Supertuner and plugs
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Supertuner and plugs
Hey all!
Just wanted to pass along my info, I just added the Supertuner program to my F150 and man it really does make a significant difference. I also changed my plugs to the Denso Irridiums. Didn't really notice much from them but then again, I haven't changed plug wires yet and these are the factory wires with 78K on them. I do have a couple of questions for Mike T though.
Mike, I accidentally broke off the needle tip of one of the new spark plugs I got from you (those are some fine little suckers at the tip!). So I gapped that plug to the remaining portion of the tip. I have been running the truck for a week or so and have noticed no problems. Should I go ahead and get another plug from you anyways or do you think it will be ok the way it is? Another thing, the factory plugs were gapped at .074 and the manual, dealer, and auto shop all said to go with .054? Why the big difference? The manual states to torque the plugs to 85-139 ft lbs. Is that right? That seemed like alot. I got them hand tight with a torque wrench but it never "clicked" and I didn't want to over do it fearing I would never get them back out. Any info here would be appreciated.
Thanks alot,
Nvr Enuff
99 Flareside F150 4x4 ORP
4.6L 3.55gears (I know, should be 4.10's)
K&N filter (soon to be AF1)
Superchips Microtuner
Denso Irridium Plugs
Gatorback serp belt
Xlerator muffler on true dual exhaust
33X12.50 MT Baja HP's
Just wanted to pass along my info, I just added the Supertuner program to my F150 and man it really does make a significant difference. I also changed my plugs to the Denso Irridiums. Didn't really notice much from them but then again, I haven't changed plug wires yet and these are the factory wires with 78K on them. I do have a couple of questions for Mike T though.
Mike, I accidentally broke off the needle tip of one of the new spark plugs I got from you (those are some fine little suckers at the tip!). So I gapped that plug to the remaining portion of the tip. I have been running the truck for a week or so and have noticed no problems. Should I go ahead and get another plug from you anyways or do you think it will be ok the way it is? Another thing, the factory plugs were gapped at .074 and the manual, dealer, and auto shop all said to go with .054? Why the big difference? The manual states to torque the plugs to 85-139 ft lbs. Is that right? That seemed like alot. I got them hand tight with a torque wrench but it never "clicked" and I didn't want to over do it fearing I would never get them back out. Any info here would be appreciated.
Thanks alot,
Nvr Enuff
99 Flareside F150 4x4 ORP
4.6L 3.55gears (I know, should be 4.10's)
K&N filter (soon to be AF1)
Superchips Microtuner
Denso Irridium Plugs
Gatorback serp belt
Xlerator muffler on true dual exhaust
33X12.50 MT Baja HP's
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Joined: Dec 1969
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From: Nor-Cal,USA
nvr enuff
The manual states to torque the plugs to 85-139 ft lbs. Is that right? That seemed like alot. I got them hand tight with a
I sure hope that is just a typo error and that you really did not try and torques your sparks plugs in between 85-139 FT.LBS that is a torques spec for something like caliper bracket spark plugs should only be in INCH POUNDS at the most. I myself have been looking at those Iridium plugs and my main concern was how do you gap them without breaking that electorde off it sure looks fragile. You would think that something like that they would set the gap at the factory. Your concern over not egtting the plugs out it the least of your worries if you tried to torque them that high you seriously risk strpping all the threads out of the head with that much torque.
Richard D.
WHILE YOUR HERE CHECK OUT MY GALLERY:
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The manual states to torque the plugs to 85-139 ft lbs. Is that right? That seemed like alot. I got them hand tight with a
I sure hope that is just a typo error and that you really did not try and torques your sparks plugs in between 85-139 FT.LBS that is a torques spec for something like caliper bracket spark plugs should only be in INCH POUNDS at the most. I myself have been looking at those Iridium plugs and my main concern was how do you gap them without breaking that electorde off it sure looks fragile. You would think that something like that they would set the gap at the factory. Your concern over not egtting the plugs out it the least of your worries if you tried to torque them that high you seriously risk strpping all the threads out of the head with that much torque.
Richard D.
WHILE YOUR HERE CHECK OUT MY GALLERY:
https://www.f150online.com/galleries....cfm?gnum=2479
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From: Virginia
Hi Nvr,
That's a misprint, gotta be, *no* spark plugs should ever be torqued like that!
It's probably *inch/lbs.*, and not lbs./ft.
Take a good look at the Denso web site and you will see they give *excellent* instructions on how to seat your plugs in just about any kind of motor. Point your browser to http://www.densoiridium.com , and then examine the links at the upper left side of your screen & you'll find one that will give you those instructions with excellent diagrams, etc.
And yes, you will need to replace that one spark plug, you're lucky it's firing at all, and it won't for long, so I'd replace it now. The Denso's use the world's smallest firing tip, just 0.4 mm, so you do have to be careful gapping them, you can't gap them like you would a traditional plug, you can't put any pressure or force on the firing tip. Actually, if you ever look at a stock spark plug from a Lightning, you'll see the factory plug looks a lot like the Denso, using a small firing tip like that, all the supercharged 5.4's get that kind of plug as they need all the help they can get with the weak coil packs used in the COP systems.
That .074 plug gap is also too large, but I'm not at all surprised to hear that your stock plugs had that much gap with that many miles on them; that's due to plug wear of course, I seriously doubt they were installed at .074 gap by Ford.
For F-150 4.6 non-COP motors, we generally don't run more than .050 gap, and that's with our upgraded ignition package, the performance wires & coil packs. Gap 'em to .050 & you should be fine. We look at this from the standpoint of being able to pull to redline in the higher gears even on high-humidity days, as all it takes is one time at 90% humidity & you probably won't be able to pull to redline in each gear without having spark blowout. So we recommend running 'em @ .050 & you'll pull to redline cleanly even in 100% humidity.
Just a quick tip on installing plugs into these aluminum head mod motors, we don't use a torque wrench as you can't get one on every plug, and there are some you have to use extensions, swivel sockets, etc. which will skew torque readings anyway. Tighten the plug down just until it's "snug." Then tighten an additional 1/8th to NO MORE THAN 1/4 additional turn, & that's it, they're properly tightened in these heads.
Overtightening spark plugs will distort the threads and cause the spark plugs to loosen up over time. Eventually, you will literally launch a plug right out of the motor, damaging the cylinder head(s), requiring repair or replacement, big $$$.
By all means, do take a look at the densoiridium.com web site for those instructions & tips, and then go back, loosen all those plugs, and then install them as I've described here, tighten just until snug, then 1/8 to 1/4 additional turn.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your new go-fast parts, thanks for your post & good luck!
That's a misprint, gotta be, *no* spark plugs should ever be torqued like that!
It's probably *inch/lbs.*, and not lbs./ft. Take a good look at the Denso web site and you will see they give *excellent* instructions on how to seat your plugs in just about any kind of motor. Point your browser to http://www.densoiridium.com , and then examine the links at the upper left side of your screen & you'll find one that will give you those instructions with excellent diagrams, etc.
And yes, you will need to replace that one spark plug, you're lucky it's firing at all, and it won't for long, so I'd replace it now. The Denso's use the world's smallest firing tip, just 0.4 mm, so you do have to be careful gapping them, you can't gap them like you would a traditional plug, you can't put any pressure or force on the firing tip. Actually, if you ever look at a stock spark plug from a Lightning, you'll see the factory plug looks a lot like the Denso, using a small firing tip like that, all the supercharged 5.4's get that kind of plug as they need all the help they can get with the weak coil packs used in the COP systems.
That .074 plug gap is also too large, but I'm not at all surprised to hear that your stock plugs had that much gap with that many miles on them; that's due to plug wear of course, I seriously doubt they were installed at .074 gap by Ford.
For F-150 4.6 non-COP motors, we generally don't run more than .050 gap, and that's with our upgraded ignition package, the performance wires & coil packs. Gap 'em to .050 & you should be fine. We look at this from the standpoint of being able to pull to redline in the higher gears even on high-humidity days, as all it takes is one time at 90% humidity & you probably won't be able to pull to redline in each gear without having spark blowout. So we recommend running 'em @ .050 & you'll pull to redline cleanly even in 100% humidity.
Just a quick tip on installing plugs into these aluminum head mod motors, we don't use a torque wrench as you can't get one on every plug, and there are some you have to use extensions, swivel sockets, etc. which will skew torque readings anyway. Tighten the plug down just until it's "snug." Then tighten an additional 1/8th to NO MORE THAN 1/4 additional turn, & that's it, they're properly tightened in these heads.
Overtightening spark plugs will distort the threads and cause the spark plugs to loosen up over time. Eventually, you will literally launch a plug right out of the motor, damaging the cylinder head(s), requiring repair or replacement, big $$$.
By all means, do take a look at the densoiridium.com web site for those instructions & tips, and then go back, loosen all those plugs, and then install them as I've described here, tighten just until snug, then 1/8 to 1/4 additional turn.
Glad to hear you're enjoying your new go-fast parts, thanks for your post & good luck!
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Richard D and Mike T,
Thanks alot for your replies! I went back and checked the manual because I really thought it said ft-lbs. In fact the column heading does say that. However, in little print next to the numbers, it does say in-lbs. You can imagine my fear, so last night I went and pulled each spark plug and checked them. They really weren't installed very tight (except one). I remember putting them in and thinking that I knew the ft-lbs recommendation was too much so I used the snug and 1/4 turn theory. Now they are instlled correctly. Thanks again from bringing it to my attention. It is guys like you who help out the rest of us "mechanically challenged". Mike, I will be placing an order for another plug too.
Thanks!
Nvr Enuff
99 Flareside F150 4x4 ORP
4.6L 3.55gears (I know, should be 4.10's)
K&N filter (soon to be AF1)
Superchips Microtuner
Denso Irridium Plugs
Gatorback serp belt
Xlerator muffler on true dual exhaust
33X12.50 MT Baja HP's
Thanks alot for your replies! I went back and checked the manual because I really thought it said ft-lbs. In fact the column heading does say that. However, in little print next to the numbers, it does say in-lbs. You can imagine my fear, so last night I went and pulled each spark plug and checked them. They really weren't installed very tight (except one). I remember putting them in and thinking that I knew the ft-lbs recommendation was too much so I used the snug and 1/4 turn theory. Now they are instlled correctly. Thanks again from bringing it to my attention. It is guys like you who help out the rest of us "mechanically challenged". Mike, I will be placing an order for another plug too.
Thanks!
Nvr Enuff
99 Flareside F150 4x4 ORP
4.6L 3.55gears (I know, should be 4.10's)
K&N filter (soon to be AF1)
Superchips Microtuner
Denso Irridium Plugs
Gatorback serp belt
Xlerator muffler on true dual exhaust
33X12.50 MT Baja HP's
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
From: Nor-Cal,USA
Glad to have helped and alos glad to see that hopefully no damage to your trcuk was done.
Richard D.
WHILE YOUR HERE CHECK OUT MY GALLERY:
https://www.f150online.com/galleries....cfm?gnum=2479
Richard D.
WHILE YOUR HERE CHECK OUT MY GALLERY:
https://www.f150online.com/galleries....cfm?gnum=2479
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi Nvr & Richard,
Nvr, glad to hear you went back and re-did those plugs, good job.
Nvr & Richard, on gapping those Denso's it's really very easy, you just have to remember that you can't put any pressure on the firing tip, that's all. You can still use a standard feeler gauge, you just need to change your technique for altering the gap. We used to, in effect, end up prying against the firing tip (kinda-sorta) sometimes in adjusting the gap on standard plugs, but with these thin tip plugs you only move the *electrode* with your gap tool, meaning the curved part that the spark plug sends the spark to. And then just use a bit more gentle touch when checking the gap with your feeler gauge. That fine tip is not so fragile that it cannot be properly gapped with standard tools, just don't put any pressure on the firing tip (especially sideways!) & you're fine.
I had to adjust myself, I was very much used to just stuffing a feeler gauge in without having to be gentle about it or really give it any thought, it either fit or it was too tight or loose. With these plugs, you just need to be careful when measuring the gap and when changing it, so that you don't apply pressure (actually, off-center pressure but we'll say *any* pressure of any kind to be safe) to the firing tip & then you can use standard gapping tools.
Most people make their mistake either when cramming in a feeler gauge a bit "roughly" (as many of us older guys are used to), or when changing the gap they apply pressure (usually inadvertently) on the firing tip, in effect "prying" on it, and *that* can't be done.
Once you get used to this, and it only takes a plug or two, it's really very easy to gap these plugs.
And no matter what, I will *never* just run an out of the box gap without checking it very carefully.
Hope that helps!
Nvr, glad to hear you went back and re-did those plugs, good job.
Nvr & Richard, on gapping those Denso's it's really very easy, you just have to remember that you can't put any pressure on the firing tip, that's all. You can still use a standard feeler gauge, you just need to change your technique for altering the gap. We used to, in effect, end up prying against the firing tip (kinda-sorta) sometimes in adjusting the gap on standard plugs, but with these thin tip plugs you only move the *electrode* with your gap tool, meaning the curved part that the spark plug sends the spark to. And then just use a bit more gentle touch when checking the gap with your feeler gauge. That fine tip is not so fragile that it cannot be properly gapped with standard tools, just don't put any pressure on the firing tip (especially sideways!) & you're fine.
I had to adjust myself, I was very much used to just stuffing a feeler gauge in without having to be gentle about it or really give it any thought, it either fit or it was too tight or loose. With these plugs, you just need to be careful when measuring the gap and when changing it, so that you don't apply pressure (actually, off-center pressure but we'll say *any* pressure of any kind to be safe) to the firing tip & then you can use standard gapping tools.
Most people make their mistake either when cramming in a feeler gauge a bit "roughly" (as many of us older guys are used to), or when changing the gap they apply pressure (usually inadvertently) on the firing tip, in effect "prying" on it, and *that* can't be done.
Once you get used to this, and it only takes a plug or two, it's really very easy to gap these plugs.
And no matter what, I will *never* just run an out of the box gap without checking it very carefully.
Hope that helps!
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,734
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From: Nor-Cal,USA
I myself actually have a gauge that has a hole in it that allows you to put the the plug electrode not the inner tip onto it then you just gently apply pressure and it bends the tip.
Richard D.
Richard D.
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Mike,
As always, I appreciate the tips! As you may have guessed, I broke the tip while gapping the plug by accidentally hitting the tip while "prying" the electrode. My friend has the same tool that Richard mentioned but he didn't bring that over until after I broke the tip on one of the plugs. Such is life and you live and learn.
Thanks again guys!
Nvr Enuff
As always, I appreciate the tips! As you may have guessed, I broke the tip while gapping the plug by accidentally hitting the tip while "prying" the electrode. My friend has the same tool that Richard mentioned but he didn't bring that over until after I broke the tip on one of the plugs. Such is life and you live and learn.
Thanks again guys!
Nvr Enuff
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Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi Richard & Nvr,
Yeah, there are all kinds of gapping tools out there, and whatever works is fine.
I have to confess to being a bit of a hard-head, so I use the oldest & simplest. It's all a matter of what you get used to and are comfortable working with, I guess.
For me, I just use a standard good quality feeler gauge & then another older kind of feeler gauge with the spark plug gapping "notch" for the ground electrode on the side, of which I only use that notch. I worry about not getting proper gaps with various gapping "tools," at least, the very few I've played with I haven't liked the results. But of course this comes from working on so many high-boost forced induction motors where gaps are much more critical, where .001-.002 variance can make the difference between firing cleanly and having spark blowout in high humidity.
I did use a simple (and fun, actually) tool with a "sliding ramp" on it (a graduated gapping tool, basically) when we did the 2003 Lightning R&D back in Feb., & on the *surface*, it seemed like a nice quick tool, and was fun to use once I got used to it. But when the gap was rechecked using a standard feeler gauge later on when the plugs were removed, the plug gaps were consistently off by precisely .004, they should have been .040 and ended up at .036.
So I guess I may just not be very good with newer and/or different gapping tools, & need to stick to my older non-trick stuff that I'm used to & can seem to manage properly.
Glad you guys are getting good results with the gapping tools you're using!
Yeah, there are all kinds of gapping tools out there, and whatever works is fine.
I have to confess to being a bit of a hard-head, so I use the oldest & simplest. It's all a matter of what you get used to and are comfortable working with, I guess.
For me, I just use a standard good quality feeler gauge & then another older kind of feeler gauge with the spark plug gapping "notch" for the ground electrode on the side, of which I only use that notch. I worry about not getting proper gaps with various gapping "tools," at least, the very few I've played with I haven't liked the results. But of course this comes from working on so many high-boost forced induction motors where gaps are much more critical, where .001-.002 variance can make the difference between firing cleanly and having spark blowout in high humidity.
I did use a simple (and fun, actually) tool with a "sliding ramp" on it (a graduated gapping tool, basically) when we did the 2003 Lightning R&D back in Feb., & on the *surface*, it seemed like a nice quick tool, and was fun to use once I got used to it. But when the gap was rechecked using a standard feeler gauge later on when the plugs were removed, the plug gaps were consistently off by precisely .004, they should have been .040 and ended up at .036.
So I guess I may just not be very good with newer and/or different gapping tools, & need to stick to my older non-trick stuff that I'm used to & can seem to manage properly.
Glad you guys are getting good results with the gapping tools you're using!