I filled up half a tank of diesel in my 2005 F250 this morning for an out of town trip from Charlotte to Raleigh and back at the Pilot Truck Stop on I-85 in Kannaoplis, just north of Charlotte. The reason I stopped there is their diesel was $2.69 a gallon compared with $3.19 a gallon at other places here Charlotte NC.

On the trip, I noticed my engine was not running as smoothly as normal, and has even skipped several times. Also, my highway gas miles was down about 3 miles per gallon from what I normally get on the highway. When I stopped for a rest break, I noticed the tail pipe was completely black and even the back bumper was black from the exhaust.

I have not had any other problems to date with the F250 which if 4 months old and has 5000 miles on it.

I stopped at the station on the way back in this evening to talk to them about my problem, and they were selling red dyed diesel and had been cleared to do so. (relative to hurricane fuel situation). Is this a true statement? I would not have gotten the red diesel if I knew that was the reason the price was .50 a gallon cheaper.

So here is my question:

Can the red dye in the diesel cause the problems that I am speaking of ?

Should I get the remainder of the diesel pumped from the tank or just go back to buying diesel at Petro Express where I had been purchasing it ?

Your advice is appreciated.

 

Red dye (or ag diesel) is no different other than having no highway tax for off road use. Could have been sittin around and gone stale, and nothin to do with being ag diesel. Fill it up with some fresh at your normal source, and if your worried change your fuel filter.

Adrianspeeder

 

I might be wrong, but I think in 2004 Desiel fuel requirement changed. New trucks have to pass a certain Smog test before they can be sold. Cat, Cumming, ect.... all had to redesign their engines. I think that Fuel companies had to reformulate Deisel fuel to help reduce Sulfer emissions and some thing about them having to refine it alot more then they used too because of the new engines running hotter then before...{ I guess the old Deisel was leaving some kind of deposits in the engines}

How ever, Ag equipment doesnt have to pass Smog tests. I know that the trucks stops had to be cleared by the EPA before they could start selling AG fuel?

I might be wrong adrian, But I think the red die stuff might actually be a little different?

wharrell, It is perfectly legal. The feds, IRS, and EPA all gave the go ahead in 28 states for them to sell AG fuel.

If I were you, I would try to avoid it. At least dont fill up on it. Put maybe 5 gallons in it and go down the road to some other station and try to get the good stuff. I would run a good injecter cleaner in your next tank too.


I filled up at the T/A truck stop in Duncan South Carolina. The next week I had a bad injector and 2 clogged EGR valves???? On a 2004. Granted it has 240 thousand miles on it and I ran almost 300 gallons of DYE fuel but I never had a problem before??


It might just be a coincidents, But I find a red Dye tag at another Truck stop Im going down the road to find some thing else if I can.

 

Red dyed diesel is exactly the same as any other diesel. They both come from the same nozzle at the refinery and the dye is added as its pumped into the tanker truck. It used to be that the red dyed diesel had a slightly higher sulfer content which would help since thats what provides the lubricity ot the system. Anymore the only difference is the color of the dye applied. Ag engines still have to comply to the same standards, so that idea goes kaput. I work for CNH in product test for flagship combines and our division, along with everyone else is having to make our engines Tier III emissions compliant. Deere and Cat/Agco, are the same way. If the fuel was making the truck run rough it was due to the conditions in the storage tank, or the age of the diesel. I would put my money on the age being the problem. Most likely this station sells offroad diesel normally and they had some on hand and began selling that through the rest of the pumps, so it has most likely been sitting longer.

 

Ok, I'll buy that.

 

Be careful running red dyed diesel as the only reason it is red dyed is to show that is for OFF ROAD USE ONLY now it will burn fine in your truck but you will not like the fine if mr police man pulls you over and sticks your tank. The reason i say this is off road fuel is that. There is no highway use tax for off road fuel as there is on the other that is the only diff.

 

28 states have temporarily suspended that rule. It doesnt apply.

 

but what happens if you cross into a state that hasn't suspended the rule?

 

Gee, I dont know???

Show them your fuel receipt?????

 

The last I heard is was not a state decision, as these taxes are applied at the federal level. All 50 states would allow the sales of red dyed diesel for on road use as stated in an IRS posting. I'll see if I can dig it up again. Unfortunetly there is no way to prove where a particular tank of diesel was purchased. The big problem is going to be when they stop this as it takes several tanks of fuel to get rid of the red coloration that remains behind in the tank. More than likely what will end up happening is that there will be limited tank inspections for a certain amount of time after the suspension is lifted. Normally there is a very hefty fine that goes along with running red dyed diesel in an onroad situation. It basically boils down to federal tax evasion thus the IRS can get involved. I have had the chance to buy red dyed diesel in my company service truck (during the suspension), but have shyed away from it due the fact that should something happen a company is held more accountable than a person. Thus EXTREMELY stiff fines.

 

I agree with Powerstroke73, except that the IRS is the agency that issues the fines not that they might.
The federally issued temporary suspension on the tax penalty is for all 50 states not just 28. This suspension has been going on since early Sept. I carry a copy of the IRS memo/bulletin in my truck just in case I get inspected.
Since the truck in question in the beginning is a 6.0, the symptoms sound very similar to a bad EGR valve, and the 6.0's are known for this problem. I would have the EGR valve checked out. I really do not think it is bad fuel, especially at a truck stop in an area as well traveled as Kannapolis, NC. Also considering the red fuel has been used on road since early Sept.

 

I keep mine up by the book so I am concerned that in the F250 Powerstroke Diesel Manual (corrected reference) it states:

"Do not use home heating oil or any diesel fuel not intended for highway use. Red dye is used to identify fuels indted for agricultural and non-highway use. Damage to the fuel injection system, engine and excahsut catalyst can occur if an improper fuel is used."

On additives, it also states: "It should not be necessary to add any aftermarket additives to your fuel tank if you use a properly formulated diesel fuel that meets the ASTM D 975 industry specification. Aftermarket additives can damage the injector system or engine. Reapirs ot correct the effects of using an aftermarket product in your fuel may not be covered by your warranty."

A lot of you guys though are adding Power Service Products Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost in your fuel though with no problems?

Yesterday, I rode back up to that Pilot Truck Stop where I unknowingly purchased the red diesel. Sure enough, there was no sign on the pumps nor any sign on the store door showing they were substituting red diesel. If I had known it, I would not have purchased it. I topped the tank off the additional 50% with standard diesel at another station yesterday, but I am still have rough idle, and symptoms that seem to be injector related and a larger than normal amount of soot from the exhaust. I talked to another customer while at the store and he said he heard of another guy having a similar problem last week.

The local dealer service departments so could only talk to a sales rep yesterday. In his opinion, I should have Pilot pay for replacing my injectors, fuel filter and emission control sensors.

I'm not pleased as I only have 6000 miles on this 2005 and it goes to show what a bad tank of diesel will do to you. I've learned my lesson to NEVER purchase diesel at an unfamiliar station unless asking questions and inspecting the diesel before pumping.

 

Where in the hell did you get an F250 Cummings diesel manual? Cumming is something that happens in pornos, I'm not even going to ask about your truck. What you probably meant is a CUMMINS, which is available in a Dodge and has never, or will ever for that matter, be available in a Ford. What you have is a Powerstroke Diesel. Hate to say it, but if you go around calling it what you did you're gonna get laughed at.


Ok, that aside read my above post. There is NO DIFFERENCE between red, green, and undyed diesel. They all come from the same pump at the refinery and have dye added to them as they are pumped into the tanker. The dye is just used to signify the end use. Ford says that to help protect their ***, but if you run green diesel its the exact same as red dyed, you just pay taxes on it is all. Also Ford is somewhat correct in saying that with a properly formulated diesel addatives are not needed. You ask that since I'm running it I'm not seeing damage? Where does Ford say it will cause damage or issues? They're just saying its not required. Now even with good diesel IMO its a good idea to run a conditioner as you are assured you have enough lubricity. As for you trying to get Pilot to pay for an injector replacement, give me a break. If it had been gas instead of red diesel I could see it, but that is not the case. The extra smoke isn't necessarily an injector issue on a 6.0L. Its most likely a gummed up EGR valve causing the problems like already stated. I think the best thing to do is take your Ford manual and burn it, then spend a month reading (not posting) over on www.thedieselstop.com and www.thedieselgarage.com

 

Well, the dealer disagrees and says that red diesel is different, and hence the warnings on not to use it. In their opinion, it has different sulfur content and is of poorer quality than regular diesel. They will not even cover the EGR valve service under warranty on a 4 month old 6000 mile F250.

If I had just walked in and complained of problems, perhaps that would have worked with me and would agree to have covered some of this work.

But I was honest, and told them about the discovery of the red diesel as being the cause of my problems. Then, the dealer instantly put up a brick wall when they heard I had unknowingly been sold a tank of red diesel that was running in the engine when the problems first surfaced.

See page 29 of the Ford Engine Manual.

Not a good day....

 

The next time I trust a dealer is the first time. I don't even take it in to get a free yearly safety inspection, and I pay for my guy to do it. Thats how much faith I have in them touching a diesel truck. Red fuel is nothing different than being red to signify no road taxes. You very well just could have gotten old diesel having nothing to do with being ag diesel.

The ford manuals also say not to change to another type or size of tire than the origionals. The manuals say not to add chips or tuners. The manuals say not go to anyware else than a ford dealer. It's all about the money and how they just conviently got out of a warranty repair.

Go to any local independant diesel mechanic and he will say the same thing.

Adrianspeeder