Truck won't start..need help!
#31
01-17-2019, 11:16 PM
Member
PATS delete service
I know this is old, but I figured I would answer it anyway, because this information doesn't come easy to consumers.
The PATS anti-theft system typically consists of the following parts: A PATS key, a transceiver module, a PATS module, and the vehicle's PCM.
The PATS key has a little chip in it that, when awakened, sends a signal to the transceiver module.
The Transceiver module sends out a signal to the key that wake it up, and causes it to start broadcasting a signal. The Transceiver module then receives that signal from the key, and sends it to the PATS module.
The PATS module on older vehicles was a standalone module under the dash somewhere. A few years later, they quit building them as a separate module, and started building the PATS module into the Hybrid Electronic Cluster, or HEC. Also known as the instrument cluster.
The PATS module/instrument cluster compares the code the key is sending out to the code in memory, and if they are a match, the PATS module sends a signal out to the PCM, giving the PCM the green light to start the car. The PATS module communicates with the PCM via serial data, over the SCP bus, and this signal can't be faked.
The PCM is ultimately in charge of whether or not the car runs. It will let the vehicle do everything normally if the PATS system is unhappy, except fire the fuel injectors. And on some models, it will also disengage the starter.
It is the PCM that is in charge of the starter relay, and the fuel injectors. So think of the PATS module as an advisor, advising the PCM on whether or not it should let you start your truck. But ultimately, it is the PCM's decision. Of course, it will normally do what the PATS module wants it to do, and that is to not start the truck. Unless....
Unless the PCM is reprogrammed to eliminate the PATS anti-theft system entirely. Yes, this can be done. I do it daily. Using aftermarket programming software, I can turn off the master switch that tells the PCM whether or not this vehicle is equipped with the PATS anti-theft system. If the PCM is told that the truck is not equipped with PATS, then the truck won't bother asking the PATS module whether or not it should allow the truck to start. Remember, the PCM is in charge of the engine and starter, not the PATS module.
It's also worth noting that some trucks have starter interrupt when PATS is unhappy, and some only cut fuel injectors off. The fuel pump relay and the ignition system still work, it's only the fuel injectors and possibly the starter relay that will cease to function when PATS is not happy with the key code it is receiving.
When a vehicle is pretty new and expensive, deleting PATS is a bad idea. Getting the truck stolen would be a disaster. But as these vehicles get older, the PATS system components can begin to fail, and some of them (like the instrument cluster/HEC) are really expensive. And they have to be programmed to match the PCM and keys when you replace them. By the time you tow the truck to Ford, buy new keys, fix whatever part is broken in the system, and program the truck, the repairs start at a couple hundred and go up from there! Even just a bad key could cause a tow to Ford, a diagnostic and programming fee, and the cost of a key.
When the vehicle gets old and high mileage, it might not be worth all that. It might be time to just delete PATS and start using $2 keys from the hardware store. The vehicle just might not justify the repair cost. When you've hit that point where you want PATS to just go away, get in touch with me. Deleting PATS on EEC-V vehicles (most 96-04 Fords) is pretty cheap, starting at $79.95 plus shipping currently. Computers newer than EEC-V, that price begins to go up.
I hope this helps some of you have a basic understanding of how PATS works, and what to do about it when you don't want to pay up to fix it.
Regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
The PATS anti-theft system typically consists of the following parts: A PATS key, a transceiver module, a PATS module, and the vehicle's PCM.
The PATS key has a little chip in it that, when awakened, sends a signal to the transceiver module.
The Transceiver module sends out a signal to the key that wake it up, and causes it to start broadcasting a signal. The Transceiver module then receives that signal from the key, and sends it to the PATS module.
The PATS module on older vehicles was a standalone module under the dash somewhere. A few years later, they quit building them as a separate module, and started building the PATS module into the Hybrid Electronic Cluster, or HEC. Also known as the instrument cluster.
The PATS module/instrument cluster compares the code the key is sending out to the code in memory, and if they are a match, the PATS module sends a signal out to the PCM, giving the PCM the green light to start the car. The PATS module communicates with the PCM via serial data, over the SCP bus, and this signal can't be faked.
The PCM is ultimately in charge of whether or not the car runs. It will let the vehicle do everything normally if the PATS system is unhappy, except fire the fuel injectors. And on some models, it will also disengage the starter.
It is the PCM that is in charge of the starter relay, and the fuel injectors. So think of the PATS module as an advisor, advising the PCM on whether or not it should let you start your truck. But ultimately, it is the PCM's decision. Of course, it will normally do what the PATS module wants it to do, and that is to not start the truck. Unless....
Unless the PCM is reprogrammed to eliminate the PATS anti-theft system entirely. Yes, this can be done. I do it daily. Using aftermarket programming software, I can turn off the master switch that tells the PCM whether or not this vehicle is equipped with the PATS anti-theft system. If the PCM is told that the truck is not equipped with PATS, then the truck won't bother asking the PATS module whether or not it should allow the truck to start. Remember, the PCM is in charge of the engine and starter, not the PATS module.
It's also worth noting that some trucks have starter interrupt when PATS is unhappy, and some only cut fuel injectors off. The fuel pump relay and the ignition system still work, it's only the fuel injectors and possibly the starter relay that will cease to function when PATS is not happy with the key code it is receiving.
When a vehicle is pretty new and expensive, deleting PATS is a bad idea. Getting the truck stolen would be a disaster. But as these vehicles get older, the PATS system components can begin to fail, and some of them (like the instrument cluster/HEC) are really expensive. And they have to be programmed to match the PCM and keys when you replace them. By the time you tow the truck to Ford, buy new keys, fix whatever part is broken in the system, and program the truck, the repairs start at a couple hundred and go up from there! Even just a bad key could cause a tow to Ford, a diagnostic and programming fee, and the cost of a key.
When the vehicle gets old and high mileage, it might not be worth all that. It might be time to just delete PATS and start using $2 keys from the hardware store. The vehicle just might not justify the repair cost. When you've hit that point where you want PATS to just go away, get in touch with me. Deleting PATS on EEC-V vehicles (most 96-04 Fords) is pretty cheap, starting at $79.95 plus shipping currently. Computers newer than EEC-V, that price begins to go up.
I hope this helps some of you have a basic understanding of how PATS works, and what to do about it when you don't want to pay up to fix it.
Regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
The following 2 users liked this post by pontisteve:
#32
01-17-2019, 11:53 PM
Member
I almost forgot about the VID block.
The PCM holds a long file in it called the Binary file. This file contains all the information on how the computer is supposed to run the truck. A small portion of this binary file is called the Vehicle ID Block, or VID block. The VID block is a special area of the computer that is accessible to be reprogrammed, without special reflashing software. This area of the calibration can be accessed by most technicians with a fairly high end scantool, like a Snap-on, Autel, Ford IDS, and other somewhat expensive scan tools. With a few exceptions, inexpensive scan tools cannot access the VID block.
Inside the VID block is stored programmable parameters, such as the Rear Axle Gear Ratio, the tire revolutions per mile (tire size), PATS information (on some years), and sometimes other data like what certain options this vehicle is equipped with. A technician can use his high end scan tool to reprogram these things. For example, if you put 2" taller tires on the truck, the tech can enter the tire revs/mile information off the new tires into the PCM, and that will fix the vehicle speed error, which affects not only the speedometer, but also the odometer, transmission up and down shift points, torque converter lockup points, speed limiter, and sometimes other things as well inside the calibration. Because this information needs to be easily updated, scan tools get access to the VID block, without having access to the entire tune.
When Ford uses their IDS tool (a laptop version of a scantool and a PCM reprogramming tool all in one), they can check your truck for PCM updates. If an update is available to the calibration, Ford IDS will download the newest calibration and load that file into the PCM. Also, the Ford IDS tool can write the calibration from scratch.
When a PCM is reprogrammed, the original program is completely erased, and the new program is written. But Ford is not going to want to write over these programmable parameters, because they are vehicle specific, and not necessarily the same as they were when the truck was born. So what the Ford tool does is it inhales the old data before reprogramming. Even if you replace the PCM, the Ford tool wants to try to talk to the original PCM first, read this data, save it on the IDS laptop, then write the new calibration, and THEN write back the VID block data.
If the old PCM is damaged beyond use, the Ford tool can write the PCM from scratch. But it will have to have the catch code (4 digit code on PCM sticker), and the technician will have to answer a bunch of questions. Like what axle is in the truck, what's the gear ratio, what's the tire revs/mile. Is it equipped with this, or that. Have certain TSB's been previously performed. It's much easier if the original PCM is available, to suck this information out of first.
Slightly off topic, let's talk about the tire size. Ford tools used to be able to punch in any tire revs/mile number you wanted, between 500 and 1000. But they changed that at some point, and now only allow their technicians access to program tire revs that fall between the Certified sizes. So let's say when the truck is new, Ford had two tire sizes available, and they equated to 672 revs/mile and 720 revs/mile. The Ford IDS tool will now only let the technician adjust the tire revs/mile between these two numbers, because these are the only tires that Ford certified the gas mileage on. Taller tires would not get the same mileage as shorter ones, and Ford did not test those 38" super swampers, or certify to the EPA that the truck got x amount of gas mileage with those tires. They only tested a couple tires.
The same thing goes for gear ratios. The limits to which the tires and gears can be programmed are boundaries in the calibration that limit the VID block. The VID block tells the scantool what those limits are! And the scantool only allows adjustment between these limits. For example, I've seen a truck calibration that only has 3.55 gears available as a programmable option. Apparently, that truck never had any other gear offered. So the only gear choice that shows up in IDS is 3.55. But when I look at the tune using aftermarket software, I can see that the VID block limits for certified gear ratios is 3.54 to 3.56. Clearly, only 3.55 will fit within these limits.
If you put tall tires on your truck that exceed the programmable limits of the VID block, the dealership and your mechanic will tell you that you've exceeded the allowable limit for tire size, and they can only adjust it on their end to match the tallest tire available from the factory. This does little to help the guys with 36" super swampers. He's nowhere near the stock size.
Now for the good news. I can adjust these limits with aftermarket tuning software. I can do one of two things: Either adjust the certified borders, so your mechanic's scantool is allowed to go bigger/smaller than before, or I can just turn off the VID block and tell the PCM this is the tire size and gear ratio. FYI, we can turn off traction control permanently as well, in the same area. So rejoice, oh ye of country persuasion. Your 38" super swampers and 5.13 gears can be properly programmed!
This isn't exactly new. Fancy aftermarket programmers have long allowed gear ratio and tire size adjustments. Well, the good ones anyway. What is new is that I can bench flash your PCM for a lot less money than what a programmer costs, making this change cost effective. Since I own the Ford IDS software as well, I can also check for and apply factory PCM calibration updates while I'm at it, before we write a custom tune to the vehicle.
The PCM holds a long file in it called the Binary file. This file contains all the information on how the computer is supposed to run the truck. A small portion of this binary file is called the Vehicle ID Block, or VID block. The VID block is a special area of the computer that is accessible to be reprogrammed, without special reflashing software. This area of the calibration can be accessed by most technicians with a fairly high end scantool, like a Snap-on, Autel, Ford IDS, and other somewhat expensive scan tools. With a few exceptions, inexpensive scan tools cannot access the VID block.
Inside the VID block is stored programmable parameters, such as the Rear Axle Gear Ratio, the tire revolutions per mile (tire size), PATS information (on some years), and sometimes other data like what certain options this vehicle is equipped with. A technician can use his high end scan tool to reprogram these things. For example, if you put 2" taller tires on the truck, the tech can enter the tire revs/mile information off the new tires into the PCM, and that will fix the vehicle speed error, which affects not only the speedometer, but also the odometer, transmission up and down shift points, torque converter lockup points, speed limiter, and sometimes other things as well inside the calibration. Because this information needs to be easily updated, scan tools get access to the VID block, without having access to the entire tune.
When Ford uses their IDS tool (a laptop version of a scantool and a PCM reprogramming tool all in one), they can check your truck for PCM updates. If an update is available to the calibration, Ford IDS will download the newest calibration and load that file into the PCM. Also, the Ford IDS tool can write the calibration from scratch.
When a PCM is reprogrammed, the original program is completely erased, and the new program is written. But Ford is not going to want to write over these programmable parameters, because they are vehicle specific, and not necessarily the same as they were when the truck was born. So what the Ford tool does is it inhales the old data before reprogramming. Even if you replace the PCM, the Ford tool wants to try to talk to the original PCM first, read this data, save it on the IDS laptop, then write the new calibration, and THEN write back the VID block data.
If the old PCM is damaged beyond use, the Ford tool can write the PCM from scratch. But it will have to have the catch code (4 digit code on PCM sticker), and the technician will have to answer a bunch of questions. Like what axle is in the truck, what's the gear ratio, what's the tire revs/mile. Is it equipped with this, or that. Have certain TSB's been previously performed. It's much easier if the original PCM is available, to suck this information out of first.
Slightly off topic, let's talk about the tire size. Ford tools used to be able to punch in any tire revs/mile number you wanted, between 500 and 1000. But they changed that at some point, and now only allow their technicians access to program tire revs that fall between the Certified sizes. So let's say when the truck is new, Ford had two tire sizes available, and they equated to 672 revs/mile and 720 revs/mile. The Ford IDS tool will now only let the technician adjust the tire revs/mile between these two numbers, because these are the only tires that Ford certified the gas mileage on. Taller tires would not get the same mileage as shorter ones, and Ford did not test those 38" super swampers, or certify to the EPA that the truck got x amount of gas mileage with those tires. They only tested a couple tires.
The same thing goes for gear ratios. The limits to which the tires and gears can be programmed are boundaries in the calibration that limit the VID block. The VID block tells the scantool what those limits are! And the scantool only allows adjustment between these limits. For example, I've seen a truck calibration that only has 3.55 gears available as a programmable option. Apparently, that truck never had any other gear offered. So the only gear choice that shows up in IDS is 3.55. But when I look at the tune using aftermarket software, I can see that the VID block limits for certified gear ratios is 3.54 to 3.56. Clearly, only 3.55 will fit within these limits.
If you put tall tires on your truck that exceed the programmable limits of the VID block, the dealership and your mechanic will tell you that you've exceeded the allowable limit for tire size, and they can only adjust it on their end to match the tallest tire available from the factory. This does little to help the guys with 36" super swampers. He's nowhere near the stock size.
Now for the good news. I can adjust these limits with aftermarket tuning software. I can do one of two things: Either adjust the certified borders, so your mechanic's scantool is allowed to go bigger/smaller than before, or I can just turn off the VID block and tell the PCM this is the tire size and gear ratio. FYI, we can turn off traction control permanently as well, in the same area. So rejoice, oh ye of country persuasion. Your 38" super swampers and 5.13 gears can be properly programmed!
This isn't exactly new. Fancy aftermarket programmers have long allowed gear ratio and tire size adjustments. Well, the good ones anyway. What is new is that I can bench flash your PCM for a lot less money than what a programmer costs, making this change cost effective. Since I own the Ford IDS software as well, I can also check for and apply factory PCM calibration updates while I'm at it, before we write a custom tune to the vehicle.
#33
01-18-2019, 03:35 PM
#34
01-21-2019, 03:43 PM
Member
The PATS system didn't require any participation by the owner, other than having the right keys in the first place. And anything over 2 keys could be added by the owner without any special equipment. The OK signal was sent over the SCP or CAN bus, and would be nearly impossible to fake unless you were basically a network engineer.
#35
06-21-2022, 10:54 PM
Need PATS delete help
I know this is old, but I figured I would answer it anyway, because this information doesn't come easy to consumers.
The PATS anti-theft system typically consists of the following parts: A PATS key, a transceiver module, a PATS module, and the vehicle's PCM.
The PATS key has a little chip in it that, when awakened, sends a signal to the transceiver module.
The Transceiver module sends out a signal to the key that wake it up, and causes it to start broadcasting a signal. The Transceiver module then receives that signal from the key, and sends it to the PATS module.
The PATS module on older vehicles was a standalone module under the dash somewhere. A few years later, they quit building them as a separate module, and started building the PATS module into the Hybrid Electronic Cluster, or HEC. Also known as the instrument cluster.
The PATS module/instrument cluster compares the code the key is sending out to the code in memory, and if they are a match, the PATS module sends a signal out to the PCM, giving the PCM the green light to start the car. The PATS module communicates with the PCM via serial data, over the SCP bus, and this signal can't be faked.
The PCM is ultimately in charge of whether or not the car runs. It will let the vehicle do everything normally if the PATS system is unhappy, except fire the fuel injectors. And on some models, it will also disengage the starter.
It is the PCM that is in charge of the starter relay, and the fuel injectors. So think of the PATS module as an advisor, advising the PCM on whether or not it should let you start your truck. But ultimately, it is the PCM's decision. Of course, it will normally do what the PATS module wants it to do, and that is to not start the truck. Unless....
Unless the PCM is reprogrammed to eliminate the PATS anti-theft system entirely. Yes, this can be done. I do it daily. Using aftermarket programming software, I can turn off the master switch that tells the PCM whether or not this vehicle is equipped with the PATS anti-theft system. If the PCM is told that the truck is not equipped with PATS, then the truck won't bother asking the PATS module whether or not it should allow the truck to start. Remember, the PCM is in charge of the engine and starter, not the PATS module.
It's also worth noting that some trucks have starter interrupt when PATS is unhappy, and some only cut fuel injectors off. The fuel pump relay and the ignition system still work, it's only the fuel injectors and possibly the starter relay that will cease to function when PATS is not happy with the key code it is receiving.
When a vehicle is pretty new and expensive, deleting PATS is a bad idea. Getting the truck stolen would be a disaster. But as these vehicles get older, the PATS system components can begin to fail, and some of them (like the instrument cluster/HEC) are really expensive. And they have to be programmed to match the PCM and keys when you replace them. By the time you tow the truck to Ford, buy new keys, fix whatever part is broken in the system, and program the truck, the repairs start at a couple hundred and go up from there! Even just a bad key could cause a tow to Ford, a diagnostic and programming fee, and the cost of a key.
When the vehicle gets old and high mileage, it might not be worth all that. It might be time to just delete PATS and start using $2 keys from the hardware store. The vehicle just might not justify the repair cost. When you've hit that point where you want PATS to just go away, get in touch with me. Deleting PATS on EEC-V vehicles (most 96-04 Fords) is pretty cheap, starting at $79.95 plus shipping currently. Computers newer than EEC-V, that price begins to go up.
I hope this helps some of you have a basic understanding of how PATS works, and what to do about it when you don't want to pay up to fix it.
Regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
The PATS anti-theft system typically consists of the following parts: A PATS key, a transceiver module, a PATS module, and the vehicle's PCM.
The PATS key has a little chip in it that, when awakened, sends a signal to the transceiver module.
The Transceiver module sends out a signal to the key that wake it up, and causes it to start broadcasting a signal. The Transceiver module then receives that signal from the key, and sends it to the PATS module.
The PATS module on older vehicles was a standalone module under the dash somewhere. A few years later, they quit building them as a separate module, and started building the PATS module into the Hybrid Electronic Cluster, or HEC. Also known as the instrument cluster.
The PATS module/instrument cluster compares the code the key is sending out to the code in memory, and if they are a match, the PATS module sends a signal out to the PCM, giving the PCM the green light to start the car. The PATS module communicates with the PCM via serial data, over the SCP bus, and this signal can't be faked.
The PCM is ultimately in charge of whether or not the car runs. It will let the vehicle do everything normally if the PATS system is unhappy, except fire the fuel injectors. And on some models, it will also disengage the starter.
It is the PCM that is in charge of the starter relay, and the fuel injectors. So think of the PATS module as an advisor, advising the PCM on whether or not it should let you start your truck. But ultimately, it is the PCM's decision. Of course, it will normally do what the PATS module wants it to do, and that is to not start the truck. Unless....
Unless the PCM is reprogrammed to eliminate the PATS anti-theft system entirely. Yes, this can be done. I do it daily. Using aftermarket programming software, I can turn off the master switch that tells the PCM whether or not this vehicle is equipped with the PATS anti-theft system. If the PCM is told that the truck is not equipped with PATS, then the truck won't bother asking the PATS module whether or not it should allow the truck to start. Remember, the PCM is in charge of the engine and starter, not the PATS module.
It's also worth noting that some trucks have starter interrupt when PATS is unhappy, and some only cut fuel injectors off. The fuel pump relay and the ignition system still work, it's only the fuel injectors and possibly the starter relay that will cease to function when PATS is not happy with the key code it is receiving.
When a vehicle is pretty new and expensive, deleting PATS is a bad idea. Getting the truck stolen would be a disaster. But as these vehicles get older, the PATS system components can begin to fail, and some of them (like the instrument cluster/HEC) are really expensive. And they have to be programmed to match the PCM and keys when you replace them. By the time you tow the truck to Ford, buy new keys, fix whatever part is broken in the system, and program the truck, the repairs start at a couple hundred and go up from there! Even just a bad key could cause a tow to Ford, a diagnostic and programming fee, and the cost of a key.
When the vehicle gets old and high mileage, it might not be worth all that. It might be time to just delete PATS and start using $2 keys from the hardware store. The vehicle just might not justify the repair cost. When you've hit that point where you want PATS to just go away, get in touch with me. Deleting PATS on EEC-V vehicles (most 96-04 Fords) is pretty cheap, starting at $79.95 plus shipping currently. Computers newer than EEC-V, that price begins to go up.
I hope this helps some of you have a basic understanding of how PATS works, and what to do about it when you don't want to pay up to fix it.
Regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
#36
06-28-2022, 03:16 AM
Member
Steve, I need your help. I've got a 01 with 5.4 and the same issue as many here. Key will crank motor, just wont start. After scrolling through many posts, your explanation (delete option) seems like the best course of action for me. Hook me up with more in depth means of assistance.