SuperChips and knocking
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Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 58
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From: Ottawa, Canada
SuperChips and knocking
Hello everyone,
I borrowed my friend's SuperChips programmer (uninstalled it from his truck) and installed it on mine for a few weeks. When I step on the gas pedal from 0 MPH, the engine knocks for about 1 second. If I start gently for 1 second and then step on it, everything is fine. Does anybody have the same problem? Before buying one for my truck, I would like to ensure everything will be fine.
Thanks,
SC
I borrowed my friend's SuperChips programmer (uninstalled it from his truck) and installed it on mine for a few weeks. When I step on the gas pedal from 0 MPH, the engine knocks for about 1 second. If I start gently for 1 second and then step on it, everything is fine. Does anybody have the same problem? Before buying one for my truck, I would like to ensure everything will be fine.
Thanks,
SC
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi SC,
The Micro Tuner will *not* cause detonation in any vehicle that is in proper mechancal condition and that is running the required high quality premium gasoline.
Most likely you didn't have the required premium gasoline in the tank *before* you installed it, which will cause detonation and power loss, from the knock sensor causing the PCM to pull as much timing, which defeats the purpose of using performance tuning.
Performance tuning *requires* premium gasoline, and none of the cheap stuff, no off-brands or no-names, and no Exxon, either, as all those fuels will have significantly lower energy content (# of BTU's per gallon), thus causing things like detonation, less performance & lower fuel mileage.
As you can very quickly see here in this section of the message boards where there are years of posts and many Micro Tuner owners, reviewing those posts will show that there is absolutely no patttern of any such problems among Micro Tuner owners.
The Micro Tuner will *not* cause detonation in any vehicle that is in proper mechancal condition and that is running the required high quality premium gasoline.
Most likely you didn't have the required premium gasoline in the tank *before* you installed it, which will cause detonation and power loss, from the knock sensor causing the PCM to pull as much timing, which defeats the purpose of using performance tuning.
Performance tuning *requires* premium gasoline, and none of the cheap stuff, no off-brands or no-names, and no Exxon, either, as all those fuels will have significantly lower energy content (# of BTU's per gallon), thus causing things like detonation, less performance & lower fuel mileage.
As you can very quickly see here in this section of the message boards where there are years of posts and many Micro Tuner owners, reviewing those posts will show that there is absolutely no patttern of any such problems among Micro Tuner owners.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 58
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Thanks Mike. What I am wondering is if the knoking is caused by the gas, how many tanks fillup should it take to completely flush out the 87 octane gas? (I filled up with 91 octane twice when it was at 1/4)
Otherwise, could there be a problem with my engine? It has only 20,000miles. Your help is much apreciated,
SC
Otherwise, could there be a problem with my engine? It has only 20,000miles. Your help is much apreciated,
SC
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: McRae, AR
My truck does the same thing.
2002 F150 SuperCrew 4.6L Eng Code TFB1
It is not the gas. I've been running Texaco/Shell 93 since I installed my Diablo Chip in October. Recently switched from Diablo Chip to a MicroTuner and still have the "knock".
From dead stop at idle, romp the gas, depending on traction, wheels break loose and spin or engine lugs a little and I hear a quick knocking sound.
The way around this is to power brake to about 1300 RPM's prior to launch or ease onto it a little and then go full throttle.
This is the only time this happens and happens whether the truck is hot or cold.
2002 F150 SuperCrew 4.6L Eng Code TFB1
It is not the gas. I've been running Texaco/Shell 93 since I installed my Diablo Chip in October. Recently switched from Diablo Chip to a MicroTuner and still have the "knock".
From dead stop at idle, romp the gas, depending on traction, wheels break loose and spin or engine lugs a little and I hear a quick knocking sound.
The way around this is to power brake to about 1300 RPM's prior to launch or ease onto it a little and then go full throttle.
This is the only time this happens and happens whether the truck is hot or cold.
Last edited by 02Crewman; Mar 14, 2003 at 10:20 AM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Canada
Hi O2Crewman,
I would like to hear what Mike have to say about that. There must be somekind of different solution than to powerbrake to get rid of this knocking. My friend has the exact same truck and he has absolutely no knocking. Run same gas, approx. same mileage. I definetly hope it's not the engine.
I would like to hear what Mike have to say about that. There must be somekind of different solution than to powerbrake to get rid of this knocking. My friend has the exact same truck and he has absolutely no knocking. Run same gas, approx. same mileage. I definetly hope it's not the engine.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Fellas,
What I can tell you is that to date, our of *all* the people that have ordered Micro Tuners from us, we have had 2 reports of detonation that I can recall where the best local premium gasoline was actually being used, and those were both still an obvious issue of fuel quality. Superchips adjusted the program to the local fuel quality for them, and that same thing will be done for anyone else who has purchased the Micro Tuner and is having detonation using their best quality local pump premium gasolines. Which happens about every 12th of never.
Remember, in gasoline, the octane may be there, but the energy content may not be, and you can still get detonation on 93 octane fuel if the energy content is not sufficient. Octane alone is *not* fuel quality, and having 93 octane is no guarantee against detonation; *quality* premium fuels must be used, that means no offbrands, no no-names, and no Exxon, either, those are all low energy fuels that will generally cause less performance gain and an obvious decline in fuel mileage, all due to a lower energy content (BTU's per gallon).
We know what these engines require in terms of their state of tune, in fact, nobody knows that better than we do, and the only variables are poor fuel quality and/or vehicle condition, both of which we have absolutely no control over. As we can clearly see here on the boards, there is no pattern of detonation. There are only extremely few isolated cases, virtually all of which are fuel quality issues.
Anyone getting detonation with a Micro Tuner installed simply is not using the required fuel quality, or there is indeed something wrong with the vehicle, new or otherwise. There is no 3rd option, each and every vehicle is tuned according to it's exact PCM software revision, meaning it's vehicle-specific tuning (the Micro Tuner has somewhere between 1000-1200 programs), and we know exactly what is and isn't safe with any good quality pump premium of 91 thru 94 octane.
OK, so then, what do we do if we *DO* have a situation where a vehicle owner has a Micro Tuner, and he or she is using the best premium gasolines in his/her area, but is getting some pinging? And I don't mean a quick coupla-few individual knocks on initial acceleration, that is perfectly normal and shows the tuning is right there with the fuel quality. I'm talking about *detonation*, pinging that doesn't stop, pinging that is persistent and stops only when you take your foot out of the throttle. An important question to be sure, and should that happen, all that is required is to follow the instructions and call Superchips directly at the phone number listed in the installation manual that comes with the Micro Tuner. If needed, Superchips will issue an RMA to send that Micro Tuner in under for program changes to make it compatible with your local fuel quality.
The bottom line is, should anyone purchase a Micro Tuner and have detonation on their best quality premium fuel, all they need to do is to contact Superchips, who will make the program changes to tune it to your local fuel quality.
Some quick tips about fuel quality............
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you're using 93 octane, or just because you're going to the same station, etc. that the fuel quality is going to remain consistent, it's *not.* My traditional favorite for years was Texaco, between their detergent additives, overall formulation and performance and mileage, Texaco had been doing a *great* job for years. Not any more in this area! The same station I had been going to, I went and got my normal fillup and within 50-100 miles, detonation started. At first, I thought they had a mistake in filling *their* tanks, and maybe I got some 89 octane in the tank........ No dice, they changed the formulation, and we went so far as to remoce the spark plugs, put in a new set, go run 2 more tanks of our favorite Texaco from my regular station and then pull the plugs again....... low & behold, now we were getting some red staining on the insulators, where there was none previously, dramatically showing an obvious change in formulation, and of course most times you won't see something that blatantly obvious on the plugs in fuel formulation changes, usually you just hear the pinging start and see the mileage drop as well. But we sure did, and so we had to change back over to Citgo, which is doing the best job **in our area**. No more red stains, no more detonation, etc.
The bottom line is, Superchips isn't going to let anyone be stuck with having a problem of detonation when using the Micro Tuner, so should detonation be a problem in a particular vehicle with a Micro Tuner, Supechips will work with the owner to get that taken care of via adjustmetns to the program.
And by the way, powerbraking is *NOT* going to make any difference in detonation, nor is powerbraking one of these heavy trucks a smart thing to do, nor will it help your performance. All powerbraking does in these heavy trucks is to slow them down by putting *tremendous* heat into the transmission very quickly, in just a couple of seconds you will put a *lot* of additional heat into the tranny from that forced slippage, as it's a viscous (fluid) coupling. Now there *can* be throttle tip-in detonation as opposed to heavy throttle detonation, those are 2 separate things (areas), and someone getting throttle tip-in detonation may think that them powerbraking it is having an effect because they don't hear pinging anymore. Easy to see why. But it's not, at least, not *directly*. *Indirectly*, by virtue of the fact that you're no longer leaving at throttle tip-in, but instead at heavy throttle, in *that* kind of scenario, that could make someone feel convinced that powerbraking it stops their detonation, but that's only masking the symptom, in reality. Just food for thought..........but please, don't powerbrake that truck, that only hurts the tranny and performance. I've got the best converter money can buy, rated at 2400 and it will stall to almost 3000 rpm at my power levels..........leaving at anything more than idle just slows that truck down, I've tried leaving at everything from 1000 rpm thru just under 3000 rpm, and nailing it from idle always gets the lowest 60' times, the quickest 1/4 mile ET's & best trap speeds. Leave by punching it from idle so the converter will "flash" and get you a bit more stall and a slightly harder lanuch, with quicker ET's Leave the powerbraking for the drag race vehicles with transmission brakes.
Ok, one last point to Silver..........*never* fill up with premium when you have 1/4 tank of 87 octane left, as it will take you many tanks of gas to get all the low-octane crappola pushed all out of the system, because you're constantly diluting the incoming premium, over and over again. It takes forever to work up to full octane like that, so that's never the way to do it. The way to do it is to let your current tank of fuel run all the way down, **at least** until the low fuel light comes on, at which point you still have at least 3.5 gallons left in the system. So when the low fuel light comes on, *then* fill it up with premium, and *then* install the Superchips tuning.
The bottom line is, you *gotta* get that 87 octane out of there, and there's only 1 way to do that, run it out. In this case, by running it down at least until the low fuel light comes on before filling up with premium, and within about 3-4 tanks you will have the majority of the 87 octane out of there, and shouldn't have any pinging.
What I can tell you is that to date, our of *all* the people that have ordered Micro Tuners from us, we have had 2 reports of detonation that I can recall where the best local premium gasoline was actually being used, and those were both still an obvious issue of fuel quality. Superchips adjusted the program to the local fuel quality for them, and that same thing will be done for anyone else who has purchased the Micro Tuner and is having detonation using their best quality local pump premium gasolines. Which happens about every 12th of never.
Remember, in gasoline, the octane may be there, but the energy content may not be, and you can still get detonation on 93 octane fuel if the energy content is not sufficient. Octane alone is *not* fuel quality, and having 93 octane is no guarantee against detonation; *quality* premium fuels must be used, that means no offbrands, no no-names, and no Exxon, either, those are all low energy fuels that will generally cause less performance gain and an obvious decline in fuel mileage, all due to a lower energy content (BTU's per gallon).
We know what these engines require in terms of their state of tune, in fact, nobody knows that better than we do, and the only variables are poor fuel quality and/or vehicle condition, both of which we have absolutely no control over. As we can clearly see here on the boards, there is no pattern of detonation. There are only extremely few isolated cases, virtually all of which are fuel quality issues.
Anyone getting detonation with a Micro Tuner installed simply is not using the required fuel quality, or there is indeed something wrong with the vehicle, new or otherwise. There is no 3rd option, each and every vehicle is tuned according to it's exact PCM software revision, meaning it's vehicle-specific tuning (the Micro Tuner has somewhere between 1000-1200 programs), and we know exactly what is and isn't safe with any good quality pump premium of 91 thru 94 octane.
OK, so then, what do we do if we *DO* have a situation where a vehicle owner has a Micro Tuner, and he or she is using the best premium gasolines in his/her area, but is getting some pinging? And I don't mean a quick coupla-few individual knocks on initial acceleration, that is perfectly normal and shows the tuning is right there with the fuel quality. I'm talking about *detonation*, pinging that doesn't stop, pinging that is persistent and stops only when you take your foot out of the throttle. An important question to be sure, and should that happen, all that is required is to follow the instructions and call Superchips directly at the phone number listed in the installation manual that comes with the Micro Tuner. If needed, Superchips will issue an RMA to send that Micro Tuner in under for program changes to make it compatible with your local fuel quality.
The bottom line is, should anyone purchase a Micro Tuner and have detonation on their best quality premium fuel, all they need to do is to contact Superchips, who will make the program changes to tune it to your local fuel quality.
Some quick tips about fuel quality............
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you're using 93 octane, or just because you're going to the same station, etc. that the fuel quality is going to remain consistent, it's *not.* My traditional favorite for years was Texaco, between their detergent additives, overall formulation and performance and mileage, Texaco had been doing a *great* job for years. Not any more in this area! The same station I had been going to, I went and got my normal fillup and within 50-100 miles, detonation started. At first, I thought they had a mistake in filling *their* tanks, and maybe I got some 89 octane in the tank........ No dice, they changed the formulation, and we went so far as to remoce the spark plugs, put in a new set, go run 2 more tanks of our favorite Texaco from my regular station and then pull the plugs again....... low & behold, now we were getting some red staining on the insulators, where there was none previously, dramatically showing an obvious change in formulation, and of course most times you won't see something that blatantly obvious on the plugs in fuel formulation changes, usually you just hear the pinging start and see the mileage drop as well. But we sure did, and so we had to change back over to Citgo, which is doing the best job **in our area**. No more red stains, no more detonation, etc.
The bottom line is, Superchips isn't going to let anyone be stuck with having a problem of detonation when using the Micro Tuner, so should detonation be a problem in a particular vehicle with a Micro Tuner, Supechips will work with the owner to get that taken care of via adjustmetns to the program.
And by the way, powerbraking is *NOT* going to make any difference in detonation, nor is powerbraking one of these heavy trucks a smart thing to do, nor will it help your performance. All powerbraking does in these heavy trucks is to slow them down by putting *tremendous* heat into the transmission very quickly, in just a couple of seconds you will put a *lot* of additional heat into the tranny from that forced slippage, as it's a viscous (fluid) coupling. Now there *can* be throttle tip-in detonation as opposed to heavy throttle detonation, those are 2 separate things (areas), and someone getting throttle tip-in detonation may think that them powerbraking it is having an effect because they don't hear pinging anymore. Easy to see why. But it's not, at least, not *directly*. *Indirectly*, by virtue of the fact that you're no longer leaving at throttle tip-in, but instead at heavy throttle, in *that* kind of scenario, that could make someone feel convinced that powerbraking it stops their detonation, but that's only masking the symptom, in reality. Just food for thought..........but please, don't powerbrake that truck, that only hurts the tranny and performance. I've got the best converter money can buy, rated at 2400 and it will stall to almost 3000 rpm at my power levels..........leaving at anything more than idle just slows that truck down, I've tried leaving at everything from 1000 rpm thru just under 3000 rpm, and nailing it from idle always gets the lowest 60' times, the quickest 1/4 mile ET's & best trap speeds. Leave by punching it from idle so the converter will "flash" and get you a bit more stall and a slightly harder lanuch, with quicker ET's Leave the powerbraking for the drag race vehicles with transmission brakes.
Ok, one last point to Silver..........*never* fill up with premium when you have 1/4 tank of 87 octane left, as it will take you many tanks of gas to get all the low-octane crappola pushed all out of the system, because you're constantly diluting the incoming premium, over and over again. It takes forever to work up to full octane like that, so that's never the way to do it. The way to do it is to let your current tank of fuel run all the way down, **at least** until the low fuel light comes on, at which point you still have at least 3.5 gallons left in the system. So when the low fuel light comes on, *then* fill it up with premium, and *then* install the Superchips tuning.
The bottom line is, you *gotta* get that 87 octane out of there, and there's only 1 way to do that, run it out. In this case, by running it down at least until the low fuel light comes on before filling up with premium, and within about 3-4 tanks you will have the majority of the 87 octane out of there, and shouldn't have any pinging.
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Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 58
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Thanks Mike for your help. I will order my Power Tuner tomorrow and get rid of the 87 octane as you prescribed.
Can I add that I rarely seen any company back their product as well as you guys do.
Thanks again.,
SC
Can I add that I rarely seen any company back their product as well as you guys do.
Thanks again.,
SC