Questions on datalogging
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Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 244
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From: Montana
Questions on datalogging
My 9100 should be here today (Thanks Mike!!), and I have a few questions. Datalogging on laptop with Ease Proffesional.
LOAD... Calculated Load, or Calculated Engine Load? And yes they are different, at 2300rpm WOT Calculated load is at 91.4% and Calculated engine load is at 40.1%.
SPARK... Spark advance or Spark advance for Cyl 1? Im assuming spark advance... but?? And they show different also.
Throttle %.... The only paramter in Ease is Absolute Throttle postion. Only problem is that it shows 20 some odd % at idle.
Once the 36# injectors, Lightning Maf, and tune are installed, should I drive like normal, or take it easy for awhile?
Thanks
LOAD... Calculated Load, or Calculated Engine Load? And yes they are different, at 2300rpm WOT Calculated load is at 91.4% and Calculated engine load is at 40.1%.
SPARK... Spark advance or Spark advance for Cyl 1? Im assuming spark advance... but?? And they show different also.
Throttle %.... The only paramter in Ease is Absolute Throttle postion. Only problem is that it shows 20 some odd % at idle.
Once the 36# injectors, Lightning Maf, and tune are installed, should I drive like normal, or take it easy for awhile?
Thanks
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Haku,
(You're very welcome, of course!
)
Briefly.............
We don't use Ease, as I prefer other packages - but engine load is *not* going to be only 40% at *any* rpm @ WOT. Typical calculated engine load (which in Fords is a ve calculation - volumetric efficiency) at *idle* is around 25% in these trucks for example. At full-throttle, it's going to quickly hit 60%, 70%, 80%, etc., in a normally aspirated engine (non-supercharged), and then how close you get to 100% ve depends on just how much power the motor makes (and to a lesser extent, the MAF & its transfer function). In a forced induction motor (supercharged, turbocharged), load will go way over 100 @ WOT virtually immediately.
Some software packages show "load" as amount of throttle opening, though most do it correctly - but most are limited to only 100% load. That's fine for normally aspirated motors, but the load will be much higher @ WOT in a forced induction motor. Any forced induction engine is going to go *way* over 100% ve (load) - more like 130%-140% or so. A 2003 Cobra with a KB blower cranked up can see 170%+ ve (load)!
That's OK if you can't measure load above 100%, so don't worry if your Ease only shows 100% load max on a supercharged engine, many packages have that same limitation on load - no big deal.
Timing is timing for the entire motor, not just 1 cylinder.
Throttle position is going to be about 20% at idle - not zero as some might assume. Nor will it necessarily be 100% @ WOT, BTW - many times it'll show like 91.9%, for example. However, you do need to make sure your TPS is calibrated to 0.98-0.99 volts KOEO (key on, engine off).
The first cold start on a vehicle with bigger injectors installed, you may very well get a big puff of black smoke & have it running too rich until it warms up enough to go closed loop - then the PCM starts getting a signal from the O2 sensors and can pull the extra fuel - perfectly normal. Once it goes closed loop, the PCM will start pulling out all the extra fuel - even though the cranking pulsewidth & slopes, breakpoints, etc. are all properly set up, it's normal to get a puff of smoke & be too rich until it has been running for 5-10 minutes after that first cold start.
Just let it warm up fully before driving it the first time you fire it up with all the new hardware & tuning - drive it normally at first, gradually working up to heavy throttle use.
You don't have to drive it "gently" for a number of days - just use normal caution at first with a new tuning/hardware configuration, and gradually work up to heavy throttle use. Basically, you just want to make sure to listen for any detonation - and as long as there isn't any, you can start to use heavy throttle, but I advise doing so in short bursts at first, gradually working up to longer full-throttle bursts - I just wouldn't dive into full-throttle right away, that's all. - just work up to it as you start to put some miles on the vehicle, that's all. Once there is no detonation heard in any mode of operation, you can drive it however you want.
Last - remember, when datalogging, you need to eliminate all "extra" or unnecessary parameters, to speed up the datalogging, so you get the highest number of samples per second. Many packages advertise 40 samples per second, but that is only under *ideal* conditions, and only sampling ONE parameter. You have to device the # of samples per second by the number of parameters being logged - typically, with low-end packages at full-throttle in 1st gear, you only get 3-4 "slices," or samples. In second gear @ WOT you get more, and then in 3rd gear (1:1 in the automatics) even more samples - as the engine is not gaining rpms as quickly in the higher gears, of course.
Have fun & good luck!
(You're very welcome, of course!
)Briefly.............
We don't use Ease, as I prefer other packages - but engine load is *not* going to be only 40% at *any* rpm @ WOT. Typical calculated engine load (which in Fords is a ve calculation - volumetric efficiency) at *idle* is around 25% in these trucks for example. At full-throttle, it's going to quickly hit 60%, 70%, 80%, etc., in a normally aspirated engine (non-supercharged), and then how close you get to 100% ve depends on just how much power the motor makes (and to a lesser extent, the MAF & its transfer function). In a forced induction motor (supercharged, turbocharged), load will go way over 100 @ WOT virtually immediately.
Some software packages show "load" as amount of throttle opening, though most do it correctly - but most are limited to only 100% load. That's fine for normally aspirated motors, but the load will be much higher @ WOT in a forced induction motor. Any forced induction engine is going to go *way* over 100% ve (load) - more like 130%-140% or so. A 2003 Cobra with a KB blower cranked up can see 170%+ ve (load)!
That's OK if you can't measure load above 100%, so don't worry if your Ease only shows 100% load max on a supercharged engine, many packages have that same limitation on load - no big deal.
Timing is timing for the entire motor, not just 1 cylinder.
Throttle position is going to be about 20% at idle - not zero as some might assume. Nor will it necessarily be 100% @ WOT, BTW - many times it'll show like 91.9%, for example. However, you do need to make sure your TPS is calibrated to 0.98-0.99 volts KOEO (key on, engine off).
The first cold start on a vehicle with bigger injectors installed, you may very well get a big puff of black smoke & have it running too rich until it warms up enough to go closed loop - then the PCM starts getting a signal from the O2 sensors and can pull the extra fuel - perfectly normal. Once it goes closed loop, the PCM will start pulling out all the extra fuel - even though the cranking pulsewidth & slopes, breakpoints, etc. are all properly set up, it's normal to get a puff of smoke & be too rich until it has been running for 5-10 minutes after that first cold start.
Just let it warm up fully before driving it the first time you fire it up with all the new hardware & tuning - drive it normally at first, gradually working up to heavy throttle use.
You don't have to drive it "gently" for a number of days - just use normal caution at first with a new tuning/hardware configuration, and gradually work up to heavy throttle use. Basically, you just want to make sure to listen for any detonation - and as long as there isn't any, you can start to use heavy throttle, but I advise doing so in short bursts at first, gradually working up to longer full-throttle bursts - I just wouldn't dive into full-throttle right away, that's all. - just work up to it as you start to put some miles on the vehicle, that's all. Once there is no detonation heard in any mode of operation, you can drive it however you want.
Last - remember, when datalogging, you need to eliminate all "extra" or unnecessary parameters, to speed up the datalogging, so you get the highest number of samples per second. Many packages advertise 40 samples per second, but that is only under *ideal* conditions, and only sampling ONE parameter. You have to device the # of samples per second by the number of parameters being logged - typically, with low-end packages at full-throttle in 1st gear, you only get 3-4 "slices," or samples. In second gear @ WOT you get more, and then in 3rd gear (1:1 in the automatics) even more samples - as the engine is not gaining rpms as quickly in the higher gears, of course.
Have fun & good luck!
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; May 21, 2004 at 05:31 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,492
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From: Grand Rapids, MI USA
You're in Kalispell Haku? I have family there. I also am getting a 9100 very soon, thanks to Mike.
What software package do you suggest, Mike? I may end up going this route instead of doing dyno time, just because I am a very DIY type person, and I don't like other people messing with my truck, and I have heard bad things about many of the dyno operators around. However, if you know of any reputable dynos in the Orlando area a recommendation would be great. Otherwise some opinions on datalogging packages would be great.
What software package do you suggest, Mike? I may end up going this route instead of doing dyno time, just because I am a very DIY type person, and I don't like other people messing with my truck, and I have heard bad things about many of the dyno operators around. However, if you know of any reputable dynos in the Orlando area a recommendation would be great. Otherwise some opinions on datalogging packages would be great.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Montana
Yep, Kalispell is a beautifull place to live. Althou its been raining like crazy latley, hindering my datalogging!!!! I do like the Ease, it has some really great options. Such as picking and choosing which parameters you wish to see, so I picked the ones that you need to see, which of course makes it faster. Now I dont know which version you have used, but the professional one has the option of choosing sampling time (100ms 50ms 25ms) . Then hit record and do my run. After the run, I can playback the run, looking at Min/Max/Average, Graph ect... So I can go to the graph screen, put up the parameters, and scroll the time index, stop it anywhere to see the data at that specific time, rpm ect. So I can stop it at for example 3500rpm, then see what all the other parameters are at that time as well, log them then go to 4000rpm ect. Anyway, install went good. Ran into a snag reading the directions on the IAT. My instructions from Allen do not say anywhere to move the IAT. So I tore into it, and found a pipe plug in the intake (Left side, right by the power steering res), so I called Scott at Allen, and he told me to use a air charge temp sender from a 95 Ford Thunderbird super coupe (3.8SC), so I ordered the sensor and harness from Napa, finished installing the 36# injectors and the 90MM Lightning maf, installed the custom tune, removed the FMU and fired it up. It started right up, no black smoke no idle problem, nothing!! It acted the same as before... Perfect!! I put on the "Street tune", so far so good. I only have about 60 miles on it so far, its been super wet here so of course 1/2 throttle and im spinning the crap out of my 33X12.50-17's. So hopefully it will dry up some tomorrrow to get a good feel of how its doing.
Hak
Hak
Last edited by Haku; May 23, 2004 at 11:43 AM.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi du,
We recommend AutoTap for the vehicle owner who wants to be able to have diagnostic & datalogging capabilities thru a simple plug-n-play connection to the vehicle's OBD-II port. AutoTap is intuitive & easy to set up & use, and can read everything from the standard OBD-II information needed for tuning, to all the manufacturer-specific extended data, too. We've used it, & for it's cost it's a great solution - we've actually been carrying that product line for years, so it can be ordered from us (shameless sales plug).
Just in case you may not already be aware, one thing to keep in mind is that these types of packages require a computer to use - and preferably a laptop, so you're completely portable and can datalog going down the road, making a pass at the dragstrip, or in any situation. It doesn't require much computing power, so just about any Windows laptop will do - there's are also versions for use with a PDA, but I like the laptop route. I recommend having one modern enough to have a USB port, that setup is just a bit "neater" than using the serial port versions. I used the serial port versions for years, they work fine, I just switched with the USB version was released as it's a bit neater.
There are also stand-alone scan tools that can do datalogging as well, for those who do not have access to a laptop - but they are generally going to be significantly more expensive for a unit with good speed & capability - so having a laptop is the hot tip, and anyone that doesn't have one can pick up a good used laptop cheap.
Just give us a call to go over the details, as always.
We recommend AutoTap for the vehicle owner who wants to be able to have diagnostic & datalogging capabilities thru a simple plug-n-play connection to the vehicle's OBD-II port. AutoTap is intuitive & easy to set up & use, and can read everything from the standard OBD-II information needed for tuning, to all the manufacturer-specific extended data, too. We've used it, & for it's cost it's a great solution - we've actually been carrying that product line for years, so it can be ordered from us (shameless sales plug).
Just in case you may not already be aware, one thing to keep in mind is that these types of packages require a computer to use - and preferably a laptop, so you're completely portable and can datalog going down the road, making a pass at the dragstrip, or in any situation. It doesn't require much computing power, so just about any Windows laptop will do - there's are also versions for use with a PDA, but I like the laptop route. I recommend having one modern enough to have a USB port, that setup is just a bit "neater" than using the serial port versions. I used the serial port versions for years, they work fine, I just switched with the USB version was released as it's a bit neater.
There are also stand-alone scan tools that can do datalogging as well, for those who do not have access to a laptop - but they are generally going to be significantly more expensive for a unit with good speed & capability - so having a laptop is the hot tip, and anyone that doesn't have one can pick up a good used laptop cheap.
Just give us a call to go over the details, as always.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Hak,
Glad to hear you got the IAT sensor's relocation taken care of properly. What Scott Graves told you works pretty well, using the 1995 T'bird Super Coupe IAT/ACT sensor & harness setup installed in the manifold is a nice solution - congratulations!
Once the roads dry, you should be able to enjoy some nice performance improvements with your new configuration & custom tuning.
Have fun,
Glad to hear you got the IAT sensor's relocation taken care of properly. What Scott Graves told you works pretty well, using the 1995 T'bird Super Coupe IAT/ACT sensor & harness setup installed in the manifold is a nice solution - congratulations!
Once the roads dry, you should be able to enjoy some nice performance improvements with your new configuration & custom tuning.
Have fun,