Detailing Sticky
 

No, dont jump the gun, V2 is not yet out, but in order to alleviate the mass emails and to help protect you from Spammers (because the old way had you posting your email on a public forum), glc and myself worked it out to where you only have to click the link below in order to see the entire thing in .pdf format.

RP-- if you could please sticky this? Thanks!

FOR THE DETAILING GUIDE (Written by myself, made into this format by glc, edited versions coming soon, edited by RP, RR, and others):

Click Here

I think you should mention that you use mainly Megs products. The terminology used will vary between companies, this gets really confusing sometimes.

Also, paint doesnt have any "oils" that need to be replenished.

You mentioned synthetic waxes and Carnauba, but you didnt mention anything about pure sealants. Synthetic waxes are a mix between Carnaubas and pure sealants.

Examples...
Pinnacle Signature Series II- Carnauba
1Z Einszett Glanz Wax- Synthetic Wax
Zaino- Pure sealant

For the QD's, you might want to talk about some with anti- static properties. Same goes for interior dressings.

Dressings- I dont see any mention of silicons

Glass cleaners- might want to talk about ones with ammonia in it.

Be extremely careful with APC's. Some can have certain acids in it which can be bad for chrome, aluminum, etc.

Leather Cleaners- might want to talk about what pH is safe for leather, stuff should be water based, solvent free, and not alkaline.

Metal polish- might want to discuss how to tell if your metal is clear coated or not. And what to do in either situation.

Wet sanding- I probably wouldnt even cover this at all, nor attempt doing it without a paint gauge. If you havent developed an eye for paint, then you might not know if it has been wet sanded, heavily compounded, or repainted before. All of these factors come into play when wet sanding. Not to even mention proper technique, grits, etc., etc.

Washing- You should start with the wheel wells, tires, rims first. Dont even wet the paint at this time. Once you finish the wheels, etc., then move onto the paint.

Wheels- using acid on rims isnt very smart. It should be the absolute last method used to clean a rim, if even used at all. Imagine replacing a customers benz, porsche, BMW, wheels because you used acid on them. Not ever smart. Start with least aggressive method possible and know your chemicals.

Claying- might want to discuss the different grades of clay and when to use them.

Im not going to even begin to talk about compounding and polishing. But I will say that polishing by hand is pointless. The amount of correction you can do by hand is so minimal, its not worth the work.

Not all LSP's can by layed. Some have cleaners in them and will remove the previous layer. Again, this comes down to knowing your chemicals and how to properly use them.

Not all tire dressings sling.

Too much moisture can ruin leather.

...hmmm...there is some stuff I disagree with, but in any case, I am not editing the document. I have too many other projects (ie: I am writing a book right now, and I have a deadline...) that will prevent me from working on the sticky... RP is editing it, and has made a LOT of additions/changes/deletions. Plus, there are a few others additng to it.

BTW-- for those of you who dont know me, I use Megs products mostly due to cost and ease of use. I am VERY familiar with their lineup, and there is PLENTY of help here on their lineup. I LOVE Poorboys, but it is too pricey. As for the other brands out there (Menzerna, etc), I dont have the funds nor the time to order that stuff to try it out. Since I am happy with the products I use now, why change? Not that I fear other stuff, but I cant afford it... (Anybody wanna donate to a learning fund for me?:devil:)

For the open ended stuff:

QD: PolySlick #425 is fantastic (or so I hear. Never used it. Cant afford to have that AND the other 4 QDs I have)

Interior: Get Megs QID as far as I am concerned. I have had GREAT results with this stuff. Everybody I know LOVES it.

Dressings: Get water based, not solvent based. No silicone. IMO, Hyperdressing is the best stuff on the market.

Glass cleaners: avoid ammonia ESPECIALLY if you have aftermarket tint (turns it purple). IMO, stoner's Invisible Glass is the way to go. safe for all windows, works like a charm, no complaints whatsoever.

APC's: Search on here for it. There is WAY too much for me to type on this topic in one reply. Heck, that would easily make 2-3 pages... RP can do that.

Leather: To be honest, I am by NO MEANS an expert on leather-- I have worked on it 2x. Once on a Lariat and once on a BMW. Search around for that stuff. And whoever writes that section needs to email me with their info because I could REALLY use it sometime... So, do a search. (I definately will before another leather interior...)

Metal polish: there are a couple of really good threads about this now... Check those out if you need the info for now. Basically, do the S-X test to determine if cleared. If cleared, treat EXACTLY LIKE PAINT. If not, use something like NXT all metal Polish, Heavy Metal Polish, Hot Rims mag/Aluminium polish, brasso, etc... I have cleared rims, so I dont mess with it. I just use the mag/aluminium polish for my toolbox...I got it for free (product testing), so no complaints...

Washing: I wrote the sticky before I heard your theory on this, and I 100% AGREE with your method (I switched after that email). I just havent been able to revise the text.

Wheels: Agreed. I start with a grunge wash mitt and wash water. If that doesnt work, SG at a 1:1 with water. If that doesnt work, straight SG. If that doesnt work, I go for a sweet rim cleaner that works wonders (but I rarely use for fear of not knowing what chemical it is-- Dupont Teflon Wheel Cleaner). If that fails...I call the customer. BTW-- after SG straight, I go for an old chunk of clay.

Clay: Go for an explanation. I need to get my uniforms ready for tomorrow.

As for the last couple of paragraphs, I read them, but I dont have any more time, and my computer battery is dying. I will respond later, maybe...

Sorry, wasnt trying to be mean, hope you didnt take it that way. Just trying to help, oh well.

Concured. The sticky does, primarily, talk about Meguiar's products. My edit has a few tweaks and mentions several other brands -- I'm just having trouble getting it out.

Actually - according to the 'major paint company' representative that sat with us in the Meguiar's 3-day advanced class; it does. Also, remember that acetone, MEK, and oodles of other paint components are petrochemicals. Something has to keep the clear pliable and non-brittle.

Interpretation and terminology. Sealant and Synthetic often go hand in hand with exactly the same meaning within the detailing realm.

Great point.

...another great point.

Is in my edit. I thought of that too.

Again, in my edits.

See leather cleaners comment.

Concured. For a 'basic' 'how-to' document, wet sanding should be snubbed and is in my edit.

Disagreed. Top to bottom, IMO, is the best route. I will clean a tire to start (because of chemical nature) and *will* wet the entire vehicle before spraying a tire cleaner (simple g).

Yep. Basic How-To... this one was edited out of my version as well.

Again, going for 'basic', I don't think I want to discuss aggressive. As we know, it can cause some damage that one may have to go back and work on at the end. I think we should stick with mild as the option.

Disagreed. I've seen some pretty impressive work by hand. Mind you, the guy(s) had arms the size of cannons afterwards.

Agreed. Discussed in my edit.

Should caveot this with "If over applied..."

True but, to be realistic, I don't think anyone is going to submerge ones' seats.

I promise to try to get off of my but and tweak my copy soon. Work is simply kicking my butt -- hence the reason I'm up at 130 am -- yes, I'm working.

If I may interject a n00bs opinion here...

I've read almost every post in this C&D Forum, and I am still a little lost. Granted, I probably glazed over a lot of it due to the voluminous amount of abbreviations (and products), but I have picked up on a great deal.

"I detailed the truck today. Started off with 2 passes of #80, then #9, then 7 coats of #21..." This sentence provides the apprentice detailer with very little information.

What is #80? Who makes it? What does it do?
Same with #9 and #21

Now I have to take a #2. (See how it all sounds the same?)

It may help to break the sticky into a few sections.

Freshman
Sophomore
Junior
Senior

Then, break out into the ultra-detailing solutions that are available to those with the know-how and the funds. (College)

Not to mention, seperate the Interior and Exterior. Seperate Paint and everything else on the exterior of the vehicle... rubber, plastic, glass, etc...

As a multi-daily reader of this forum, I propose the Freshman course should consist of...

Proper Washing Techniques
Two Bucket. What if I only have one?

Proper Rinsing Techniques
(not sure of the terminology here...) 3/4 hose flow method opposed to air-dry? This leads to...

Proper Drying Techniques
Chamois, shammy, and sandpaper are all the same thing. Why?

Clay. What is It, and How Do I Do It?
(sub) and what is this Quick Detail stuff?

Fix the Minor Scratches? If so, How?
(sub) Scratch-X and DA text goes here.
(sub) Is this the Polishing step? If so, what products to use, why, and where do I get them?

Microfiber Towels:
What is wrong with using the bath towels and wash rags that I've been wiping my bum with for the last 6 years?

Sealant. Why? I've heard of it, but not sure what it means. Quick list of Manufacturers and the FULL name of the product.
PBSS43-Meg#834-Optxxx means nothing to me or the general n00b. What is it, where can I get it?

Synthetic Wax... What is it? What do you recommend and why? Where can I get it?

Carnuba Wax... What is it? I just applied Synthetic Wax? Do I really need this? What do you recommend and where can I get it?

Quick Detailing... The wind blew and now my truck is dusty. Can I use a Quick Detail product to remove the dust? My wife drove my truck through a mud puddle, can I Quick Detail it? My son took the truck 4-wheeling through the African rain forest? Can I Quick Detail it?

Lol, and why the hell does Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Detailer smear so damn much on top of Carnuba Wax?!

Again, as a young 'un, I present these questions as a possible way to format a proposed Freshman course of Detailing. I can't even keep my tires clean, so I'll leave the proposed Sophomore course up to others.

RP, when you get it all edited, send it to me and I'll get it posted right away. Ryan has my e-mail addy. I need Word 97-03 format or RTF, please. I have the PDF converter. If you want to add pics, I can do that too.

You sir, are a saint. :bows:

Gotta keep on these OCDs' asses :lol:

:beers:
****

RockPick, the oil in paint thing I feel is pretty controversal. There are a lot of different opinions out there.

People do use synthetic wax and sealant interchangably, however, they are two different things. I think they are used interchangably because many people dont realize theres a difference. Here is a good read, http://audizine.com/forum/showpost.p...29&postcount=3

The reason I thought you should discuss the different grades of clay is exactly for the reason you mentioned. Tell people to use a less aggressive clay such as Pinnalce Poly, Sonus Green (which isnt made anymore), Mothers, Swissvax, etc. Say more aggressive clays, Clay Magic red, Megs Red, etc.

Here is a good video on how to wash a car, http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

The guy who polished by hand, what did he use and did he do an ISO wipe down after?

No offense taken-- I was short on time last night.

Sleepy Max-- I definately understand what you mean-- in fact, what you described is what I had in mind for it to look like. Unfortunately, I dont have the time to revamp the whole thing. I figure I did my part by putting the majority of the basics all in one place. The others (RP, Gip, RR, etc) can reorganize it and revise it so as to make it more user friendly. Basically, it will be a LOT easier for them now that the first part is done. This way, the load is shared...

03gtmustang-- There are a few things I disagree with, namely the polishig by hand and the oils thing... As for polishing by hand, look at my Xterra detail-- notice the looks... It is possible, but NOT fun... As for the oils, HOW can you possibly argue with what the MFG's say? They are, after all, the chamical engineers who designed your clearcoat. I believe they know what they are talking about. (Hence why I disagree with the alcohol wipedown after polishing, but this is another topic for another day) Anyway, here are my thoughts: Present both ideas. Let the user decide. Great results have been achieved with both...

Anyway, I ramble, so I am out.

I wasnt arguing with what the MFG's say. I wasnt presented with that info when I disagreed. Im on the fence about it and will continue researching it. However, I do wish you guys had more technical info about the subject.

Here is some info I have.

"Water-based paints contain some oils that are used for paint surface lubrication.Once they have done what they were intended for there is no need to replace them. (paint cannot eat, therefore it doesn't need 'feeding') despite what Zymol marketing would have you believe.

The older solvent-based paints contained a % of oils and replacement was required to avoid the resin drying out, these paints also required a time for the solvents to outgas (so called - paints requirement to 'breath')" TOGWT

Mine does. It eats Nattys Blue anfd washes it down with #34 :lol:

j/k.

Anyway, I vote present both ideas and let the user decide. It seems there is a 50-50 on this subject, and either way, you can achieve great results, as you have proven with your methods and we have proven with ours (well, I say you, but I mean you and those whom you quote and learn from yourself...).

anyway, I would say its a dead horse. Or if not, its at least a situation in which neither party will budge. Truce?:wave:

Im not arguing with you guys, and I will most definitely change my methods if technical information is provided. Thats what makes a good detailer, you must to research and keep up with technology and changing ways. Im just here to learn and discover, not argue. We can start a new thread, or take it to PM if you'd prefer.

We know that. We're here for the same reasons.

BTW, the term 'feeding' is figurative. Obviously, it's not going out for a McRib and Hi-C Orange drink... :lol:

Leather isn't 'alive' either but, you'll commonly hear conditioning of fine leathers referred to as 'feeding'. Heck, Connolly Hide Food even keys in on the term with their product name -- which, by the way, is a FANTASTIC product that has been around for quite a while and is HIGHLY respected within the Concours world.

Maybe we should leave this post alone and allow it to stand alone with the notion of being a form of information distribution rather than a debate (friendly, of course) of sorts...

[QUOTE=SleepyMax]
I know what you mean Max. I've been a detailing fanatic for probably three years now, and I can still get lost in the alphabet soup and the deluge of the numbers.

ISP, APC, LSP, LMNOP, QRSTUV, WXY and Z.

.........and #80, #83, #9, topped off with #21, whipped cream, and a cherry.

I don't like numbers. If I did, I'd be an accountant.


Then get another.

..........whatever it takes to fully rinse the wash medium off?

Don't sell yourself short. I mean really, there are simply some things we should just know.

The best way, in my opinion, is to blow dry with either a leaf blower, which I use, or compressed air. You can get a cheap leaf blower to use just for this purpose for around $30. It ain't gonna do much else, but it will dry the vehicle, and it beats the hell out of doing it by hand.

I sense your frustration in that it is driving you to be a little too critical. If you truly read regularly, and have used the forum search, then it should have been revealed to you what the aforementioned products are and how to use them.

.......because they've been around your bum. Seriously, ONLY microfiber towels and rags should be used in any part of the detailing process. Not only are they safer on finishes, they simply perform better. In fact, only moderately dirty windows, for example, can often be cleaned with a microfiber alone with no window cleaner. The cheapies are available at Wallymart and, if that's all you can get, they're a hundred times better than anything else out there.

A true sealant is nothing for a noob. Meguiar's NXT Synthetic Wax on top of a well prepared finish will seal to some degree. That should be followed by a good Carnauba, like the Meg's #21 you see referenced often.