WOW! Ford bent you over and shoved the blue oval up your a$$ sideways! Wal-Mart sells the same filter for about $3.50!


About using 5W30 over 5W20,I agree with STEALTH.Why would Ford engineers spend so much money and time on a recommended oil if it were not for a reason?

 

By definition this site is made up of those who think they know more than Ford engineers. If I believed that statement I would have to remove my Edge programmer and Bilstein shocks, and go back to soft shifts rolling turns.

 

That's a whole different topic. We're talking engine oil.

 

Take a look at the data sheets the oil companies provide for their high mileage oils if there is any doubt - thicker oils do tend to reduce oil burning. Its pretty simple logic since less gets past valve guides and rings.

The engines are not delivered after a break-in period. Do a UOA on a new vehicle at the 1st and 2nd oil change, and the metal counts will show there is break-in.

Do you have any data to support this?

 

Turn on your truck at 10 degrees and floor it. Watch what happens. It won't be pretty.

The conclusion is correct, your path to arrive at it there isn't. The oil lasts longer because hot oil boils off fuel dilution and water, both which happen during operation of the engine (which is why oil analysis companies say to take a sample after the vehicle has not only warmed up, but been driven). Not driving it long enough to boil these off can help form acids in the oil which break down not only the additive package, but they wear on the metal as well.

 

Best statement of this thread.

Auto Engineers are regulated by economics and work from proven methods. If something is new to one engine, chances are it has been proven on a different engine prior. Then they migh tweak from there.

Then they test the hell out of it. Where they try to find weakness or patterns. They work by the theory of "its good enough", because to do more it would cost to much. Again the economics.

I can almost guarantee the reason they switched from 5w30 down to 5w20 is based on one of three things.....

1) the cost of the oil was cheaper to them
2) it might have proven 1mpg improvement
3) and if it does 1&2, then "its good enough"

On the other side, I can 100% guarantee you that it didn't happen because they "engineered" the engine to work with that oil.

I worked in the Auto industry and engineers in this field do not have the budgets of more glamorous industries such as NASA.

But then again, I agree with the other posters..... who cares, if 5w20 is readily available cheap, why debate it, just use it. Actually, I use 0w20 Mobil 1 on my truck. The thinner the oil, the better mpg and if mpg is improved, so is HP.

 

Glen nailed it with the engineers. I've talked to so many of them at Ford that I lost count. 3 things are important to them: cost, cost and.... cost. Its one of the reasons they still use a mechanical fan in the F150. The cost of providing a good electrical fan which will survive the abuse a truck may be put through is prohibitive when you talk about the production numbers of the F-150. For instance, fan bearing life if mud gets into the fan, which is a distinct possibility since so many people take them off-road.

Thinner oil is a cheap way to gain a little MPG, as well as other things like keeping the mechanical fan but having the PCM controlling its clutch, DRLs not being standard (I recall GM stating a few years back that DRLs cost about .25 MPG due to the extra load on the alternator). Another area... Ford doesn't have a by-pass valve on the heater core on the F150. It costs money and I guess they figure the engine bay doesn't heat up the core so much that you'll notice it with the AC on. On the Powerstroke, where under hood heat is much higher... they have a by-pass valve (BTW, this is a great mod for the F150, not expensive and will help keep the cab cooler in summer).

I believe cost is a major reason why the 2009+ F150's 5.4 didn't gain much power over the 2004-2008. Only 10 HP. The majority of customers don't look at HP numbers when choosing the 5.4, they only know its better than the 4.6. Overall, I'd bet Ford saves more money by selling the 5.4 with less power than they lose to the competition... the underdogs (Dodge, Toyota, Nissan and GM/Chevy) have to offer more power to entice customers away for those people who primarily look at HP and don't consider the overall capabilities of the trucks.

 

I think I read somewhere that Ford did away with the drivers side grab bar on 09s?

 

Why? Why is engine oil such a different topic?

 

You know full well why.

 

I would agree with that. I'm just saying the thicker oil is not going to reverse the engines tendency to burn oil. It's more of a band-aid than a fix.

I agree metal counts are higher at the 1st and 2nd oil change, but that does not show the lack of any pre delivery break-in period. It shows that the engine continues to experience some break-in during the first 500 -1000 miles. New honing technology does most of the cylinder break-in before the engine is ever started.

To support which statement, that 5w30 is a good oil, or that 5w20 is better? If you want to see the technical data on 5w20 do a search and look for labnerd's comments. He does an excellent job in making that point clear. He works in the field and is fluent on the subject.

 

Good answer!

Because people just argue about it and most of the information is made up as they go along. If not for that, it would be as good a topic as any other.

 

Yep, and there's forums here full of threads about that too.

 

I agree. Excellent point! You only need get on the gas hard enough to cause the rings to seal. Normal driving habits works well, but I suppose that is not the case if you normally like to floor it.

Again, I agree, another excellent point. Both your statement and mine are true, and don't contradict each other. That is why short trips are so damaging to oil. Not only does the blow-by not get burned off, but there is more of it. There is always some amount of blow-by in both a warm and cold engine. It's just a matter of fact that there is more blow-by when the engine is cold.

 

[QUOTE=BlueOvalFitter;3872786]WOW! Ford bent you over and shoved the blue oval up your a$$ sideways! Wal-Mart sells the same filter for about $3.50!


...and you being 'Blue Oval Fitter' would be the one placing it in my a$$ sideways???