04-08 4.6 to 5.4 3v swap notes?
 

i cant find notes or any type of guide/write-up on this anywhere. theres so much vague information all over a variety forums, many of the notes i find are for the 1997-2003 model years. sometimes when i think ive found some reliable info, i find out 5 pages later that its for the 07-03 models and i wasted my time reading it. i've searched this forum to the best of my abilities and cant seem to find the information.

my main plan is to do the homework on swapping a 5.4 3v in place of my 4.6 so heres some specs on my truck

- 2005 f-150 ext cab 2wd
- 4r70e transmission with transgo kit (and whatever TC should be mated to this when stock)
- 8.8 rear end (3.55 i know, horrible.)


my dad owned a 2007 f150 with a 5.4 a few years ago. much of the engine is the same from what i remember but obviously there will be differences. any help in my quest for information/notes is appreciated. i apologies if there is a thread that is easily found on this subject, i truly have been doing my best with searching but have come up empty. thank you! :bows:

Why not 2v 5.4 like me?
 

With the 3v 5.4 I think you will need whole wiring harness/computer. Possibly transmission or at least a custom tune to run the 4r70e, as the it has different output sensor speed. Whole engine with accessories. I.e. Both manifolds, injectors, plugs, coils, TB, egr, sensors, water pump etc

The 2 valve dosnt have the cam phasers or 2 piece spark plug issues and only has -15tq. I was able to get a reman 03 2v 5.4 short block and bolt EVERYTHING over. Just make sure the TB bolts to the plastic 2v IM. You will prolly have a check engine light on as the 5.4 manifold dosnt have the variable intake Flap. I used the 4.6 IM with adapter plates and had to modify a lot of stuff. Like a hole in the firewall. Also you will need to use a remote oil filter.

Good luck on your build!

thanks for the load of info! if im correct, the 5.4 comes with a 4r75, right? it just seems to me that the 3v would be an easier swap as i wont need to modify the things you listed. it seems like a lot of trouble when i read it in text, but im sure its not so bad. also, i've dealt with the plug issues on my dads old 5.4, we have the extractor tool so i suppose if i install new plugs when i install the engine, i should be good to go for a little while and not need to worry for a decent length of time. we also had the cam phasers go out on that 5.4, the dealer warrantied it even after it was 20 miles past warranty because we have bought 8 cars from that single dealer. is there a permanent phaser fix or will they always go out within time? looking forward to any extra info that people can provide!

Correct the 4r75e. Not a big deal but you would need a SCT programmer and competent tuner like Justin or VMP that know about the OSS difference. They make cam phaser block outs deletes. They also updated to a one piece spark plug. You maybe able to run your pcm/harness/sensors with a custom tune(bigger injectors), CP delete and COP adapters. Look at 3v swaps mustang guys do. Your smaller 8.8 rear, higher stall TC, and Fuel pump should work fine.

If you just want more power, a custom remote turbo set up would be your best option IMO.

I did a remote setup on a Ranger last year. Was great, but not looking to do that on my f150. The main reason for the swap is the truck is at 200k. I bought it at 170, not too sure how well it was taken care of or how much longer it will go, however it does run healthy. Especially with the bend new tranny I put in it 3k ago! I'm really just trying to get my eggs in a basket so I can do the swap easily when it comes time. Will likely buy the parts in the next few months and swap it on my next 6 month period off.

Remote turbo
 

If the motor has good compression, the miles don't really matter. Prolly burns some oil. No matter. My understanding is even if the motor has low compression the turbo helps by adding pressure effectively upping the compression/ compression ratio.

I still plan on doing a remote setup. Why do not want to?

I'm curious to see how your going to get the 3v/PCM/4r70e working together...

I feel your pain Moving a 2 1/2 ton truck with a mustang motor.

the main reason i dont want to remote turbo is because i dont feel like finding an oil galley to pull oil from, i dont feel like wiring the scavenge pump, i dont feel like fabbing intercooler piping, and i certainly dont feel like building a collector/flange for the turbine inlet or a downpipe for the outlet.

other supporting reasons, i dont want to be running high EGT's for a long period while im towing or driving up a long uphill. in my way home from work is probably a 15 mile very steep grade of highway i drive on. many cars cant go faster than 45 up this section. however if i really give the 4.6 some power, she will do an amazing 65 up it! also not sure if the injectors will supply the fuel, and dont want to run a fuel pressure regulator.

AND lets face it, ill probably run it in the 6-9psi range. for a month. then up it one psi per month till it explodes and i end up with a rod sitting on my lap in the drivers seat

Turbo not that bad.
 

For the oil people put s "t" on the oil temp sensor. Then drain to oil cap.

The pump has like two wires plus the relay from a acc circuit.

People just buy bigger injectors and a tune, varible FPRs are bad. You can get ev6 Raptor 33lb or cobra 39/42lb for cheap. With the stock fuel pump you can make enough power to split the block. A 255lb would be a good idea if you run higher boost.

For the compressor side, just take a "U" bend and cut it in the middle then weld the corresponding flange, a T4.

The turbine side you get pipe to match the outlet and weld the ring on for the locking piece. I forget the name.

The wastegate you can buy it with flange and pipe and weld it on the "U".

For the IC piping, I wanted to use rubber sewer vacuum hose. Never seen this done but looks easy and effective

Rigging the MAF and PCV valve sounds like a PITA.

Even at 7 psi, half a BAR. You should be making close to +150 more power. The equivalent of a 450ci motor. In theory of course. A lot more then the +70hp from the 3v stroker motor.

Given drivability won't be as good and high octane is expensive.
With a proper tune EGTs and reliability would be acceptable . the cost will be over 2k, double what a junk yard build would cost. So I understand your reasoning.

Depending on your outcome I may want to do a 3v swap. Maybe even a 4v:devil:

Good luck on your build, keep us posted!

The PCV is probably the easiest part. Catch cans! I got this truck to replace the 501whp STI I built and tuned myself. I would much rather skip piping intercooler, plumbing oil supply and return, waste gate and lines because who wants an internal gate? External all day! And then you get to worry about the turbo getting damaged while you're driving. Wether from flex, things flying up from tires, etc. Just seems like better piece of mind and funding wise to 3V swap it. Plus if I'm gonna boost, I'm gonna boost that 3V!!!

i'd love to 4V swap but dont want to deal with the wiring and stuff to make it fully operational. i have blueprinted and built many high horse subaru's and am kind of sick of the work envolved. i'd much rather just swap the 3v real easy and gain the 70hp there. im actually putting a motor into a subaru right now but its only able to handle 450wtq. its got forged pistons and a bigger turbo but still wont net anything near 450wtq. maybe in the 340wtq range.

The 4v only has +5tq. Not worth it. Plus trying to get the electric throttle bolted on.
I thought the PCV was more complicated, guess not.
Any good turbo is external gated.
That STI sounds nasty. I had a blown fox. It was fun.

Why not the 2v 5.4? I got a bare short block and made it work. If the TB to IM match it would be a easy swap. It's a solid motor. The hardest part of the swap was getting the starter off the 4.6 fyi

Since your familiar with turbos, does my game plan sound right?
Not many people have done custom turbo builds on these f150s.

I'm planing on getting a Borg Warner 62 or 66.
Have you had any luck with the eBay turbos? Namely the gt45, its a 69mm

I also plan on a 4r75e when the tranny bites the dust.

Maybe you can help me understand why people swap the 2v into the 04-08 models rather than the 3v? They're modular motors and the swap is basically direct with a ECU flash. Not a big deal? But people seem to love the 2v swap. Just unsure why.

Edit: hey don't count out the internal gate! The borg warner EFR turbos use an internal gate option that has unbelievable flow abilities. I would use extrernal because of the heavenly sound though! On a side note, the EFR turbos are unbelievably advanced. They re-invented the turbo. If you haven't seen them yet, check them out!

A 62/66 is a pretty large turbo. Those will net about 600whp in an STI. I believe they flow over 64lb/min of air. That's A LOT (for a street car). I don't usually deal with boosted 6 and 8 cylinder engines but a 62/66 will take a year to spool on a STI. I use antilag for this reason which spools up boost VERY fast but it is very damaging to the valves. It makes extreme exhaust gas temperature so I don't recommend it on the truck. Aside from this, the 62/66) turbos are very large. Meaning a remote mount would take extra work to hide a big ass turbo.

As far as eBay turbos go, I have friends with them and they work. But I will never ever put them into my engines. I run a small time porting and turbo rebuilding business from home and I also help a friend who is a big name in the business. His stuff goes to sema. Neither of us trust eBay parts. There are certain tolerances of compressor wheel and turbine wheel to housing. It's usually 3 thousands or so. If the gap is bigger then it will 'beat up' the air and generate heat on the compressor side of the turbo which is where you don't want it. After this, the turbo becomes very inefficient. However you want heat on the turbine side so don't get it mixed up!

Long story short, I've seen eBay turbos work and work good. I don't trust them and I also custom build my own turbos at a very good wholesale price. So no need for me.

I am the only person that had done a 2v 5.4 . You are probably looking at 97-03 swaps witch they came with stock. My reasoning was I didn't need a new PCM and tranny. I later found out that you can get cam phaser deletes and tune for the 4r70e.

Doing the swap I learned the newer 4.6 and 5.4 blocks moved the power steering pump up to clear ABS system.

I used mustang adapter plates to bolt my intake manifold to the bigger block. I literally bolted EVERYTHING over from the newer 4.6 minus the oil filter mount. The biggest issue was the higher deck height and plus the plates, raised the throttle body INTO the firewall. But that didn't stop me!

Now the2v 5.4 IM might have worked, but it was unknown if my fly by wire TB would bolt up and our IM has computer controlled intake runner. Also the 5.4 utilize a return fuel system where ours do not. That might have been a problem.

Now in your case I would run the 3v with stock PCM/ecu
And harness with the cam phaser deletes and hope the electric throttle body plug plugs in and works

Worst case you get 3v PCM and harness and a SCT/EVO/DIABLO programmer and tune for the 4r70e. Before you get a tuner make sure it has the capabilities to tune for the different Output speed sensor. It is possible to physically change the part on the transmission so a Tune would not be needed but recommended.