Not so impressed.....
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
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From: Dallas, TX
Not so impressed.....
Open for discussion.....
I installed my SuperTuner on my '02 F-150 4x4 5.4 about 3months ago. I'm not overly impressed to be honest. I really only felt very slight gains,more so in the low end, which is good. I really only feel the juice if I really put it down, otherwise not much. My gut feel is with the added weight of the 4x4 and 4" lift it simply may not make that much difference! Any other thoughts on this??
I installed my SuperTuner on my '02 F-150 4x4 5.4 about 3months ago. I'm not overly impressed to be honest. I really only felt very slight gains,more so in the low end, which is good. I really only feel the juice if I really put it down, otherwise not much. My gut feel is with the added weight of the 4x4 and 4" lift it simply may not make that much difference! Any other thoughts on this??
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 994
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From: Sparks, Nevada
Hi
As mentioned.."expectations"..is a good way to put it.
Surely you read ALL the posts here? Lots of variables. I had a real understanding of what to expect. For me it was best bang for the buck. Obviously big bang/big bucks.
Good luck...OT
As mentioned.."expectations"..is a good way to put it.
Surely you read ALL the posts here? Lots of variables. I had a real understanding of what to expect. For me it was best bang for the buck. Obviously big bang/big bucks.
Good luck...OT
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,247
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From: El Cajon, CA
I read you mentioned a 4" lift. So I am also making the assumption that you put on larger tires as well.
One thing I do know if when you put on larger tires you will lose some performance and if you really kick up the size of the tires you can lose a lot of performance. Basically think of a 10 speed bike and then trying to pedal up a hill in a higher gear, it's really hard. Even if a stronger person does this it's still going to never go as fast as if you switched down a gear or 2.
To give you an example of this, I went from 265/70/17s to 285/70/17 and imediatly noticed a performance hit. Also it put my spedo off by 3.5%. Now you can correct that with the programer but the gearing is still going to be off overall from factory.
Again I am making the assumption on your tires being bigger as a 4" lift would look funny with stock tires.
Oh and my truck has the 3.55 gears as well as most f150s, many though do have the 3.73 and 4.10 gears among others.
One thing I do know if when you put on larger tires you will lose some performance and if you really kick up the size of the tires you can lose a lot of performance. Basically think of a 10 speed bike and then trying to pedal up a hill in a higher gear, it's really hard. Even if a stronger person does this it's still going to never go as fast as if you switched down a gear or 2.
To give you an example of this, I went from 265/70/17s to 285/70/17 and imediatly noticed a performance hit. Also it put my spedo off by 3.5%. Now you can correct that with the programer but the gearing is still going to be off overall from factory.
Again I am making the assumption on your tires being bigger as a 4" lift would look funny with stock tires.
Oh and my truck has the 3.55 gears as well as most f150s, many though do have the 3.73 and 4.10 gears among others.
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
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From: Dallas, TX
Checkin' back.....
Yes sir you are correct. Upgraded tires to ProComp 315/75/16's All-Terrains and of course brushed alloy Wheels! I'm pretty sure my settings are correct as I adjusted for the tire height not size per the directions. My next thought is to install headers but I'm not sure I want that for a daily driver.
biggmike2
biggmike2
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Joined: Mar 1998
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From: Virginia
Hi biggmike2,
Just to give you some feedback on this, there are a couple of basic issues here that I should mention, that I think may help your perspective on this a bit..........
1.) Basic power-to-weight ratio & expectations, etc. - you've got upwards of a 3-ton truck there, 5500-6000 lbs., and it's also lifted, so it's aero resistance is sky-high (pardon the pun). Even if it does not have taller tires than stock, an 8%-10% power gain from the Superchips tuning isn't going to make it go a lot faster, or give you a big bang in the seat of the pants in a 2.5-3 ton truck. So remember, an 8%-10% power gain (HP, the torque gain is about 13%) can only do so much in a heavy lifted vehicle. For example, your stock power-to-weight ratio is about 23.08 lbs. for every horsepower (6000/260), whereas with the Superchip tuning, it's been reduced to (and I'm using a bit conservative figure here of a 20 HP gain at the flywheel) about 21.43 lbs. for every horsepower (6000/280) with the Micro Tuner. That's not a big enough change to feel a big difference in the seat of the pants. The Micro Tuner is doing it's job, you simply have a *lot* of weight to haul around for your power level.
2.) The single most common mistake - trying to judge the results of any performance modification by the "seat of the pants" in these heavy vehicles. Why? Because in any heavy vehicle, and especially one like yours that is a heavy 4x4 and is also lifted so it's aero resistance is even higher, you really can't "feel" a half-second reduction in 1/4 mile times in the seat of the pants very well. Which is why we have told everyone for years to forget trying to evaluate *any* performance modification by the seat of the pants anytime you are over about 3600-3800 lbs. of vehicle weight, and/or have a truck, as trucks have a big aero profile that really hurts their performance as speed increases. Seat of the pants just doesn't tell the story. In reading your post, you do mention that you can feel it, so I'd say you're doing very well to feel anything in the seat of the pants in that heavy lifted truck.
The way to properly evaluate the results of a performance modification is to do before & after timed acceleration runs, either at the drag strip or using a GTech Pro Competition model, which is inexpensive & can be used anywhere. And you'll want to do the runs not only on the same day, but preferably a 3-run format within a 90 minute time period. We run them first stock, then tuned, and then stock again, so you can see a clear pattern of the change. That won't show you the *total* gain from the tuning changes, as that takes around 350-500 miles or so to get the full effects, but that will at least show you the immediate difference.
The average amount of performance improvement in these late-model F-150's is about a half-second off the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times, with some getting as much as a full second off their 1/4 mile times.
In your case, you may also have an additional factor hurting your performance even more, which would be tires that are taller than about 31" or so. You mention the truck is lifted, so you probably have also installed taller tires. If you have installed taller tires but have not *also* changed the gear ratio to compensate for the taller tires, then your engine is constantly laboring well below it's power band because it can't turn enough rpms for any speed in any gear to perform & respond properly. At this point we have no idea what tire size or gear ratio you are running, so I don't know if that is what's really going on here or not, but if so, that will really kill performance & needs to be corrected with a gear ratio change. Use 4.10's for 32-33" tires, 4.56 gears for 35" tires, and so on.
The bottom line is that the Superchips tuning is the best bang for the buck mod, as nothing else for the same or less cost will improve the performance as much, reduce acceleration times as much. But that still doesn't change the fact that you've got about 3 tons of vehicle that has been lifted to haul around there, and a 10% power gain can only do so much to change that.
What you might want to do is to give us a call, and have us go over this in detail with you, and show you just exactly which modifications you should consider doing next, not only in terms of bang for the buck, but also in terms of how you use your vehicle, etc., we'll be happy to help. For example, unless you have already done the tuning, intake, exhaust, electric fans & underdrive pulleys, doing headers should not be your next modification, as there are much better mods in term of the actual 'bang for the buck." Give us a call & we can lay all that out for yo, so you can give it some thought, etc.
I hope this helps a bit with your perspective on this, & best of luck with your truck!
Just to give you some feedback on this, there are a couple of basic issues here that I should mention, that I think may help your perspective on this a bit..........
1.) Basic power-to-weight ratio & expectations, etc. - you've got upwards of a 3-ton truck there, 5500-6000 lbs., and it's also lifted, so it's aero resistance is sky-high (pardon the pun). Even if it does not have taller tires than stock, an 8%-10% power gain from the Superchips tuning isn't going to make it go a lot faster, or give you a big bang in the seat of the pants in a 2.5-3 ton truck. So remember, an 8%-10% power gain (HP, the torque gain is about 13%) can only do so much in a heavy lifted vehicle. For example, your stock power-to-weight ratio is about 23.08 lbs. for every horsepower (6000/260), whereas with the Superchip tuning, it's been reduced to (and I'm using a bit conservative figure here of a 20 HP gain at the flywheel) about 21.43 lbs. for every horsepower (6000/280) with the Micro Tuner. That's not a big enough change to feel a big difference in the seat of the pants. The Micro Tuner is doing it's job, you simply have a *lot* of weight to haul around for your power level.
2.) The single most common mistake - trying to judge the results of any performance modification by the "seat of the pants" in these heavy vehicles. Why? Because in any heavy vehicle, and especially one like yours that is a heavy 4x4 and is also lifted so it's aero resistance is even higher, you really can't "feel" a half-second reduction in 1/4 mile times in the seat of the pants very well. Which is why we have told everyone for years to forget trying to evaluate *any* performance modification by the seat of the pants anytime you are over about 3600-3800 lbs. of vehicle weight, and/or have a truck, as trucks have a big aero profile that really hurts their performance as speed increases. Seat of the pants just doesn't tell the story. In reading your post, you do mention that you can feel it, so I'd say you're doing very well to feel anything in the seat of the pants in that heavy lifted truck.
The way to properly evaluate the results of a performance modification is to do before & after timed acceleration runs, either at the drag strip or using a GTech Pro Competition model, which is inexpensive & can be used anywhere. And you'll want to do the runs not only on the same day, but preferably a 3-run format within a 90 minute time period. We run them first stock, then tuned, and then stock again, so you can see a clear pattern of the change. That won't show you the *total* gain from the tuning changes, as that takes around 350-500 miles or so to get the full effects, but that will at least show you the immediate difference.
The average amount of performance improvement in these late-model F-150's is about a half-second off the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times, with some getting as much as a full second off their 1/4 mile times.
In your case, you may also have an additional factor hurting your performance even more, which would be tires that are taller than about 31" or so. You mention the truck is lifted, so you probably have also installed taller tires. If you have installed taller tires but have not *also* changed the gear ratio to compensate for the taller tires, then your engine is constantly laboring well below it's power band because it can't turn enough rpms for any speed in any gear to perform & respond properly. At this point we have no idea what tire size or gear ratio you are running, so I don't know if that is what's really going on here or not, but if so, that will really kill performance & needs to be corrected with a gear ratio change. Use 4.10's for 32-33" tires, 4.56 gears for 35" tires, and so on.
The bottom line is that the Superchips tuning is the best bang for the buck mod, as nothing else for the same or less cost will improve the performance as much, reduce acceleration times as much. But that still doesn't change the fact that you've got about 3 tons of vehicle that has been lifted to haul around there, and a 10% power gain can only do so much to change that.
What you might want to do is to give us a call, and have us go over this in detail with you, and show you just exactly which modifications you should consider doing next, not only in terms of bang for the buck, but also in terms of how you use your vehicle, etc., we'll be happy to help. For example, unless you have already done the tuning, intake, exhaust, electric fans & underdrive pulleys, doing headers should not be your next modification, as there are much better mods in term of the actual 'bang for the buck." Give us a call & we can lay all that out for yo, so you can give it some thought, etc.
I hope this helps a bit with your perspective on this, & best of luck with your truck!
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; Aug 11, 2003 at 01:09 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 204
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From: MADISON, WI
Keep in mind that you have 5000+ lbs to push down the road, and you need new rear end gears next for sure. Until you get those big big tires' ratio corrected with some bigger gears, you aren't going to see anything. Go back and talk to the guy you bought the microtuner from and see what he can tell you about gears.
If you want that heavy truck to perform like a light Mustang (and it can), you need 400+ hp not the 280+290 you have now.
If you want that heavy truck to perform like a light Mustang (and it can), you need 400+ hp not the 280+290 you have now.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Western Massachusetts
I think I saw it said somewhere that for a one horsepower gain you will have to spend thirty dollars. It's not cheap to get serious power gains.
When I got my first Superchips modual I could "feel" the difference. I guess the weight does play a big part in how much you will "feel" the gains. I liked the power gains but realized that I wanted more. It cost more than a few hundred bucks, but there is no question that I've gained some significant power. You can too, but plan on spending at least a few thousand.
When I got my first Superchips modual I could "feel" the difference. I guess the weight does play a big part in how much you will "feel" the gains. I liked the power gains but realized that I wanted more. It cost more than a few hundred bucks, but there is no question that I've gained some significant power. You can too, but plan on spending at least a few thousand.