Take a trip thru history.
1. Original motors "except the Model T and like motors", use one coil to fire all cylinders in the fire order.
2. For years, this system was used until the rpm gets so high the DWELL time becomes a limiting factor and not the output voltage.
3. As time went by, a change to 2,3, 4, 8 and 10 coils to fire the cylinders came in to the design to compliment the ever growing computer and electronic contols for fuel injection. Why? it is DWELL time that is improved by useing mutiple coils that are given more 'core' saturation time to eliminate any chance of missfire as well as possible multi spark capability should it be designed into the operation.
4. Normally is takes between 7000 and 12000 volts to fire a mixture under reasonable air/fuel ratios. At low throttle opening and under light loads, the A/F is made very lean by design. This requires much higher voltage to break down the plug gap, so calls on the coils 'reserve capacity' to provide the voltage of as much as 20,000 to 30,000 volts.
Once the plug gap breaks down, the reserve voltage is waisted due to the low resistance in the plug circuit, loading the coil output down so it cannot provide any higher voltage than what level was used to fire the plug gap.
This is why reports of missing and stumble between 40 and 60 mph is almost always one or more low output coils, when the A/F ratio is at it's highest and requires the most voltage to fire the plugs.
5. The coils are often wound on a circular ferite core. This lowers their interference radiation, make them much faster to saturate, smaller in size, run cooler and have an inductive signiture the computer can use to tell something of what is going on, unlike the big old designs that don't have these attributes.
Coil primary impedence is an important value and must match the PCM switching load requirements or life problems could become an issue

Lastly, I would not want 8 seperate coil leads with any length wire to splash hi voltage signal all over the motor bay and have the PCM pick it up and go into a "FIT" with the interfereing signals they would cause unless they were integrated into the total design like the years these trucks had coil paks..
Even aftermarket ignition systems tell you to use resistance plug wire to help prevent these interfereing signals on a road car. Racing is a different application and often use plug wires with no resistance on a carbed motor.
You really don't want to hook up 8 big coils and have all that interference radiation around and causing interference.
As for spark plugs, they are part of the total design and a seperate subject all their own.