OK, Now I'm pi$$ed off (Sorry long rant)
 

I hope no one here went to Brown University, and if you did I hope you didn't have to listen to this a$$hole William Beeman :mad:. If YOU Mr. Beeman happen to own an L and read this (God I hope you don't own an L), you may want to thank ALL of us vets that have given you this land of the free to call your home. Anyway I got this on email and I just went out of control. I am going to write Brown University and tell them about all of my friends that I lost in the fight to keep this country free.
I am so f@%*ing pissed off right now at these pricks that sit up there on there high horse never having been in any kind of struggle to survive. I hope he's patting osama on the butt goodnight when we get that rat bastard. Sorry for the rant. Exhale....................................


>Subject: Understanding Osama bin Laden
>Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:34:56 -0700
>
>Understanding Osama bin Laden
>William O. Beeman, Pacific News Service
>September 12, 2001
>
>Providence, Rhode Island -- The United States risks a severe
>miscalculation
>in dealing with the destruction of the World Trade Center and the attack
>on the
>Pentagon on Tuesday.
>
>This event is not an isolated instance of violence. This is not an "act
>of
>war." It is one symptom of a cancer that threatens to metastasize.
>
>The root cause is not terrorist activity, as has been widely stated. It
>is
>the relationship between the United States and the Islamic world. Until
>this
>central cancerous problem is treated, Americans will never be free from
>fear.
>
>Merely locating and hunting down a single "guilty party" in this case
>will
>not stop future violence: such an action will not destroy the
>organization of
>terrorist cells already established throughout the world. Of greater
>importance, it will do nothing to alleviate the residual enmity against
>America.
>
>The perpetrators of the original attack on the World Trade Center in
>1993
>were caught and convicted. This did not stop the attack on Tuesday.
>
>The chief suspect is the Saudi Arabian Osama bin Laden, or his
>surrogates.
>He has been mischaracterized as an anti-American terrorist. He should
>rather be
>thought of as someone who would do anything to protect Islam.
>
>Bin Laden began his career fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan
>in
>1979, when he was 22 years old. He has not only resisted the Soviets,
>but
>also the Serbians in Yugoslavia. His anger was directed against the
>United States
>primarily because of the U.S. presence in the Gulf region, more
>particularly
>in Saudi Arabia itself -- the site of the most sacred Islamic religious
>sites.
>
>According to bin Laden, during the Gulf War America co-opted the rulers
>of
>Saudi Arabia to establish a military presence in order to kill Muslims
>in Iraq. In
>a religious decree issued in 1998, he gave religious legitimacy to
>attacks on
>Americans in order to stop the United States from "occupying the lands
>of
>Islam in the holiest of places." His decree also extends to Jerusalem,
>home of the
>sacred Muslim site the al-Aqsa Mosque.
>
>Bin Laden will not cease his opposition until the United States leaves
>the
>region. Paradoxically, his strategy for convincing the United States to
>do
>so seems drawn from the American foreign policy playbook. When the
>United
>States disapproves of the behavior of another nation, it "turns up the
>heat" on
>that nation through embargoes, economic sanctions or withdrawal of
>diplomatic
>representation. In the case of Iraq following the Gulf War, America
>employed
>military action, resulting in the loss of civilian life.
>
>The State Department has theorized that if the people of a rogue nation
>experience enough suffering, they will overthrow their rulers, or compel
>
>them to adopt more sensible behavior. The terrorist actions in New York
>and Washington are a clear and ironic implementation of this strategy
>against the
>United States.
>
>Bin Laden takes no credit for actions emanating from his training camps
>in
>Afghanistan. A true ideologue, he believes that his mission is sacred,
>and
>he wants only to see clear results. For this reason, the structure of
>his
>organization is essentially tribal, or cellular, in modern political
>terms.
>His followers are as fervent and intense in their belief as he is. They
>carry
>out their actions because they believe in the rightness of their cause,
>not
>because of bin Laden's orders or approval. Groups are trained in
>Afghanistan, and then establish their own centers in places as far-flung
>as Canada, Africa and Europe. Each cell is technologically
>sophisticated, and may have a different set of motivations for attacking
>the United States.
>
>Palestinian members of his group see Americans as supporters of Israel
>in
>the current conflict between the two nations. In the Palestinian view,
>Ariel
>Sharon's ascendancy to leadership of Israel has triggered a new era,
>with
>U.S. government officials failing to pressure the Israeli government to
>end
>violence against Palestinians. Palestinian cell members will not cease
>their
>opposition until the United States changes its relationship with the
>Israeli state.
>
>Above all, Americans need to remember that the rest of the world has an
>absolute right to self-determination that is as defensible as our own. A
>despicable
>act of terror such as that committed in New York and Washington is a
>measure of
>the revulsion that others feel at U.S. actions that seemingly limit
>those rights. If
>we perpetuate a cycle of hate and revenge, this conflict will escalate
>into
>a war that our great-grandchildren will be fighting.
>
>William O. Beeman is a specialist on Middle East culture at Brown
>University. He has worked for the past four years in Tajikistan, where he has monitored developments in Afghanistan.

As the old saying goes, "if it looks and smells like a turd, it is one..."

If this guy is so into bin Laden and his 'rights', then perhaps he should move :mad:

FWIW the president of Brown was on tv last night praising Bush's speech and the direction he was taking. Not all of the academic types are choking in the thin air of their ivory towers.

Bin Laden is a common thug, using religion as camoflauge, i hope Mr Beeman is near one of our vapor bombs when is goes off over there. those things can change ones mind forever, besides, they are totally awesome, and are made of 100% mid-eastern oil products, so they can't say were not giving back to the region.

If you read the text carefully ..... ( Putting on my flame suit)

The points he makes are good. The research published in the newspaper supports it. While Bin Laden may be the head of the group that was behind the current attacks, Terrorism is like a hydra, it has MANY heads. We need to NOT only take out the head that is currently attacking BUT also figure out ( if possible ) the reasons behind the attacks.

If Beeman is correct, then we may not be wiling to pull out of the mid east and we may continue to see other zealots follow in Bin Ladens footsteps.

If it is determined that "the United States ..... relationship with the Israeli state. " is the cause of the terrorism against us then we have to be ready to solve the problems that come from that.

The point Beeman may be trying to make is that treating the Symptoms does not cure the disease. .

My $0.02

Doug

PS with the current state of the forum and the number of negative / abusive threads lately - It would be helpful if we were more on topic. I know that the WTC events are still on everyones minds but part of healing is to get back in to a normal rhythm as much as possible.

Don't know about Mr. Beeman, but my way of dealing with these thugs is NUKE the MFers and let the chips fall where they may. As Rambo said, "They drew first blood in my country" Just my .02

OK I got my flame suit on too.

I don't think Beeman said anything terribly wrong, I think its a good idea to understand who your dealing with, whats on there mind and what are they capable of.

In other words get to know your enemy, Beleive me it makes it much easier to kick there ass.
Dale

I am lost as to why this outraged redneck so much. This war on terrorism is a complicated one and the course of action we take must be well planned and laid out in light of the reallities of human nature.

As I read Mr. Beemans words, I didn't see him praising Bin laden....I saw him offering his insight on how this war should be approached.

For the sake of our soldiers, our country, my son and your children....I hope President Bush has a plan that considers all information including the Beemans of the world, the Colin Powells, Cheny, and everyone else he has in his administration.

We are all screwed if his entire plan consists of something as simplistic as "nuke 'em all". By the way...Rambo was not a real person.

Don't misunderstand....we might all, including me, feel better for a while if we flatten Afganastan and kill every poor sucker who was unlucky enough to be born and live in the same country that Bin Laden has adopted. The only problem is that if we had done that a year ago it wouldn't have prevented what happened 9-11-01. And doing it next week (if it's all we do) won't stop all future acts of terrorism.

I agree with the whole 'know your enemy' bit... William Beeman seems to have a firm grasp of his opinion.

Still, I agree that noncombatants should be protected to an extent.
I agree that collateral damage and losses are inevitable, though.

Being aware of this responsibility is the job of the President and our elected officials.
They stood in unity last night.


Justice shall be served!
Semper Fi

Now that I've calmed down abit, let me explain why. YES, I do now the advantages of knowing your enemy.
Let me show you some quotes from Mr. Beeman:
When you attack a country and inflict this kind of damage to civilians, what would you call it, "a syptom of cancer"? It was an act of war in 1941 and it is an act of war in 2001.
Again BS. They are not happy with us just leaving meca and denouncing the Israeli's. They do not respect you because of your religious beliefs and your way of life.
I am NOT in FEAR. I would tell them they better be. I have been involved in many insertions and my units NEVER LOST...NEVER. We have far more talent and resources now than when I was serving too.
Such as kill innocent women and children? If we do the same WE are cowards and the only way we do that is by accident. Although it is war and innocent people do die in war, BUT ARE NOT LOOKED AT AS TARGETS..AT LEAST BY US.
Protecting Islam? What a joke, we were the ones to supply aid to the Islams against the Russians. Aid for you who don't know means weapons, training, advisors, and most importantly $$$. We supported the bastard to "protect Islam". He's out for himself not Islam. He enjoys being a public figure. And his justice will come....at the end of a .50 cal from 2000 meters.
"Ideologue" or Idealist - means to be an adherent of a philosophical theory of idealism.
Yes, I guess he is. Except they are HIS ideals NOT ISLAM
Its easy to get people who are EXTREMELY poor to follow you in the name of Alah. These people THINK they are fighting in the name of Alah, when in fact they are fighting for osama's cause. Look at the dictators over time who have done this: Hitler, Mow Si Tong, Stalin, Adi Amen. All these men had "fervent and intense followers". Its easy to get upset, disillusioned teenagers and get them to "fight for a cause".
Well he's right here. BUT, freedom does not come free. It will be and has been a fight and will remain beyond the rest of our lives a fight for freedom.
Ok rant over sorry for the length...but you asked why :D

well, if nothing else redneck, you seem to grasp this better than you grasp thermodynamics.....hehe

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=47209

Redneck, I'm with you all the way!!!!!!!!


God Bless America

Jerry Jordan

Quote:
Above all, Americans need to remember that the rest of the world has an absolute right to self-determination that is as defensible as our own. A despicable act of terror such as that committed in New York and Washington is a measure of the revulsion that others feel at U.S. actions that seemingly limit those rights. End-Quote.

Not true...only recognized countries have a right to sovereignty on their soil. Bin Laden is not the representative of ANY country, and he does not have the authority to choose targets that are outside the boundry of ANY treaty. This is a typical tactic of organizations that do not have any property, and whose only 'kingdom' exists in their own mind.

Quote:
If we perpetuate a cycle of hate and revenge, this conflict will escalate into a war that our great-grandchildren will be fighting. End-quote.

This is a war that our forefathers fought, our generation is fighting, and children born into the free world will always have to fight. Wake up and smell the coffee, the have-nots will use whatever excuse they can to get something from the haves. The world's dictators and religious extremists will always choose the most obvious target to pin their misfortunes and shortcomings on. And the USA will always be there to balance the scales.

Osama bin Laden is just the catalyst to bring in the next era of warfare. Until China or another nation has the total military package equal to the USA's, this is the near future of warfare. The only difference is that this time it won't be fought exclusively on foreign soil. Mr Beeman, and others who unknowingly benefit from the war that America has always been involved in, may yet pay the ultimate price for freedom.

Osama may be coming to your neighborhood, so go ahead and exercise your freedom of speech while you still can...

God Bless America!!!

Redneck

Sounds not only like a threat but the same gobblygook that that is coming from the terrorists camps.

Do you have a picture of him?

Jim

Great President...
 

Am I mistaken, or did our President, who in my opinion is doing an incredible job handling this tragedy, and who has delivered several speeches that have further strengthened the American people, US. In atleast one of his speeches, I am almost for certain Bush has said that it isn't going in and blowing up "a single party. I think he has said that the war we are fighting is against terrorism in General. The same terrorism that happens to innocent middle easterners and OUR embassies in those and other countries. Heck yeah, this was an attack on OUR country, and anyone who hasn't been upset this past several days is either a heartless bastard, as quoted by many senators, unamerican or an extreme pacifist. Redneck, I agree with you. Keep it real...MEEK

OK Dr. Spock your right I said the wrong word. :( I should have said AREODYNAMICS. I wish I only had half of your IQ, you are the greatest. :rolleyes:
At least I can see through bleeding heart fools like Mr. Beeman, wereas YOU Mr. Logical cannot. You and Mr. Beeman both think your freedom is a right, well it is not. It is a privilege. Have you ever experienced (first hand) terrorism? I have experience with it and I have also experienced fighting for MY (our) freedom.
Didn't I already mention you people that sit on your high horse? Let me tell you what you can do - graphic language Edited