Random, Unexplainable Dead Battery?
#1
12-13-2012, 08:38 PM
Random, Unexplainable Dead Battery?
So having a battery issue to run by you guys just for a sanity check. The battery in my car keeps dieing, and it's completely random.
First time happended several months ago. It died to the point it wouldn't crank at all. Placed it on a charger and it took a full charge and held. Drove the car completely normal for a few weeks and repeat above.
After that second (or third time) charge, it lasted several (5+) months with no symptoms or problems at all. Then suddenly two weeks ago, completely dead again. This time I checked it at 10.2 volts when it wouldn't crank or anything. Charged it. It took a normal charge and topped off at 13.6. Now have been driving for two weeks symptom and trouble free. During this past two weeks, I checked the voltage several times; 13.4v immediately after shut down, 15.3v while running, and 13.2v after sitting for 24 hours.
Then again today...bam! Dead.
I'm thinking bad cell or something in the battery cause I've never had a bad battery that was truly bad, recover like this for any period of time or at least not give certain symptoms of impending failure.
Thoughts??
First time happended several months ago. It died to the point it wouldn't crank at all. Placed it on a charger and it took a full charge and held. Drove the car completely normal for a few weeks and repeat above.
After that second (or third time) charge, it lasted several (5+) months with no symptoms or problems at all. Then suddenly two weeks ago, completely dead again. This time I checked it at 10.2 volts when it wouldn't crank or anything. Charged it. It took a normal charge and topped off at 13.6. Now have been driving for two weeks symptom and trouble free. During this past two weeks, I checked the voltage several times; 13.4v immediately after shut down, 15.3v while running, and 13.2v after sitting for 24 hours.
Then again today...bam! Dead.
I'm thinking bad cell or something in the battery cause I've never had a bad battery that was truly bad, recover like this for any period of time or at least not give certain symptoms of impending failure.
Thoughts??
#2
12-14-2012, 11:46 AM
I've had about 5 batteries that acted like this over the past few years and it's definitely the battery! One was less than 3 mo battery from the Mitsubishi dealer, several were DAP batteries. One of those was also only a couple of months old and another just under a year old. Typically, the vehicle will just die like you'd turned off the ignition switch and when you try to restart the battery would be completely dead. Sometimes they'd recover on their own without me doing anything, other times they'd recover after being charged. But those batteries would always fail again at unpredictable times. I replaced them with a battery from Costco and a couple from AutoZone and so far haven't had any problems. Knock on wood!
If you check around the net you'll find LOTS of stories of battery failures in the last couple of years. IIRC a LOT of them were batteries that were made by Johnson Controls. They've been buying up lots of formerly good battery brands and are now selling their SHIIT under a LOT of other brand names. I'm not sure if other manufacturer's batteries are having similar problems but ones being made by JC seems to be a common culprit.
If you check around the net you'll find LOTS of stories of battery failures in the last couple of years. IIRC a LOT of them were batteries that were made by Johnson Controls. They've been buying up lots of formerly good battery brands and are now selling their SHIIT under a LOT of other brand names. I'm not sure if other manufacturer's batteries are having similar problems but ones being made by JC seems to be a common culprit.
#3
12-14-2012, 12:15 PM
#7
12-21-2012, 03:43 PM
Senior Member
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#8
02-25-2013, 10:22 PM
OK, so check it out...same problem as above with the random dead, unexplained battery. After testing the battery, I concluded it was the battery since it got to a point where it wouldn't hold a charge. So back in early Jan, got a brand new battery. Slow charged it before the install and all's good to go.
Well, went to crank it up this morning and bam...dead battery!!! WTF??
I have been unable to find anything to explain this occurrence. And with the long frequency that it's happening, I'm very hesitant to take in in somewhere because what exactly are they going to troubleshoot or find?? It's something popping up on occasion, at random, that's hitting this battery hard and then going away; what else could it be? If it was some type of slow drain, the frequent driving would keep it charged enough to mask it or I would think it'd happen more often or slightly more predictable.
What's next?
Well, went to crank it up this morning and bam...dead battery!!! WTF??
I have been unable to find anything to explain this occurrence. And with the long frequency that it's happening, I'm very hesitant to take in in somewhere because what exactly are they going to troubleshoot or find?? It's something popping up on occasion, at random, that's hitting this battery hard and then going away; what else could it be? If it was some type of slow drain, the frequent driving would keep it charged enough to mask it or I would think it'd happen more often or slightly more predictable.
What's next?
#9
02-26-2013, 02:09 AM
Senior Member
My suggestion is start pulling fuses,,, all of the ones that dont have do with starting the engine. Then start putting them back in to box one at a time over a long period of time. Hopefully as you go along,,,keeping track of each one you put back youll find it. Oh no driving the car. At least until you find the devil.
Trouble shooting electric problems arent easy. Not an easy way to find it. Sure someone will come with something else. Hope the car isnt a DD,,,if it is going to be hard to do. If its not a DD then you got time. GOOD LUCK!!!!!
Trouble shooting electric problems arent easy. Not an easy way to find it. Sure someone will come with something else. Hope the car isnt a DD,,,if it is going to be hard to do. If its not a DD then you got time. GOOD LUCK!!!!!
#10
02-26-2013, 02:25 AM
Yes, it's a DD...not an option. And here's another weird part of the puzzle. Every single time the battery has died and done this, it's been at home, over night. Knock on wood, but this never happens out anywhere and the battery thing has never left us stranded anywhere but at the house. Even going to work and the car sitting in the parking log for 8 hours...works fine. It just doesn't like over night for some reason.
#11
02-26-2013, 04:17 AM
Put a constant duty solenoid in the + cable (close to the battery). That way you can disconnect the power without pulling the cables. You'll find out for sure if it is the battery or an intermittent drain. If you still have the problem You've ruled out any drain. If you have an Amp clamp, put it on the + cable before bedtime and in the morning. That kind of a drain would certainly show up unless it's watching you go to bed and then doing the wild thing! 
#12
02-26-2013, 09:32 AM
Is there any aftermarket modifications ( i.e remote start ) ?
Had one on a GM, where the clown / installer, just twisted the wires together and after using the remote start, it would sit with power being applied and removed from the remote start module.
Once I got the additional diagnostic item of they came out to the lot and saw the parking lamps on without using the remote start, I knew where to look.
Sure enough twist and tape splices that worked their way loose over time. Soldered them together, heat shrink and new battery no more problems.
The other item, have you ever gotten a voltage reading with the engine running, and had it dead the next day ?
- Hard to tell from the list up the thread.
Had one on a GM, where the clown / installer, just twisted the wires together and after using the remote start, it would sit with power being applied and removed from the remote start module.
Once I got the additional diagnostic item of they came out to the lot and saw the parking lamps on without using the remote start, I knew where to look.
Sure enough twist and tape splices that worked their way loose over time. Soldered them together, heat shrink and new battery no more problems.
The other item, have you ever gotten a voltage reading with the engine running, and had it dead the next day ?
- Hard to tell from the list up the thread.
#13
02-27-2013, 09:44 AM
No, no mods to the car at all.
Batt voltage while running is 15.3. On a normal given day, voltage checks at ~13.6 after siting all night...except for when this happens obviously.
Battery just sat on the charger all night and nothing works this morning; no lights or anything...door nail! Didn't have time to check voltages but will this afternoon.
I find it additionally strange that even if something drained the batt, that it won't even take a charge now. Aggravating.
Batt voltage while running is 15.3. On a normal given day, voltage checks at ~13.6 after siting all night...except for when this happens obviously.
Battery just sat on the charger all night and nothing works this morning; no lights or anything...door nail! Didn't have time to check voltages but will this afternoon.
I find it additionally strange that even if something drained the batt, that it won't even take a charge now. Aggravating.
#14
02-27-2013, 11:31 AM
not all vehicles have LIKE issues when it comes to battery drains...yes, some are similar but involve different things....
#15
02-27-2013, 11:51 AM
A car battery is used to store electrical power in reserve to be used when the car engine is started. Several conditions can occur that will cause a battery to lose its charge overnight. [ are several "live" electrical circuits that can draw electrical power from the battery when the key is in the off position.
As a battery ages it loses its ability to hold a charge, as a rule of
thumb a battery will last about three to four years. If the battery is fairly new you will need to start the engine by jump starting or charging the battery using a battery charger. Once the engine is running test the alternator in the charging system. If the alternator fails, replace it with a new or rebuilt unit and re-test system, if the alternator tests ok proceed to the next step.
*This first test is simple but you would be surprised at how many people simply leave their headlights on overnight. If the battery is dead check the headlight control switch. If the switch is in the on position turn the switch off and jump start or charge the battery. The battery should re-gain its state of charge after about 15 minutes of driving and your problem will solved. If headlight switch is off proceed to next step.
*Interior light mechanism fails it can leave the interior light on draining the battery. If this is the case the interior light delay sentinel or Body Control Module will need to be replaced. If all tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the car stereo tape deck or CD player, sometimes a tape or CD will get stuck in the player either loading or ejecting causing the motor inside the tape deck to stop. This small motor can draw enough electrical power to drain the battery overnight. If a tape or CD is stuck in the player try using a small flat bladed screwdriver or small tweezers to remove the culprit. If the stuck tape or CD will not come out. Remove the player and disconnect the unit. Once the unit has been removed either
replace the player or send it to a stereo repair shop and reinstall when repaired. If player tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the glove box illumination light, in most cases this light is controlled by a small pin switch. If this switch malfunctions or is misaligned it will allow the glove box light to stay on draining the battery down overnight. To check for this condition look for the light inside the glove box through the small cracks in the glove box door. If this light is illuminated when the glove box door is shut replace or readjust the switch to operate properly and recheck light operation. If it tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the trunk illumination light, in most cases this light is
controlled by a small pin or a mercury level switch. To test the trunk light operation observe the light as you close the trunk lid, the light should go off when the trunk lid is nearly shut. If the light doesn't go off replace or readjust the switch and recheck operation. If it tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the hood (covers the engine) illumination light, in most cases this light is controlled by a small pin or a mercury level switch. To test the hood light operation observe the light as you close the hood, the light should go off when the hood is nearly shut. If the light doesn't go off replace or readjust the switch and recheck operation. If it tests okproceed to next step.
*Inspect power points or cigarette lighter for debris that can cause an electrical draw like a penny or a gum wrapper Anything that can cause an electrical draw will drain the battery power. If debris is found remove it with a small pair of tweezers. (Note: sometimes when inserting tweezers or removing debris from the cigarette lighter a fuse can blow, if so replace the fuse with new after the debris has been removed) If the lighter is ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the electric seat control switch, this switch can become sticky or weak allowing the switch to stay engaged forcing the seat motor to draw power from the battery until dead. To check for this condition observe the operation of the seat control switch if it does not return the neutral position or is sticking in one position replace the switch with new
and recheck.
*If no other electrical accessory is causing the battery to drain
overnight a manual draw check of the electrical system will need to be performed. What this means is you will be checking the electrical draw the battery has on it when the car is locked up, with the key in the "off"
position". First open the hood and disable the under hood illumination light, if equipped. Next, with the key off and the doors locked wait 15 minutes, then disconnect the battery cable on the negative side. (The 15 minute wait allows the computers to go into "sleep mode" and shuts down all electrical). Attach a test light between the negative battery cable end and the negative battery terminal. The test light should illuminate dimly or not at all. If the test light is on brightly there is a strong
electrical draw in the system. To locate this electrical draw start removing fuses one at a time. When the test light goes out the circuit in question has been located. You will need a car repair manual to identify all accessories in a particular circuit, repair as needed and re-check system.
As a battery ages it loses its ability to hold a charge, as a rule of
thumb a battery will last about three to four years. If the battery is fairly new you will need to start the engine by jump starting or charging the battery using a battery charger. Once the engine is running test the alternator in the charging system. If the alternator fails, replace it with a new or rebuilt unit and re-test system, if the alternator tests ok proceed to the next step.
*This first test is simple but you would be surprised at how many people simply leave their headlights on overnight. If the battery is dead check the headlight control switch. If the switch is in the on position turn the switch off and jump start or charge the battery. The battery should re-gain its state of charge after about 15 minutes of driving and your problem will solved. If headlight switch is off proceed to next step.
*Interior light mechanism fails it can leave the interior light on draining the battery. If this is the case the interior light delay sentinel or Body Control Module will need to be replaced. If all tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the car stereo tape deck or CD player, sometimes a tape or CD will get stuck in the player either loading or ejecting causing the motor inside the tape deck to stop. This small motor can draw enough electrical power to drain the battery overnight. If a tape or CD is stuck in the player try using a small flat bladed screwdriver or small tweezers to remove the culprit. If the stuck tape or CD will not come out. Remove the player and disconnect the unit. Once the unit has been removed either
replace the player or send it to a stereo repair shop and reinstall when repaired. If player tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the glove box illumination light, in most cases this light is controlled by a small pin switch. If this switch malfunctions or is misaligned it will allow the glove box light to stay on draining the battery down overnight. To check for this condition look for the light inside the glove box through the small cracks in the glove box door. If this light is illuminated when the glove box door is shut replace or readjust the switch to operate properly and recheck light operation. If it tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the trunk illumination light, in most cases this light is
controlled by a small pin or a mercury level switch. To test the trunk light operation observe the light as you close the trunk lid, the light should go off when the trunk lid is nearly shut. If the light doesn't go off replace or readjust the switch and recheck operation. If it tests ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the hood (covers the engine) illumination light, in most cases this light is controlled by a small pin or a mercury level switch. To test the hood light operation observe the light as you close the hood, the light should go off when the hood is nearly shut. If the light doesn't go off replace or readjust the switch and recheck operation. If it tests okproceed to next step.
*Inspect power points or cigarette lighter for debris that can cause an electrical draw like a penny or a gum wrapper Anything that can cause an electrical draw will drain the battery power. If debris is found remove it with a small pair of tweezers. (Note: sometimes when inserting tweezers or removing debris from the cigarette lighter a fuse can blow, if so replace the fuse with new after the debris has been removed) If the lighter is ok proceed to next step.
*Inspect the electric seat control switch, this switch can become sticky or weak allowing the switch to stay engaged forcing the seat motor to draw power from the battery until dead. To check for this condition observe the operation of the seat control switch if it does not return the neutral position or is sticking in one position replace the switch with new
and recheck.
*If no other electrical accessory is causing the battery to drain
overnight a manual draw check of the electrical system will need to be performed. What this means is you will be checking the electrical draw the battery has on it when the car is locked up, with the key in the "off"
position". First open the hood and disable the under hood illumination light, if equipped. Next, with the key off and the doors locked wait 15 minutes, then disconnect the battery cable on the negative side. (The 15 minute wait allows the computers to go into "sleep mode" and shuts down all electrical). Attach a test light between the negative battery cable end and the negative battery terminal. The test light should illuminate dimly or not at all. If the test light is on brightly there is a strong
electrical draw in the system. To locate this electrical draw start removing fuses one at a time. When the test light goes out the circuit in question has been located. You will need a car repair manual to identify all accessories in a particular circuit, repair as needed and re-check system.