I recently bought the evolution programmer for my 07. I have crossover 2 1/2 duals from the cats back with no mufflers. I have read about the lean condition with canned tunes and CAI's. Will adding the S&B cause this lean condition on the 07's? I really don't want the hassle of custom tunes as I prefer to tune it and forget it.

 

Not sure you understand what a custom tune really is. You tell the guy writing the tune all the info on your truck and what you want it to do, and he writes a tune to accomplish that. You don't change it after you download it, there is no need to unless you change tire size. Also, the custom tune is a little more power and much better shifting/downshifting. I used the canned tunes for 31,000 miles and have used a custom tune for 34,000 and there is a very nice difference.

Your canned tune is written for a stock intake, so unless you get a custom tune, it is not going to help you all that much. It needs a different air/fuel table.

Now, to answer your question, with the 2007, it is unlikely that you will run lean with the CAI, though there is a slim possibility. If I were not going to get a custom tune to take full take advantage of the CAI, I would do the self mod described in the How To section, since it will give you almost as much benefit and save a lot of money.

 

I ran the edge and S&B combo since the S&B intake came out, you will not run lean. I never had any issues from this setup what so ever; in fact S&B markets the intake as the intake that needs no tune! Just take the negative cable on the battery loose while your installing the intake so it can relearn.

I will second what Bluejay says, after going to custom tunes there is no comparison. You get the advantage of actually getting all you can from your intake/exhaust setup, added power, better driveability, etc, etc... The list is a long one, but in short they are well worth the $$$! With custom tunes you will be able tune it, but forget it you wont because its so much more fun to drive

 

Thanks

 

This is simply not true. The S&B cai increases the MAF tube size. Any time you increase the MAF tube size you will run leaner and need to get a custom tune to correct this issue. Maybe it's not enough to throw a CEL but do you really want to be taking a gamble between $400 and a $30,000 truck? I'm running the S&B and would highly recommend getting a custom tuned Xcal3. I chose VMP Tuning and am very happy!

 

I was one of the first 5 to receive the S&B for testing/marketing and ran it for almost a year with no tune. It never ran lean, never made the truck run like crap, never threw a CEL. I think running around for a year would have shown a lean condition, and none of the other 4 product reviewers showed any issues. I realize everyone will argue this point that you have to have a tune, but S&B says you don't and the product testing says you don't. AND I have yet to hear of anyone ruining a truck because of a lean condition with the S&B.

Even running it with the edge is like running it with no tune because the edge is setup to go onto a stock vehicle, it takes no account for an exhaust, intake, etc..

NOW if you want to take full advantage of your modifications, in this case an intake, yes I would get custom tunes.

The product testing just does not lie, and I doubt S&B would sell it as the intake that needs no tune if it did cause a lean condition.

 

Absolutely correct. Any time you change the air flow pattern of the maf, the a/f's need to be adjusted in the maf transfer function. A very slight change of a few degrees in the maf orientation (clocking) can make a difference and a larger tube would require a fair amount of adjusting.
I have run my truck so lean during tuning that I am surprised it is in one piece yet, but never a cel...........

 

just because you didnt have a cel,doesn'tmean it didn'ty lean out- what numbers were you seeing on you wide band afr gauge?

 

Just like everyone else said as well as myself before that just because you don't have a CEL, it doesn't drive any different, etc doesn't mean it's not leaner.

It's going to be leaner. That's how the programming works. The MAF sensor is tuned for a certain diameter MAF tube and you change this without making the needed changes than it's going to throw off the values in the tuning. If you go smaller than you will go leaner. If you go larger like nearly every aftermarket cold air intake than you're going to go leaner. There's no avoiding this!

Do you have any dyno graphs from before and after the S&B with the stock tune? Any wideband readings? Datalogs? etc Just saying that because S&B says it'll be fine means it's fine is ridiculous. Don't rely on someone who is selling a product to give you that kind of info. People are deterred knowing that they have to spend another $400 on a tuner to make their intake work! Manufactures do this on a regular basis. It's all about making money.

 

 

well no one sold me anything, second I asked all these questions when I was approached about it.

That said, if most aftermarket intakes are 3" and the OE intake is also 3" what is changing that you must get it tuned? In the majority of dyno graphs I have seen for nearly every aftermarket intake air flow only increased by about +/-10% over stock, and resistance to air flow was reduced by around 30% over stock in most cases. If it is only increasing around 10% the truck should be able to account for the majority of that increase. I have been researching this pretty heavily over the holiday and still just don't see the urgency.
All an aftermarket intake is doing is removing all the filters (helm holmz) and giving it a constant dia. intake tube as well as a larger filter. We all know the 3.5" AF1 runs way lean, and in some cases so does the 3.25".

I'm not arguing against you guys, but I just don't think its a must or that it makes the truck run so lean that its an issue. I do love my custom tunes, but for 3 years the S&B ran fine stock and with the edge (basically stock). I would think in 3 years of "running lean" as you guys put it something would have given out. I'm no performance expert and this is purely my personal take on it all, I have done enough research on the modifications I have done to know a bit about them and how they compare.

I would bet 90% of people with an intake have no custom tune, and run them for years with no issues and never notice any performance degradation; thus I just don't see the need that you MUST get a tune. Do I recommend a custom tune for performance, heck yea! do I think its a must for an intake, no.

Sorry guys I agree, but also disagree.

 

Well first off the MAF TUBES are different sizes than OEM and aftermarket most of the time. Very few intakes use the same MAF size as stock and if so they are truly no tune intakes. There is just nothing else to it. Also, what dyno sheets have you seen that have shown "air flow"? Irregardless you've already made your claims and made it very clear that you're not going to be able to be told any different so I'll stop now.

 

Well I'm open to being proven wrong, but this is my opinion/take on the subject so changing my mind really wouldn't happen. BUT if I am wrong please set me right on my facts; I'm in no way trying to **** anyone off. I just literally don't see that tuning for an intake is a must. As bluejay said, I'm sure it depends on everyone individual case. You can take a look at S&B site for the F150 performance intake since that is the intake we are talking about. They provide every ounce of R&D they have on it...

ISO tests

 

I'm sure that 99% of the CAI's which have been installed in vehicles have been used as a stand alone mod, with no tuning to support the mod. We rarely hear about anyone having problems with that approach, other than a very few select examples. Naturally aspirated, it would seem that the pcm will pick up the slack from more air flow and adjust fuel as needed. In a forced induction app, 35% less restriction would be a very big deal without corrected tuning.

The S&B flow test looks fair. I would think that putting two of their foam filters up against one stock paper filter doesn't seem right, but the results work for them. Why not go up against some of the other large manufacturers like K&N, AEM, etc?

 

I'm certain that someone has done this already as this is where I found some of my info when I was researching before the S&B; I Just need to find it. My computer with all my bookmarks/links had a hard drive crash several weeks ago and I lost everything otherwise I would offer up every bit of info I had. I'm looking for it and everything else I had bookmarked every time I'm on the computer trust me..

I know, I know "what a timely event" Sorry but that is what really happened at the worst time..

Really guys I'm not trying to argue with anyone, this is really just my honest point of view.