Alignment Specs
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 113
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From: Apopka, FL USA
Alignment Specs
I need to get both the factory and the SVT "Special" front end specs for my 99.5 Lightning. I had the truck to the dealer today for the clunk in the front end. They lubed the steering knuckle stops and it went away but they weren't able to get it on the rack for the alignment (too many in before me). I'll take it to a local tire shop that I trust but I want to make sure I have the specs. I'm sure they don't have the Lighning in the alignment machine's data base.
Thanks
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Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
[This message has been edited by Mark W (edited 12-03-1999).]
Thanks
------------------
Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
- 99.5 White Lightning (stock)
- 99 Buell S3 Thunderbolt (not stock!)
- 98 F-150 Lariat (Flowmaster)
- 96 26' Velocity Offshore Race Boat (far from stock!!!)
[This message has been edited by Mark W (edited 12-03-1999).]
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 450
Likes: 1
From: Midwest
Mark, these are the Lightning specs:
L.H. Caster: 6.9, +/- 1.0 Deg.
R.H. Caster: 7.4, +/- 1.0 Deg.
L.H. Camber: -0.5, +/- 0.7 Deg.
R.H. Camber: -0.5, +/- 0.7 Deg.
L.H. Toe: -0.05, +/- 0.15
R.H. Toe: -0.05, +/- 0.15
Base F150: (tolerances same as above)
L.H. Caster: 6.2
R.H. Caster: 6.7
L.H. Camber: -0.3
R.H. Camber: -0.3
L.H. Toe: 0.03
R.H. Toe: 0.03
Whoever does your alignments, try to get them to spend a few extra minutes to get as close to nominal as possible. This will help to avoid pulling issues which is already exaggerated by the width of our tires.
I hope that this helps!!
------------------
99 Lightning, Black, CD
changer, Downey SST tonneau, Class 3 hitch, Ford bed mat, tinted back window.
DOB: 4-28-99, ordered 12-27-98
Build #694
My one really cool toy..
(except my Mercury Parklane "hobby")
SVT RULES THE ROAD!!!!!
L.H. Caster: 6.9, +/- 1.0 Deg.
R.H. Caster: 7.4, +/- 1.0 Deg.
L.H. Camber: -0.5, +/- 0.7 Deg.
R.H. Camber: -0.5, +/- 0.7 Deg.
L.H. Toe: -0.05, +/- 0.15
R.H. Toe: -0.05, +/- 0.15
Base F150: (tolerances same as above)
L.H. Caster: 6.2
R.H. Caster: 6.7
L.H. Camber: -0.3
R.H. Camber: -0.3
L.H. Toe: 0.03
R.H. Toe: 0.03
Whoever does your alignments, try to get them to spend a few extra minutes to get as close to nominal as possible. This will help to avoid pulling issues which is already exaggerated by the width of our tires.
I hope that this helps!!
------------------
99 Lightning, Black, CD
changer, Downey SST tonneau, Class 3 hitch, Ford bed mat, tinted back window.
DOB: 4-28-99, ordered 12-27-98
Build #694
My one really cool toy..
(except my Mercury Parklane "hobby")
SVT RULES THE ROAD!!!!!
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Hi Everyone. New Lightning owner-to-be and new to this forum. Great bunch so far. I've learned alot about Lightnings from here and just how much dough I will shell out on extras as well, just as soon as my baby comes in.
The alignment specs that LightningKid posted made me wonder. I have some experience tuning race car chassis and the caster differences from left to right would seem to make the truck pull to the right. I have read that several of you have experienced a slight pull to the right. This may not be the answer to the problem but it could lead to a slight pull even when everything is set according spec.:
Having more (positive) caster on the right would move the RF wheel towards the back of the truck (as compared to the LF) thereby shortning the wheelbase on the right side of the truck. Having a shorter wheelbase on one side makes the vehicle turn better to that side. This is how I setup my oval track cars.
Unless there is something I am missing, I question the caster differences from left to right that the factory recommends.
Just my 2 cents...
The alignment specs that LightningKid posted made me wonder. I have some experience tuning race car chassis and the caster differences from left to right would seem to make the truck pull to the right. I have read that several of you have experienced a slight pull to the right. This may not be the answer to the problem but it could lead to a slight pull even when everything is set according spec.:
Having more (positive) caster on the right would move the RF wheel towards the back of the truck (as compared to the LF) thereby shortning the wheelbase on the right side of the truck. Having a shorter wheelbase on one side makes the vehicle turn better to that side. This is how I setup my oval track cars.
Unless there is something I am missing, I question the caster differences from left to right that the factory recommends.
Just my 2 cents...
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 450
Likes: 1
From: Midwest
Hi AweStruck, hows it going? I would
agree with you on the caster split
observation, but when I got my front
end realigned to these specs, my pull
problems all went away. The truck
goes down the road straight as an
arrow.....
These are specs from SVE and they seem to keep the pulling gremlins at bay.
When do you take delivery on your
truck? I'm sure you will enjoy it
alot, it's a wild feeling to drive
these beasts. I am hoping that alot
of the weird little flukes that have
been reported here will be solved for
the'00 model year!
L8R
------------------
99 Lightning, Black, CD
changer, Downey SST tonneau, Class 3 hitch, Ford bed mat, tinted back window.
DOB: 4-28-99, ordered 12-27-98
Build #694
My one really cool toy..
(except my Mercury Parklane "hobby")
SVT RULES THE ROAD!!!!!
[This message has been edited by LightningKid (edited 12-08-1999).]
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Apopka, FL USA
Hey Kid, I called SVT and the only numbers they have are the base F-150 numbers. He claimed he was reading directly from the Lightning addendum to the service manual. He knew nothing about the other numbers you gave me. That doesn't suprise me but I'm curious where you got those numbers from.
Your numbers are more aggresive and should make the truck handle better but at the expense of shorter tire life. What is your experience with the new settings and did you notice any improvement in the cornering and on-center feel?
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Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
[This message has been edited by Mark W (edited 12-07-1999).]
Your numbers are more aggresive and should make the truck handle better but at the expense of shorter tire life. What is your experience with the new settings and did you notice any improvement in the cornering and on-center feel?
------------------
Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
- 99.5 White Lightning (stock)
- 99 Buell S3 Thunderbolt (not stock!)
- 98 F-150 Lariat (Flowmaster)
- 96 26' Velocity Offshore Race Boat (far from stock!!!)
[This message has been edited by Mark W (edited 12-07-1999).]
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 450
Likes: 1
From: Midwest
Mark, the specs came from an suspension ride and handling engineer at SVE. My truck had the shim kit installed by the dealer to correct the left pull problem that some of the earlier 99 lightnings had.
Unfortunatly for me, the dealership did not install the shims correctly which resulted in a major pull to the right. I finally was able to get it realigned properly which has corrected my pulling problem.
It figures that you did not get very far with those whiz bang people by phone. They do not seem to helpfull or knowlegeable to me. I have picked up more info. here on this forum than they could (or would) give by phone.
I only have 2900 miles on my truck and do not race it but I can say from a subjective point of view that this truck handles better now than the truck that I test drove. The way that I see it, the tolerances that are given more than accomodate for the nomnal specs. that I was given for lightning. We'll see about tire wear.....
THe gear box that is in our trucks is "off the shelf" meaning that it is the mainstream box that you would find in the standard f150 2WD. As a result of the wider tires, I suspect that the numb on center feel is amplified.
I think that it may improve somewhat with the base f150 toe settings, but that would most certainly affect tire wear.
Good luck!!
------------------
99 Lightning, Black, CD
changer, Downey SST tonneau, Class 3 hitch, Ford bed mat, tinted back window,clear headlight/ foglight lenses, Pioneer speakers.
DOB: 4-28-99, ordered 12-27-98
Build #694
My one really cool toy..
(except my Mercury Parklane "hobby")
SVT RULES THE ROAD!!!!!
Unfortunatly for me, the dealership did not install the shims correctly which resulted in a major pull to the right. I finally was able to get it realigned properly which has corrected my pulling problem.
It figures that you did not get very far with those whiz bang people by phone. They do not seem to helpfull or knowlegeable to me. I have picked up more info. here on this forum than they could (or would) give by phone.
I only have 2900 miles on my truck and do not race it but I can say from a subjective point of view that this truck handles better now than the truck that I test drove. The way that I see it, the tolerances that are given more than accomodate for the nomnal specs. that I was given for lightning. We'll see about tire wear.....
THe gear box that is in our trucks is "off the shelf" meaning that it is the mainstream box that you would find in the standard f150 2WD. As a result of the wider tires, I suspect that the numb on center feel is amplified.
I think that it may improve somewhat with the base f150 toe settings, but that would most certainly affect tire wear.
Good luck!!
------------------
99 Lightning, Black, CD
changer, Downey SST tonneau, Class 3 hitch, Ford bed mat, tinted back window,clear headlight/ foglight lenses, Pioneer speakers.
DOB: 4-28-99, ordered 12-27-98
Build #694
My one really cool toy..
(except my Mercury Parklane "hobby")
SVT RULES THE ROAD!!!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1
From: Palm Coast, FL
Hey Mark, Sal here. As per your request, I checked into the Lightning alinment specs today at work. The specs that LightningKid posted aren't some special specs to "fix" any pulling issues or improve handling, those specs are standard Lightning specs right out of the service manual. The base F-150 specs are also correct. There currently is no TSB, or SSM (special service message) concerning the Lightning alignment, and the tech hotline does not have any new specs either.
------------------
SAL
13.35@103mph
All stock with PSP 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit
Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html
------------------
SAL
13.35@103mph
All stock with PSP 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit
Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Apopka, FL USA
Hey Sal, thanks
I have some new information, straight from a little birdie at SVE, NOT SVT.
He let me in on some things regarding the alignment that aren't published and should not be considered Ford's official line. IN fact, we shouldn't even be having this conversation
1. Most of the trucks do not have the cam bolts on the upper control arm bushings (cost savings by what he called "mainstream"). Some early ones got 4 cams (2 on each side) some got 2 cams and most got none.
2. The bolt hole on the rear of the drivers side lower control arm is elongated to allow for a factory setting of the Caster stagger (.5 deg)to help eliminate a pull on crowned roads. It's then tightened up but no blocking plate is installed to keep its setting. Almost every one WILL move and throw the alignment out. Mine moved and put over 8deg of caster in the left side. He suggested backing off the nut, cleaning off the frame wax with a brush and brake cleaner, installing a star washer (or lock washer) then tightening the thing down as tight as you can. An alternate suggestion was to tack weld the bolt head (it has a built in washer) to the frame. The weld could always be popped later if the bolt had to come off. Another alternative was to fabricate piece of metal that was bolted or drilled to the frame and drilled out like a washer to let the bolt pass though it.
3. Install cam bolts (it's a kit with a ford P/N, my alignment shop has them in stock) on all 4 upper control arm mounting points thus giving you complete adjustability that will lock into place.
4. Use these specs for best all around driving! (note: I don't believe in tolerences, there's no reason, with the cams, you can't get the numbers perfect)
LH Caster 6.7
RH Caster 7.2
LH Camber -0.5
RH Camber -0.5
LH Toe -0.05 (slight toe in)
RH Toe -0.05 (same)
5. Change Camber and Toe to these numbers for autocross, etc.
LH Camber -0.7
RH Camber -0.7
LH Toe OUT 0.05
RH Toe OUT 0.05
These will give better turn in response but cause more tire wear and less "on center" feel on the highway.
To Awestruck, we checked our notes again, me and the SVE engineer, and + Caster moves the wheel to the front of the centerline, thus increasing anti-dive and turning grip and lengthening the wheelbase. Cars with + Caster they will pull to the lower number. He even suggested adding .7 degrees of stagger down here in FL since our roads are the most crowned in the country. I'm sticking with the .5 stagger since I'm usually in the left lane passing everyone
------------------
Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
I have some new information, straight from a little birdie at SVE, NOT SVT.
He let me in on some things regarding the alignment that aren't published and should not be considered Ford's official line. IN fact, we shouldn't even be having this conversation
1. Most of the trucks do not have the cam bolts on the upper control arm bushings (cost savings by what he called "mainstream"). Some early ones got 4 cams (2 on each side) some got 2 cams and most got none.
2. The bolt hole on the rear of the drivers side lower control arm is elongated to allow for a factory setting of the Caster stagger (.5 deg)to help eliminate a pull on crowned roads. It's then tightened up but no blocking plate is installed to keep its setting. Almost every one WILL move and throw the alignment out. Mine moved and put over 8deg of caster in the left side. He suggested backing off the nut, cleaning off the frame wax with a brush and brake cleaner, installing a star washer (or lock washer) then tightening the thing down as tight as you can. An alternate suggestion was to tack weld the bolt head (it has a built in washer) to the frame. The weld could always be popped later if the bolt had to come off. Another alternative was to fabricate piece of metal that was bolted or drilled to the frame and drilled out like a washer to let the bolt pass though it.
3. Install cam bolts (it's a kit with a ford P/N, my alignment shop has them in stock) on all 4 upper control arm mounting points thus giving you complete adjustability that will lock into place.
4. Use these specs for best all around driving! (note: I don't believe in tolerences, there's no reason, with the cams, you can't get the numbers perfect)
LH Caster 6.7
RH Caster 7.2
LH Camber -0.5
RH Camber -0.5
LH Toe -0.05 (slight toe in)
RH Toe -0.05 (same)
5. Change Camber and Toe to these numbers for autocross, etc.
LH Camber -0.7
RH Camber -0.7
LH Toe OUT 0.05
RH Toe OUT 0.05
These will give better turn in response but cause more tire wear and less "on center" feel on the highway.
To Awestruck, we checked our notes again, me and the SVE engineer, and + Caster moves the wheel to the front of the centerline, thus increasing anti-dive and turning grip and lengthening the wheelbase. Cars with + Caster they will pull to the lower number. He even suggested adding .7 degrees of stagger down here in FL since our roads are the most crowned in the country. I'm sticking with the .5 stagger since I'm usually in the left lane passing everyone
------------------
Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net
- 99.5 White Lightning (stock)
- 99 Buell S3 Thunderbolt (not stock!)
- 98 F-150 Lariat (Flowmaster)
- 96 26' Velocity Offshore Race Boat (far from stock!!!)
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
To Mark W.:
Hmmm...I think the SVE engineer is mistaken. I'm certainly not a chassis engineer (software engineer by trade) but I have alot of experience in setting up race cars. I'm usually humble and reserved but I just can't let this one go.
Positive caster is defined as moving the top of the spindle rearward of the centerline of the spindle, towards the rear of the vehile, NOT forward of the centerline. This does indeed increase anti-dive characteristics and turn-in quality but SHORTENS the wheelbase on that side of the vehicle. I fight this everytime our car goes through tech. They measure wheelbase and of course, I am right at the minimum, sometines too short. Unless the Lightning has a non-conventional a-arm/spindle design, + caster will always be movement of the top of the spindle towards the rear of the vehicle.
Positive caster also improves high-speed stability. Look at the wheels of a shopping cart. They are setup with positive caster for stability. Notice how the wheels lag behind the centerline of the "spindle"? You wouldn't catch me in a shopping cart at 140 MPH though. I'll reserve that for the extreme junkies. In a Lightning however...
To LightningKid:
I should take delivery on my '00 in early February, a white one. I have never driven one but from all of the experiences posted here, I'm just jonesin for a 0 to 140 blast. I just love this stuff...
Hmmm...I think the SVE engineer is mistaken. I'm certainly not a chassis engineer (software engineer by trade) but I have alot of experience in setting up race cars. I'm usually humble and reserved but I just can't let this one go.
Positive caster is defined as moving the top of the spindle rearward of the centerline of the spindle, towards the rear of the vehile, NOT forward of the centerline. This does indeed increase anti-dive characteristics and turn-in quality but SHORTENS the wheelbase on that side of the vehicle. I fight this everytime our car goes through tech. They measure wheelbase and of course, I am right at the minimum, sometines too short. Unless the Lightning has a non-conventional a-arm/spindle design, + caster will always be movement of the top of the spindle towards the rear of the vehicle.
Positive caster also improves high-speed stability. Look at the wheels of a shopping cart. They are setup with positive caster for stability. Notice how the wheels lag behind the centerline of the "spindle"? You wouldn't catch me in a shopping cart at 140 MPH though. I'll reserve that for the extreme junkies. In a Lightning however...
To LightningKid:
I should take delivery on my '00 in early February, a white one. I have never driven one but from all of the experiences posted here, I'm just jonesin for a 0 to 140 blast. I just love this stuff...
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver,BC,Canada
I still don't get this completely. We have 2 values for LH Caster : 6.7 & 6.9.
And 2 values for RH Caster : 7.2 & 7.4.
In both cases there is a 0.5 difference between the front wheels, with the RH side being the shorter ?!!
That will make the vehicle pull to the right, except if positive castor means the wheel moves forward. Then I could see the 0.5 difference compensating for the crown in the road.
If you set the wheels the same, would that mean you would have to correct the steering the same amount when you are in the left lane on the highway, as when you are in the right lane ?
Also, for driving on snow/ice, the ice forms level (!) and it helps if the vehicle steers neutral.
Any other insights ?
------------------
99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip
And 2 values for RH Caster : 7.2 & 7.4.
In both cases there is a 0.5 difference between the front wheels, with the RH side being the shorter ?!!
That will make the vehicle pull to the right, except if positive castor means the wheel moves forward. Then I could see the 0.5 difference compensating for the crown in the road.
If you set the wheels the same, would that mean you would have to correct the steering the same amount when you are in the left lane on the highway, as when you are in the right lane ?
Also, for driving on snow/ice, the ice forms level (!) and it helps if the vehicle steers neutral.
Any other insights ?
------------------
99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip