slug,

I see your point. Let all the creatons go free just incase one of them is actually inocent... Even Judge Dread made a mistake..... ;)

JMC

Creatons? ROFL!

FREE AT LAST..... FREE AT LAST... THANK GOD ALMIGHTY... WE ARE FREE AT LAST...

I'm not surprised that you're not getting the point.

So, the box only holds 15 seconds of data. That's today. Next year? 30 seconds? 5 minutes a year later? 1 hour a year after that?

You scoff at the possibility. Did you ever anticipate say 10 years ago, in your wildest dreams, that the car manufacturers would put something in your vehicles to actually monitor how you're driving without informing you of it? Did you anticipate that the data held in that box can be used against you in court?

The insurance companies won't be able to tap into the box? Are you sure of that? Do you trust your government to protect your privacy? My local water department can read my water meter just by driving by it, using a radio transmitter activating a transponder on my water meter. Who knows? This technology could be employed in our vehicles too. The justification? The government needs to know where every vehicle is and how it's being driven because of national security. Insurance companies can use that data to save good drivers money and increase the premiums of unsafe drivers. The government could use that data to confiscate vehicles that have been used to break the speed limits.

Hey, if they can put a gps in a cellphone that tells people exactly where that $100 phone is, you can bet your bottom dollar that they can put a gps in the black box too. Hell, a bunch of high end vehicles are being tracked 24 hours a day right now!

Impossible? How many of you have flown recently? 3 years ago, how many of you would have left your luggage unlocked? You'd no sooner leave your luggage unlocked than you would leave your zipper down. Today, the TSA tells you to leave your luggage unlocked. They remind you of it at the airport. Your bag falls open? Too bad. Stuff gets stolen from your bag? Too bad. It's for the good of national security so you just lost your rights as an airline passenger.

Ever seen those full body scan machines at the international terminals? You get scanned by one of those things and some stranger knows what you look like without your clothes on. Did you anticipate the use of such a machine 5 years ago?

In less than 10 years from now, you'll remember this debate when laws are passed to allow the remote reading of data from your own personal vehicles by law enforcement and insurance agencies.

Don't think it will happen? Look at how much privacy you've lost in the past 2 years because of national security.

Well, just thank the liberals for making it possible. If we actually had personal responsibility in this country maybe some of these things would not be happening... :thumbsup:

Actually, it is better to let a criminal go free if it means you prevent the incarceration or death of somebody who is innocent. Case in point. The recent raid on a home where a lady died from a heart attack. Turns out it was the wrong address. Was it worth the risk of killing an innocent person to catch a criminal? I don't think so.

Prosecutors agree that they'd rather let a criminal go free than put an innocent person in jail.

Let me put another slant on this. How would you feel if you sat on a jury that sent a person to death row only to have that person cleared of the crime after that person was put to death?

The point is, we have a greater responsibility to protect the innocent than we do to convict a criminal.

Yep, poor ol' criminal's it's not their fault anyway, someone else's fault.

As far as the elder lady that died that is truly sad, but it is something that is a part of life. Sure I would love to sit here and say it should never happen, but that is fantasy, something liberals love to grab on to in order to make some kind of argument against anyone really being safe.

Nothing in life is fair, and nothing is life is perfect. So, since it seems someone should be held accountable for an innocent elder lady dieing because of a “mistake” then let’s actually do something to make it “fair”, shall we?

Here is what I propose. They police were obviously looking for someone so when they find them, and if that person they were looking for is found guilty of the crime the police were looking for him for then that person should be charged with the elder ladies death. To me that is fair and just. Well, let me explain that one because some liberals may not actual get it.

First was it the police’s fault for the death or who they were looking for to begin with, but got the wrong information on the person’s whereabouts? Well, the logical answer, when thought out with knowledge and not “feelings” is it was the person the police were looking for, it is that person’s fault. It is so because this person, by some kind of action set in motion the circumstances for the police to have to go breaking down doors looking for them.

If this person had actually practiced “personal responsibility” the police would not have to have gone busting down a door looking for them. This would have prevented an innocent person dieing due to the mistakes made by the police that was set in motion by the person they were looking for.

Why are some people so worried about a black box in a vehicle but not worried about their phones, computers, their personal mail, trash, or anything else you can think of that data can be collected on you.

It is not a perfect world, never has been and never will be. :thumbsup:

Are we still talking about trucks?:confused: :eek: :D

Sure... :thumbsup: :devil:

I still don't like the idea of a monitor in my truck, which is capable of incriminating me. I agree with Dennis, memory is cheap. 5 seconds turns into 5 days and the phone rings and my insurance rate goes up because I did 60 in a 55 zone. No matter because 5 minutes ago the phone range and my license was suspended. Of course I didn't answer either call because I had them forwarded to my truck. After all, plenty of memory to hold all my call messages there...

Just read in the paper that the government is working on a way to track people's every movement including what they say and do.

All in the name of national security. Oh, to top it off, this information will be PUBLIC DOMAINE! You can thank Rummy and friends for this. I'm sure Ashcroft had his hand in this too.

Mark my words. This black box in our trucks is only the beginning. My one hope is that 10 years from now, you remember this debate and what I've been saying.

BTW, don't be making this a liberal vs. conservative thing. Some of you always do that and all it does is drag the whole thing into the crapper. Just stick to the issues and leave the vindictive comments out of it.

That is odd, you state “not” to make it conservative vs. whinny liberal then you state:

So all this black box and secret “evil” information gathering is Ashcroft and Rumsfields fault? They are both conservative and absolutely not whinny liberals. It seems you just made it a whinny liberal vs. stand up take responsibility conservative debate.

Actually it is the whinny ill responsible liberals in this country who would love nothing more then TOTAL control over everyone’s life. However since some of this information gathering is designed to catch “bad evil” people they, the whinny liberal crowd wants no part of that. I can understand because it is their nature, they do NOT like to see anyone held accountable for their actions, so long as they believe and stand with the rest of the whinny liberals of this country. It has always been two sided with that crowd, the liberal crowd. They want free choice as long as it is in line with what they think you should choose. They want NO ONE to be responsible for their actions, unless of course your someone like me who thinks they are a bunch of nut cases worrying about black helicopters landing at their home in the middle of the night.

Let’s also remember most liberals do NOT want anyone to actually catch any “evil” terriost before they comment another deadly act. That would screw everything up for them and all their plans. They can’t wait for another attack so they can blame it on President Bush, Rumsfield and Ashcroft.

I don’t like anyone snooping around with my personal things, be it my phone calls, my email, where I go on the web, or what the hell I may be doing in my truck. Here is the thing, if SOMEONE doesn’t try their best to prevent future acts of mischief then how are you going to STOP it?

As I said I don’t like someone snooping around my personal things, however I have nothing to worry about since I am doing nothing illegal to begin with, be it on the phone, computer or in my truck. Those that worry about it most likely are doing something they shouldn’t be doing to begin with. Either make people responsible for their actions, which liberals HATE to do, or get over it there is nothing you can do because there are more of me out here who want the government (ones we can trust like President Bush) to try their best at stopping future terriost attacks. Not like the Clinton government that only cared about a BJ while other things in the world where falling apart. Clinton had his chance, three times I believe and he was to “busy” to do anything about it.

Yes this is a conservative vs. whinny liberal debate… :thumbsup:

I remember seeing on television that the car rental companies have the capability to know if you speed with their cars and charge you an arm and a leg if you do. I do not remember how they know I believe it was with a gps unit or some kind of lojack thing. Some people are being hit with outrages monetary charges for speeding with the rental cars.

Yes, they can often tell that kind of thing by a GPS unit and some other hardware.

OK, sorry but I did not read all of this thread...just to dam long and boring.

I have never actually worked with the back boxes myself (my background is industrial failure analysis, not accident reconstruction) but several of our engineers work with them regularly (Accident reconstruction engineers). So I do have some information about the "black boxes". First of all, I don’t like the idea or presence of “black boxes” and I feel that the data in a black box is mine and is an invasion of my privacy. However, I'm wrong...

• The data is stored in nonvolatile memory and will not be lost when disconnect from the battery. (I have seen data being downloaded from a black box in the comfort of the engineers office).
• Insurance companies routinely download the information following a major accident. If you file an insurance claim you are required to allow them to do this, hidden in your insurance policy somewhere is language indicating that you will cooperate in an investigation. Also, if your car is totaled and the insurance pays you, the car (and all the data) is theirs, not yours.
• There is definite potential of abuse. OK, so who has ever driven 65 mph in a 55 mph zone? If someone slams into you (accident 100% their fault) the insurance company can refuse to pay you because the accident occurred while you were breaking the law (speeding). This is an extreme case, but it could happen (I don’t think it ever has, but it could…).
• The list of cars with black boxes is ever increasing. Just a few years ago there was only a handful, soon all new cars will have them.

As I said, I don’t like them but they’re here to stay..