Mike L: News on 351?
 

I was curious if you have any new info on your swap? Like, the EFI conversion? I am still looking for a 351 now,perferably a compete takeout unit.




[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 02-08-2000).]

Hi there! No news yet... The Ford-power guy isn't doing a very good job of replying to my e-mails, so I'm guessing he doesn't want my money and I'll have to take my business elsewhere...

Will let you know when I do find something out, though...

-Mike

I guess, the way to find out is by trial and error.

Most people I have talked to, only know about the internals in the engine itself...oh well!

Anything in the works on that 351 swap, Pastmaster? I've been looking around... Found a shop in Houston that might take on the job of building a performance engine up for me...

It's going to cost some money. For less than the cost of a new truck--and about 15k less than the cost of a new Lightning--I'll have a truck with almost as good (or maybe even as good) acceleration plus the ability to tow and carry more...

I like...

Anyhow, haven't put this project aside--just waiting on getting the details worked out. Fixing rattles and making the truck more solid right now...

-Mike

Anything in the works on that 351 swap, Pastmaster? I've been looking around... Found a shop in Houston that might take on the job of building a performance engine up for me...

It's going to cost some money. For less than the cost of a new truck--and about 15k less than the cost of a new Lightning--I'll have a truck with almost as good (or maybe even as good) acceleration plus the ability to tow and carry more...

I like...

Anyhow, haven't put this project aside--just waiting on getting the details worked out. Fixing rattles and making the truck more solid right now...

-Mike

Pastmaster,

Checked on the install today... If I have the original fellow build up the engine, I'll have to have another shop yank the old one and install the new... That's about $1500. So here's the current list of expenses:

New 385hp 351: $2900
Hydraulic roller cams: $750
Mass Air Conversion: $600 (approx)
New Computer: $500 (approx)
Installation: $1500 (sounds high)

So I'm up to about $6250... augh... That leaves it up to me to cut corners where I can...

Why would installation fees be so expensive?
$1500 sounds awfully high. I can deal with the expense of swapping the engine--but that last $1500 would be a project killer for me.

Ideas?

-Mike

I think I am going to look for a 351Ho. IT was made from 1984-1987. Very low restriction engine, not very emission friendly, but highly applicable. IT came from the factory with 4180 holley carb. Made 210hp and 330ft/llbs. My dad had one in a 86 matched with a c-6. Got a whole 8 mpg's. He said you could watch the gauge drop.

A friend told me about this, which you also should consider. sell your 302 before you take it out. In otherwords find someone that wants it, and let them here it first. With only 70k miles, you should get at least 800-1000 for it. I have someone already who wants the motor to put in a demolition car.

6250? Thats more than my 89 is worth. I'm guessing around 1100 for mine. buddy thinks he found a engine in Colorado in a 87 van, for 500 bucks. Too much, but only has 80k miles. Can get a rebuild kit from summit for about 400 bucks. I think the HO had a roller cam.

Where do they get the $750 for a roller cam? Summit has a truck cam for a 351w with 226 degree duration lift for 120. $1500 seems way high to me. My friend told me that he's yanked engines out of fords in at least 2-3 hours. I have my work cut out for me switching from a efi to a carb. Lucky thing is that the engine mounts are in the same place. I really can't figure why the installation would be that high. Basically all they have to do is take the old out and put the new on its perches. They may be talking about installation of the computer and etc. I would try to get the installation charges in detail, or maybe even try to give them your old engine, in lieu of the installation charge.

How are you coming along with your springs? Another bad thing about overloads is they cling and clatter when there isn't a load. It gets really annoying when you have the window down...

Another thing. Did they say whether or not they would have to remove the ac parts and then replace them when they do the swap? If so, you probably would end up having to refill the R-12. IF this is the case, you can save money by converting to R-134. I think they convertor is like $30.

[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 02-21-2000).]

Thanks for the heads up... Sounded like $1500 for installation was WAAAAY high to me, too. I am going to have to learn how to do it myself, I think... with the help of the mechanic at the hobby shop on base.

The fellow didn't say anything about the A/C. It's pretty low on refrigerant, though--apparently had a leak at some point. Still works--but not 100%.

Is R-134 the new "environmentally friendlier" freon replacement?

Still working on the springs. Actually, I am hoping to hear from Hellwig. Had asked about using the LP-35 overloads with my truck, but want to wait till I hear back from them before ordering. If those won't work, then I'll settle for the LP-25s, which are for the 1/2 ton pickups anyway...

The RV shop is trying to sell me on air springs (air bags??) I think I'll stick with the overloads and longer shackles... Clang clang...

The Ford-performance shop goes with carbureted engines... They don't do much EFI work... Might end up going non-EFI, though, but that might make for tricky emission issues.

-Mike

Now would be the correct time to do the convert, especially before summer (100 degree heat). It is a tree-hugger friendly thing. I think it's called like CFC-free or something. All vehicles 94 and newer were required to have it. I know, freon is expensive, like $40-50 bucks a can.

You'll save a lot of money going by a carb. My problem is, I know about EFI, but little about carbs. Guess I'll learn. Someone on another site was concerned about emission on his carb-convert. He retard' his timing and put somekind of alcohol in the gas to pass. I can't really remember. They (builders) should be able to help you on that one. I still haven't figured out what carb to go with, I do know it won't be a holley. They are cheap, and fairly efficient, but require constant adjustment, and I want a electric choke. I probably will buy a 600 or lower cfm, Although in your case, you may consider a higher, because of the hp output. think of it this way, mileage from a MA EFI system and a 4-barrel carb arn't much different, and hp will be a tad less with a carb, but I would think you really wouldn't notice a difference.

A friend has a 88 chevy 3/4 4x4, lifted and etc, and he built a 350 from a 68 camaro, bored .030 over, and has a large lobe cam, and he runs a edlebrock EFI system. It cost 2 grand for the system. He claims 500hp, but has had nothing but problems with the system. It is in the shop more than on the road. So I learned to stay away from a setup like that. I don't think they make a EFI for Ford's.

I have seen the airbag system on something, I think it was on a LD F-250. It looks neat, but how efficient is it? What are the limits? Plastic over solid iron/steel? I would be a little worried after awile.

BTW, is your trailer a gooseneck or a bumper pull?

Trailer's a bumper pull. The original owner of the truck had a gooseneck that he pulled... See LOTS of older F-150s around here with gooseneck hitches installed...
They had F-250s back then, too, so why so many F-150s that have been tweaked for heavy-duty stuff??

Anyhow... A new 351W from Ford is $2200. Not bad. Computer is about $250 more. Salvaged intake, etc. for a few bucks, and you're looking at a not-too-expensive NEW engine. I might do this, work out the bugs, and then soup things up in a couple years... Doing the engine swap and performance upgrade at the same time may be too much of a hassle--these things take lots of time to work out the kinks prior to installation.

Have you heard any stories about how well the stock 351 pulls? Particularly in the hills? I'd be getting a '94-'95 engine if I went this route, and would work out the logistics involved in beefing up my AOD.

Thanks,

Mike

Oh, yeah... I've pretty much settled on finding a set of rear springs from an F-250 (circa 1991) and just installing those on my truck, rather than going with bags or overloads... Coupled with longer shackles to give the lift I'm looking for...

-Mike

Mike

My dad had a 1995 F-150 regular cab 2wd with a 351. Of course it pulled better than my 93, he was fustrated and thats how I got the chip. he also had a 94 regular cab with a 302MA equipped. I wouldn't think a stock 351 would pull better than my 302 with a chip. But you may have better results. He was disapointed with his 351. IT got about 16mpg best. We had a 3/4 with a 460 and a 5-speed. Talk about a pull horse. He has a CrewCab 250 with a V-10, and I think the 460 pulled better but, got at least 3-4 mpgs worse. Eh? A new engine is a good idea, you get a warantee. Thats accounting for something. A 351 MA engine has about 330ft/lbs. Equil with the 5.4L. Its 50ft/lbs more than a 302.

Several people around here have 351's in their pickups, either 5-speeds or autos. The don't complain about hills killing them, they pull huge stock trailers and etc usually gooseneck. 4:10 ls gears. Ever ridden in a older 3/4ton or 1-ton SRW like ours. They are terribly rough riding. You know your in a truck. I guess people build F-150's because there more comfortable, and they like shortbeds.

[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 02-24-2000).]

Still thinking about just sticking with rebuilding the 302 into more of a performance engine... The 351 will be a chore, and there may not be a big difference in performance after all's said and done...

Got my butt kicked by a diesel tonight, so this 302 is going to have to wake up... THAT was pretty embarrassing--but at least it waren't a shovie...

-Mike

The 5.0L is a small engine, you shouldn't compare it with a 460 or even a diesel. 500ft/lbs to a 270ft/lbs, even with the weight factor is going to rip us a new one. But the 302 is a good motor, just stock sucks, on anything for that matter. I know what you mean by stock being gutless. I drove a friends 90 302/AOD last weekend, which is completely stock. PU! I didn't realize stock was that bad. The main reason I would go with a 351 is because it is cheaper to get more hp out of it than a 302 would be. Really there isn't much of a difference, the blocks are the same except for the taller deck height on a 351. I got my 4-wheel and off road yesterday, and they're building a 355 out of a 302 with 400 ft/lbs and I think 373 hp. Thats badA$$ but the block walls must be paper thin. I think its bored .0400 over. Bad news. Thats a 500 mile engine.

Our major problem is with the Ga% Speed Density EFI system. We're basically out of luck, unless we spend $600 to get a switchover.

The 351W has a different firing order than the other Windsor engines. That might throw a kink in things on a computer controlled vehicle. You may have to go with a 302 cam and distributor to get your computer to work properly or get a computer from a pickup with a 351W.

[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 03-02-2000).]