Thanks.. I went ahead and removed the connectors.. Boy those coil's were really on there.. I had the most problems with #6.. Wasnt alot of room to get in there to get the coil off. It was a pretty easy job though.

The old plugs were at .035 to .037, gapped the new ones to .030 and the truck is running great! It has never idled this smooth before. Plus the surging at higher rpm is gone also

 

... and here I am at 41k and need to change, I believe. As others have described, the misfire/hesitation is there when I'm on it.

I guess I needed something (else) to do this weekend.... *eye roll* This is frustrating.... I know it's just par for the course but, it seems like plugs at 40k are way too soon.

 

You must be too young to remember the old days of points and condenser ignition and non-precious metal plugs, which needed to be changed every 12k.

 

Not sure if you did this, but wipe a small bit of dialectric (sp) grease on the inside of the boots for the plugs, it will make the boots slide off easy next time and they won't tear.

 

I might be one of the free people under age 40 that knows what a dwell meter is.

I'll take changing EB plugs every 40k over a 5.4 of any variety every 100k. The plug change on my 2005 was over $600. A plug change on an EB is under $40 even with buying a sixer.

 

Do you know how to use an analog DC voltmeter if you don't have a dwell meter? I used to...........

 

Nope, I've never done that before. I still have a dwell meter somewhere gathering dust. Hopefully it keeps doing that, I don't plan on ever running a points style distributor again. If I was to get something that old I'd change it out in a hurry.

 

Actually... I do know what you're speaking of. However, to say I'm proficient in that realm would be an overstatement.

... oh yeah, I've held a dwell meter too. I didn't make it work but, I held it. That was the day that I removed the thermothrottle from the neutron jack too.

 

I still have two real nice dwell meters. Of course, until recently, I had a 65 Mustang I used them on.

 

That's one thing I liked about GM back then - points were externally adjustable with an allen wrench and a dwell meter. Others you had to do trial and error with a feeler gauge and verifying with the dwell meter.

 

I've heard nothing but good things about the Pertronix kits that replace the points in an old distributor. A good friend of mine ran them in everything he had from a concourse 68 Corvette to his Power Tour cruisers. The fit in the factory distributor and eliminate all the high RPM issues and adjusting that points require. If anyone still has a car with points it would be worth checking into to get rid of them.

 

Way back when, I built and installed a Delta CD ignition kit in my mom's 70 Grand Prix. It still used points, but only as a switch instead of carrying the full ignition current. As long as the cam and rubbing block were properly greased, the points lasted about 50k. Only hassle was you had to bypass the module to adjust the points with a dwell meter.

 

You will have to excuse me a little here, but, what is more reliable than points......certainly not the more popular & common “e-box replacement kits”. Yes you can hear people state "It runs so much smoother/better than when it had points"........in each case that an individual said that in my presence, they had very little knowledge about points and the ones they were running were- old & tired or inexpensive aftermarket replacement units or the individual (including professional mechanic) was unfamiliar with not just setting the gap to OEM specs, but setting the dwell & initial timing to what the engine likes.

But let’s look at the OEM ignition system from the early 60’s….
Original Coil Voltage: 20,000; by the end of the 60’s 40,000 volt high performance coils were common…..by the 70’s 50,000 & 60,000 volt coils were easily available & is what we have today. Did we really gain all sorts of HP/TQ with all this extra voltage…….no, what we were able to gain was stronger support (if you will excuse my terms here) for higher RPM’s- specifically in the 6,000+ range…..enough to power NASCAR engines in the 8,000 rpm range at 200+ mph!

Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did lose a race one time because the ignition points broke. In a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these more common e-box companies, in street applications (where max power-band RPM is around 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg) there is less than 1% improvement in performance. Further testing by independent aftermarket DIS (direct ignition system) manufacturers verify this through their own testing- there is little gain over an ignition points system until you reach 4000 rpm…then you begin to see a slight sustainment of ignition delivery above what points can deliver but it doesn’t even begin to compare to what a “modern”, real e-based system can & does deliver in a real world street (and race) environment.
I am not promoting this product but their analysis is very demonstrative of actual performance results. link: http://www.compu-tronix.com/MightyMo...risonGraph.pdf
The other item is, in a street vehicle, if you wait to see improvement until 4000+ rpm, the race is over.
Here is a link to a back to back ¼ runs- comparison of points vs a couple of e-box conversions……..no discernible difference http://www.vintageperformance.com/re...kets/track.htm

These e-box “conversion kits” have literally the same design limitations as the “conventional points”- because they are essentially using the same delivery system (rotor, cap, wires, etc.) and they are subject to the same inherent design impactors of which there are numerous….including ozone that is produced within the cap…..none of this has by miracle “disappeared” and in fact when compared in true recorded data-frame analysis, the benefit will be gone by 5800 rpm and the loss, although slightly less, parallels that of points. In racing conditions that could very well make a difference, but in a street application, you could literally change brand of fuel and see that level of improvement or degradation. Additionally, there are companies such as ProComp whose “High-Tech Multiple Discharge Ignition Systems” are nothing more than re-boxed low tech conversion parts purchased in bulk from other companies- mostly Chinese-based. Check out this pic http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...p-ignition-box of a “new” ProComp e-ignition system- it’s a glued together GM part stuffed into a pretty aluminum box. Considering they were sued in 2006 by MSD (and prohibited as part of a settlement from using/distributing any of their parts), I’m not surprised by anything I see with their crap….but this includes much of the e-box aftermarket industry- a lot of PR documents which physics does not play any part!

Very good quality ignition points/condensors are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes, then I had them get a good set of points/condenser, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying an e-box, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went “Popular” high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.

While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circuitry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% of the more common/popular e-box company's products originate). Any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil. Yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions. Including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart. And in terms of “Dwell Control” I won’t even go into that in detail but I will say, what the “kits” provide is a joke…..you can actually get more control over the dwell by having an understanding of how to set timing versus dwell setting with points than the most popular e-box conversion kits can provide…..which makes for a very smooth running engine- this is not just IMHO, but well known among the "higher quality" aftermarket engineers whose systems reflect this ability to "tune"!
If you need to say I got rid of my points…ok, that’s fine, but if you are really serious about actually upgrading the ignition system then do so……although it has been scrapped by the OEM’s in favor of more advanced, effective systems, there are aftermarket DIS units (yes the same as Ford used in the 90’s & developed by Porsche in the 80’s) whose cost is within reach of most buyers and will actually perform as stated.

 

Just thinking out loud here.... has anyone considered upgraded coils along with the .30 gapped plugs? I did a couple of quick searches looking around at info and really didn't come up with a lot of info. Any point in doing it?

 

I myself haven't heard of anyone doing coils with the first plug change. Mine went from a rough idle and surging when wide open to running perfect again with just the plugs. Put about 10k on the new plugs and everything is still great. Also in the last month or so seems like alot of recommendations are now for .028 even if the truck is stock.