Testing in progress!!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 244
Likes: 1
From: Montana
First, you sound very honest, and not a penny pincher.. I have asked many people which one is better, and I have gotten the same info. Theres nothing wrong with what your doing, im sure you will take great care with the packaging and the units. The only thing I would do differently is to run them at least a week each.. And pay close attention to part-half throttle increase. As we have been told about the differences in "all rpm" ect.... What the superchip guy says, makes complete sense "open loop". I may be wrong, but thats why the early chips had you put in a 160 t-stat, to keep your vehicle out of closed loop, therefore, giving you more power all the time. I am still trying to save up for a Procharger, but if that falls through, I would like your opinion on the two..
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Antelope, CA
Wow!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Haku
[B]First, you sound very honest, and not a penny pincher..
I was beginning to think I was wasting everyones time. I apprecaite your post. I'm not sure why I was being slammed, but again, I'm only trying to figure out which I think is best. I will keep you and whoever else would like to know posted.
Thank you again!!
-----------------------------7d41now posted.
Thank you again!!
[B]First, you sound very honest, and not a penny pincher..
I was beginning to think I was wasting everyones time. I apprecaite your post. I'm not sure why I was being slammed, but again, I'm only trying to figure out which I think is best. I will keep you and whoever else would like to know posted.
Thank you again!!
-----------------------------7d41now posted.
Thank you again!!
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, IN
Rich,
No need to appoligize! I did not take your reply as being rude, I was just relating what I have heard here in the past. I have the SuperChip Flip Chip, so I do know the difference between the 87 octane program and the 92 octane program, and not knowing your experience with SuperChips (Remember, I replied here before I saw your other posts), I just wanted to make sure your research was complete and worthwile!
As for the slams, unfortunately it seems to happen alot here lately, and sometimes for no apparent reason. I've been a member here since 1999 when I first purchased my truck, and I can remember it didn't used to be that way! Way too often there is no reason for it!
One piece of advice: Don't even bother to ask for an opinion about another brand of truck on this board! It's enough to incite a riot with some of these folks! Good luck to you with your comparison...
No need to appoligize! I did not take your reply as being rude, I was just relating what I have heard here in the past. I have the SuperChip Flip Chip, so I do know the difference between the 87 octane program and the 92 octane program, and not knowing your experience with SuperChips (Remember, I replied here before I saw your other posts), I just wanted to make sure your research was complete and worthwile!
As for the slams, unfortunately it seems to happen alot here lately, and sometimes for no apparent reason. I've been a member here since 1999 when I first purchased my truck, and I can remember it didn't used to be that way! Way too often there is no reason for it!
One piece of advice: Don't even bother to ask for an opinion about another brand of truck on this board! It's enough to incite a riot with some of these folks! Good luck to you with your comparison...
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Inver Grove Heights, MN.
richgonfishn,
Sorry. Reply may have sounded a little nastier than I ment it to but my opinion hasn't changed. To run both tuners on 87 for a few day and try to make a "seat of the pants" jugment on the tuners is a waste of time. Now, if two friends with the same truck had the two tuners and did a long term 91 octane test, including notes, driving opinions, MPG, and a day at the strip running the trucks aginst each other. Then switched tuners and did the same thing again. THAT would be interesting. I'd follow that thread. Come on guys. There must be two of you with the same truck and the two brands of tuners. Lets have a tuner shootoff.
As far as reading and responding to your thread goes, I'm retired and there's not a lot to do here in Minnesota in the winter. Not for me. anyway. I hate winter. Hadn't planed on coming back but saw there had been a few more posts and took a look. I'll be on my way now. Have a nice day.
Mike
Sorry. Reply may have sounded a little nastier than I ment it to but my opinion hasn't changed. To run both tuners on 87 for a few day and try to make a "seat of the pants" jugment on the tuners is a waste of time. Now, if two friends with the same truck had the two tuners and did a long term 91 octane test, including notes, driving opinions, MPG, and a day at the strip running the trucks aginst each other. Then switched tuners and did the same thing again. THAT would be interesting. I'd follow that thread. Come on guys. There must be two of you with the same truck and the two brands of tuners. Lets have a tuner shootoff.
As far as reading and responding to your thread goes, I'm retired and there's not a lot to do here in Minnesota in the winter. Not for me. anyway. I hate winter. Hadn't planed on coming back but saw there had been a few more posts and took a look. I'll be on my way now. Have a nice day.
Mike
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Phil (openclasspro),
Actually, the 45 HP gain Hypertech claims for the F-150 in their banner ad here will not happen in the F-150, and when you call them they'll correctly tell you to expect about a 12-15 HP gain in the F-150.
The 45 HP gain they claim was actually on an F-250 (an '01, if memory serves), not an F-150, and the deal is that F-250 they used for their example made roughly 30 HP less than it's STOCK factory rating in their "before" test - heck, they show it making only 166 HP at the wheels, as opposed to the 195 HP they normally make bone-stock (5.4 @ 260 HP net at the flywheel - 65-70 HP driveline loss in the automatic = 195 HP for a 2WD, or 190 HP for a 4WD stock).
Now that can happen on occasion, but a 45 HP gain even in an F-250 5.4 is rare, and happens *only* when the vehicle isn't even making it's stock rated power to begin with, just as their truck didn't, due to badly compromised factory tuning - and in all fairness I should point out that the manufacturer can easily do much better, and do in many of these trucks - but in some, they keep it in closed loop even at WOT to try to improve fuel mileage while towing - and then they can't even get into open loop. They're stuck in closed loop running at stoich A/F's (14.64:1) & thus running on the borderline knock table - which is why they make 30 HP less than their stock rating in some cases. The point being, that is something that is not going to be attainable on an F-150.
Now in the F-150's, a 30+ HP gain is possible in those vehicles whose PCM codes don't allow the vehicle to ever transition over into open loop at heavy throttle, but you still won't see any 45 HP gains in an F-150 - just remember the 45 HP claimed in the banner ad is not for the F-150, it's for one specific F-250 that made 30 HP less than it's stock rating to begin with - most likely someone there just made an honest mistake in their marketing text for that ad, as they don't claim that when you call them.
This is what we were talking about the other day on the phone by the way, the larger than 25 HP gains in a stock F-150 from tuning alone are only possible in those trucks whose PCM software revisions effectively prevent them from going open loop by requiring things like a load of 189% (ve) to go open loop, or 9, 13, 25 second delays to go open loop, etc., etc., so they just can't get into open loop (or take forever to do so) & thus not make their correct power. There are many separate parameters in the powertrain program that actually control if & when the engine is allowed to go open loop, and under what conditions.
For example, take JMC's 2000 4.6 5-speed truck with a code of PCM2 - in that code, there is a 9 second delay *after* you go to full-throttle before it will transition over into open loop - the load requirements in that code aren't too bad, but the 9 second delay keeps him from going open loop & thus making the correct power for 9 full seconds after he goes wide-open throttle - which we've fixed for him just recently & he'll be installing soon.
Or take Neal the HP Freak's BOJ4 code - now in *that* one, there is no basic time delay to go open loop at all, and the load requirements to go open loop aren't too terribly bad - while it does require 110% ve up thru 2000 rpm, and 100% thru 2500 rpm, after that it quickly transitions to requiring only 60% ve thru the rest of the rpm range - so it's one of the better-performing codes in stock trim once it's up around 3000 rpm or so.
Or take the SVB1 & SVB2 series of codes, which many 2001 5.4 F-150's have - once again, they can't *ever* go open loop stock, as they require a load of 189% to do so, and thus can't ever get into open loop. But a 1997 5.4 DJJ3 has no time delay and never requires more than 95% load to go open loop........
Many people wonder why 2 seemingly identically configured F-150 vehicles have such different levels of performance when buddies have the same modifications (say, both have a Micro Tuner) and run each other at the track or on the street, and this is one big reason why - all the variances in being able to go open loop over all the thousands of different codes from 1997-2003 - it does not correspond to model year, or any particular options, etc., this is completely random from one code to the next. It's just another of many reasons why specializing in the tuning of this F-series truck platform as we do is so critical to getting the best possible results, as these trucks have more different PCM codes each model year than any other vehicle - sometimes hundreds of different codes each model year, where in a Mustang GT or Cobra you might see 2-7 codes or so each year.
Luckily, with the Superchips Custom Tuning tools we have complete control over all of that in our custom tunes, for any code, as well as virtually every parameter inside the PCM.
Anyway, that's some info for you on that 45 HP deal...............
Have fun,
Actually, the 45 HP gain Hypertech claims for the F-150 in their banner ad here will not happen in the F-150, and when you call them they'll correctly tell you to expect about a 12-15 HP gain in the F-150.
The 45 HP gain they claim was actually on an F-250 (an '01, if memory serves), not an F-150, and the deal is that F-250 they used for their example made roughly 30 HP less than it's STOCK factory rating in their "before" test - heck, they show it making only 166 HP at the wheels, as opposed to the 195 HP they normally make bone-stock (5.4 @ 260 HP net at the flywheel - 65-70 HP driveline loss in the automatic = 195 HP for a 2WD, or 190 HP for a 4WD stock).
Now that can happen on occasion, but a 45 HP gain even in an F-250 5.4 is rare, and happens *only* when the vehicle isn't even making it's stock rated power to begin with, just as their truck didn't, due to badly compromised factory tuning - and in all fairness I should point out that the manufacturer can easily do much better, and do in many of these trucks - but in some, they keep it in closed loop even at WOT to try to improve fuel mileage while towing - and then they can't even get into open loop. They're stuck in closed loop running at stoich A/F's (14.64:1) & thus running on the borderline knock table - which is why they make 30 HP less than their stock rating in some cases. The point being, that is something that is not going to be attainable on an F-150.
Now in the F-150's, a 30+ HP gain is possible in those vehicles whose PCM codes don't allow the vehicle to ever transition over into open loop at heavy throttle, but you still won't see any 45 HP gains in an F-150 - just remember the 45 HP claimed in the banner ad is not for the F-150, it's for one specific F-250 that made 30 HP less than it's stock rating to begin with - most likely someone there just made an honest mistake in their marketing text for that ad, as they don't claim that when you call them.
This is what we were talking about the other day on the phone by the way, the larger than 25 HP gains in a stock F-150 from tuning alone are only possible in those trucks whose PCM software revisions effectively prevent them from going open loop by requiring things like a load of 189% (ve) to go open loop, or 9, 13, 25 second delays to go open loop, etc., etc., so they just can't get into open loop (or take forever to do so) & thus not make their correct power. There are many separate parameters in the powertrain program that actually control if & when the engine is allowed to go open loop, and under what conditions.
For example, take JMC's 2000 4.6 5-speed truck with a code of PCM2 - in that code, there is a 9 second delay *after* you go to full-throttle before it will transition over into open loop - the load requirements in that code aren't too bad, but the 9 second delay keeps him from going open loop & thus making the correct power for 9 full seconds after he goes wide-open throttle - which we've fixed for him just recently & he'll be installing soon.
Or take Neal the HP Freak's BOJ4 code - now in *that* one, there is no basic time delay to go open loop at all, and the load requirements to go open loop aren't too terribly bad - while it does require 110% ve up thru 2000 rpm, and 100% thru 2500 rpm, after that it quickly transitions to requiring only 60% ve thru the rest of the rpm range - so it's one of the better-performing codes in stock trim once it's up around 3000 rpm or so.
Or take the SVB1 & SVB2 series of codes, which many 2001 5.4 F-150's have - once again, they can't *ever* go open loop stock, as they require a load of 189% to do so, and thus can't ever get into open loop. But a 1997 5.4 DJJ3 has no time delay and never requires more than 95% load to go open loop........
Many people wonder why 2 seemingly identically configured F-150 vehicles have such different levels of performance when buddies have the same modifications (say, both have a Micro Tuner) and run each other at the track or on the street, and this is one big reason why - all the variances in being able to go open loop over all the thousands of different codes from 1997-2003 - it does not correspond to model year, or any particular options, etc., this is completely random from one code to the next. It's just another of many reasons why specializing in the tuning of this F-series truck platform as we do is so critical to getting the best possible results, as these trucks have more different PCM codes each model year than any other vehicle - sometimes hundreds of different codes each model year, where in a Mustang GT or Cobra you might see 2-7 codes or so each year.
Luckily, with the Superchips Custom Tuning tools we have complete control over all of that in our custom tunes, for any code, as well as virtually every parameter inside the PCM.
Anyway, that's some info for you on that 45 HP deal...............
Have fun,
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
if you have a dealer that willing to let you try both then thats great.
how about giving the dealer a plug since he is treating you so good. Ask him if he would do this for others. might be worth his time to pay or split you doing dyno time with both so he can use it as a sales tool. or maybe you can dyno to see whats better and share the results with him for letting you try both.
i wonder why he didnt mention the superchip in the first place?
btw, as a business owner i take pride in my product and my business, if i found out someone purchased a product, used it as a tool or the compare and then returned it, i would feel like my company and my self was used. if the product preforms as advertised is not defective then i will not take it back, sorry i dont have Walmarts return policy. nothing personal and like i said if you have a dealer that is working with you then great. nothing against you, this is just my opion on doing business.
no anger, just got back from cub scout pinewood derby and my son placed 1St in his age group, the smile on his face, life is good.
how about giving the dealer a plug since he is treating you so good. Ask him if he would do this for others. might be worth his time to pay or split you doing dyno time with both so he can use it as a sales tool. or maybe you can dyno to see whats better and share the results with him for letting you try both.
i wonder why he didnt mention the superchip in the first place?
btw, as a business owner i take pride in my product and my business, if i found out someone purchased a product, used it as a tool or the compare and then returned it, i would feel like my company and my self was used. if the product preforms as advertised is not defective then i will not take it back, sorry i dont have Walmarts return policy. nothing personal and like i said if you have a dealer that is working with you then great. nothing against you, this is just my opion on doing business.
no anger, just got back from cub scout pinewood derby and my son placed 1St in his age group, the smile on his face, life is good.
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Antelope, CA
Sorry...
Sorry, been real busy and now having a broken elbow, everything takes twice as long to do. I've ran the Hypertech for 4-5 days now. I am fairly impressed with the 87 programming. I don't really feel the difference jumping on the accelerator from a stand still, but lets say I'm going 30-35 and jump into it. It's allot stronger. The acceleration is pretty impressive. I did it and it hit 65 and was still pulling hard... but noticed a cop coming in opposite direction. I think I will take some advice and go straight to the Max Micro Tuner. I didn't get around to ordering it, so I'll send the Hyperchip back and go with the Micro Tuner. I know it will at LEAST be as good as the Hypertech. From all the feedback it's even going to be better. I will post my report after receiving and running the Micro Tuner. For anyone who didn't agree with what I was doing, I'm planning on keeping to Micro Tuner 100%.
Thanks, it's been fun. I'll keep you posted!!
Thanks, it's been fun. I'll keep you posted!!
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Antelope, CA
You'll never believe me!!
Ok, I know I will get some bad rap for this, but I think I like the Hypertech III better. Why? Well, as I mentioned, I ran the Hypertech with the 87 program. Even though I couldn't tell a big difference from a stand still, I could break the tires loose & spin the tires from a stand still... which I couldn't prior to the Hypertech III 87 program. The mid range accelleration was very noticable in the Hypertech III 87 program. I never tried the 91 due to the fact I only had the programmer for a short period and never ran out of 87 gas. I shipped the Hypertech III back and had them send me the Max Micro Tuner in return. (paid about $60.00 more for the Max Tuner) I received the Max Micro Tuner and downloaded the 91 No-Tow Performance. I was just about empty and filled up with 91 Supreme fuel. Unless I did something wrong... which everything seemed to take while programming, I'm NOT impressed with the Micro Tuner. I understand it's all seat of the pants testing, but I had MORE get up and go with the Hypertech III 87 program. Maybe I've put the tire size in wrong? I put 32" tall and I have BFG AT 285/70 R17. The Micro Tuner did not ask if I had aftermarket air intake... which I believe the Hypertech did. Maybe the Hypertech needs more time? Maybe I've done something wrong? I've gone through about 3/4 of a tank. Let the bashing begin....... all I can say is I really don't feel any difference between have the Micro Tuner is or out. Also the Micro Tuner does not ask if you have an aftermarket exhaust. I think the Hypertech III did. Any suggestions? I'm sure I've sais this, but this has all been done in my 02 F-150, 4x4, SuperCrew, 5.4. I'm half tempted to send the Micro Tuner back and have them send me the Hyoertech, BUT I won't!! I don't want to get hounded for being one of those horrible customers. Oh, the site I purchased both of these units from is www.tsetruckstuff.com
They have the best prices on Huskey Liners... or at least the cheapest I found. Let me know what you think? I wanted and expected MORE power!!! Maybe Mike know's why I'm not too happy? That is kind of harsh... I won't say I'm not happy with the Micro Tuner... I just expected more. Thank you for reading...
They have the best prices on Huskey Liners... or at least the cheapest I found. Let me know what you think? I wanted and expected MORE power!!! Maybe Mike know's why I'm not too happy? That is kind of harsh... I won't say I'm not happy with the Micro Tuner... I just expected more. Thank you for reading...
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
if your not happy, your not happy, send it back and get what makes you happy.
i will say this, back in the early 90's a chip would give instance smile, i did it at the track and would drop 2/10th every time. the newer obii computer seems to have the ability to "learn" a little, this is what i have heard and can neither confirm or deny it. it is possible that the micro tuner has more control but takes longer to "learn" the truck, or it could be that the hypertech i better dialed in to what you are looking for. my truck seemed much faster a month ago when Houston had cold dry air as opposed to lattely when it is 60's but very humid. the ford modular seems to be sensitive to the weather conditions, just something to think about.
i will say this, back in the early 90's a chip would give instance smile, i did it at the track and would drop 2/10th every time. the newer obii computer seems to have the ability to "learn" a little, this is what i have heard and can neither confirm or deny it. it is possible that the micro tuner has more control but takes longer to "learn" the truck, or it could be that the hypertech i better dialed in to what you are looking for. my truck seemed much faster a month ago when Houston had cold dry air as opposed to lattely when it is 60's but very humid. the ford modular seems to be sensitive to the weather conditions, just something to think about.
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Antelope, CA
Thank you..
Thanks... I just knew I would raise some eyebrows with what I've found. I understand both products are benificial. Most people on this site are fans of Mike's and back the Micro Tuner. That is fine and dandy. I'm simply saying I really don't feel any difference with the Micro Tuner 91 octane program. I could definantly tell a difference with the Hypertech III 87 octane program.'m hoping it gets better. Thank you......