I have a 2008 5.4L and I'm aware of the terrible oil pressure issue that leads to cam phaser issues etc. Last April I had this issue and once I got it apart, there was no damage but the chain had obviously jumped a tooth or more. This occurred as I was getting on the highway. I was accelerating up to speed and then let off. It immediately started shaking and had no power. Here's what it looked like when I got it apart. Sorry for the orientation. My theory is that when I let off the accelerator, the oil pressure dropped and allowed the chain guide tensioner to release putting slack in the chain and boom. slip. I replaced the guides, chains, and tensioners but not the phasers.

This has just occurred again yesterday but I haven't taken it apart yet. I'll start in on it tonight.

My question is if this is the same issue, is this related to the poor oil pressure? I was considering replacing the oil pump with a HPHV pump to restore nominal pressure.

Any insight, suggestions, or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

Definitely replace the oil pump. Make sure you are using 5w20 oil.

I think I'd replace the phasers too, but only with the latest OEM parts.

 

Oil pressure is a mechanical response to engine RPM, not the gas feed. I would suggest replacing the oil pump for the insurance that you have a good pump. I'd replace the tensioners too even if they "look" great. For the oil. Here's my "speculation", you probably are having issues with the oil foaming. It can be from a variety of things but unless you have a mechanical engineers degree, the probabilities of you find the cavitation, you're not going to find it. I'd suggest using a dual rated oil. It will have anti-foaming agents in the additive package. It usually will come with a more aggressive detergent package and may help to clear up the issue later. I would be looking at either Motorcraft 10w-30 Diesel rated motor oil or Rotella 10w-30. Another good one would be Delo 10w-30 but it's usually a hard find. I'd say the odds are in your favor it won't happen again following this regimen.
I don't recall seeing how many miles on the current chain and tensioners but they both appear to be varnished pretty good. While not destructive as such, it is an indicator of high internal heat and an oil that's not able to take it. Whatever you're using, it isn't working for your driving style. After several doses of the dual rated oil, I'd recommend the Pennzoil 10w-30 yellow bottle oil. It beats any synthetic out there for heat and it's far cheaper too. Motorcraft filters are among the top rated.

 

Labnerd, Pennzoil is all yellow bottle now, there are 6 different ones. I think you need to specify which exact oil, and why not 5W20, which is recommended by Ford for all 5.4 3 valve engines.

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/latest...w-bottles.html

 

I stopped using 5w20 since the stock pump isn't able to maintain much over 7-8 PSI once the engine is warmed up. Even on a 10 degree F day in winter, the pressure will drop and the cam phasers can't maintain their timing. If I replace the pump with the HPHV pump I might be able to switch back.

 

If it is a cavitation, would that indicate damage somewhere in the system or could that just be a design flaw? Also if that is the case, wouldn't this problem be much more prevalent? I'd think that this issue would happen much more often at least on my truck.

 

Cavitation can come from a gasket or it can come from deposits in the journals. That's 2 of the more common reasons. It can come from a host of places including the oil pump itself or a plugged or limited drainhole in the system. LOTS of different scenarios.
Since you've posted the oil pressure on the engine and why you quit the 5w-20 oils, I would strongly suggest that the High Volume/High Pressure oil pump is probably going to create more problems that it will solve. The issue is how worn the engine is. As an engine wears, the critical path is the main and rod bearings wear first. The rod bearings are the ones that sprays oil on the cylinders for the rings. As the bearings wear pressure falls due to leakage. The amount of oil sprayed on the cylinder walls falls dramatically. At 6-7 lbs of pressure, there's very little if any oil reaching the rings. Wear is going to happen quickly. Restore that oil pressure and you'll most likely end up with one fabulous oil burner that will destroy the cats pretty quick. It's a toss up if it will happen or not but if I were a betting kinda guy, my money would be on an oil burner due to worn ring packs.
The 10w-30 recommendation is because there is no dual rated diesel in 5w-20. I assumed that since this much work has been done on this engine, it likely was a high mileage engine. High mileage engines can benefit from a Xw-30 oil due to restored lubrication at low RPMs. The Pennzoil recommendation follows along the same line- high mileage engine needs a little more viscosity to maintain pressure at low rpms. Add that the Pennzoil 10w-30 has the lowest NOACK and this engine is seeing high internal heat, the Pennzoil 10w-30 would be ideal for this engine. But I'd still use the dual rated oils first for the next 2 changes.

 

@loaper


Sounds to me like you are jumping to conclusions at every intersection. Why were phasers not replaced with the other timing components? How do you know oil pressure sags to 7-8 lbs (is that based on an after mkt gauge?). If guides were replaced - were they broken. Did you remove the pan and clean debris out of the oil pump pickup screen? //IF NOT - @Labnerd probably hit the nail on the head about oil pump cavatation because the pickup screen sits just above the bottom of the belly of the pan. Broken guides do not float, and all debris will ultimately find their way right below the pickup screen! But I don't buy ALL the other oil theories - or see any discoloration. (Although, I do use 5W-30 Full Syn as mine is north of 225k).


Also - in the Video - you are over-reacting to the slack in the lower half of that Bank 2 chain. "WHAT YOUR SEEING" With no oil pressure (KoEO), the chain tensioner is relaxed and the damn little spring inside it is NOT STRONG ENOUGH to extend the tensioner arm & push the slack out of the chain ---- fighting the valve spring resistance placed on certain cam lobes. It must be just past an 'intake stroke' on Bank 2 and the 2 intake valve springs are forcing the cam clockwise, putting all the slack on the bottom side toward the crank sprocket. (Totally NORMAL - although the chain might look a little streached). The Question is - IS THE CHAIN TENSIONER (fully extended) able to push those intake valve springs back down and take ALL the slack out of the chain where the Bottom half is taught?


As for jumping a tooth. I doubt that. When that thing is running and has ANY oil pressure on the Chain Tensioners, that slack should be GONE. You can VERIFY correct chain timing after removing the tone ring. With the Crank dot at 6:00 o'clock - Count EXACTLY 30 chain links BOTH DIRECTIONS - ON BOTH BANKS from the Crank Sprocket Dot (NOT INCLUDING THE LINK STRADDLING THE DOT), UP TO the CAM PHASER Timing Mark. The chain has 61 links. One straddles the crank sprocket dot - then there are 30 counting both directions up to the Phaser timing mark. I will bet it has NOT jumped a link. That would mean your rough idle probably is caused by the Phasers (that need replacing - along with a HV/HP pump and remove pan & clean out debris).

 

Just as an update...this is bad.

 

Hold on a minute. If you are referring to those colored links not being ligned up --- read the last paragraph of the prior post again. The timing marks DO NOT align every revolution of the engine.


There are an odd number of links in the chain (61), and the sprockets have 21 and 42 teeth respectively. That creates a situation where the timing marks "WALK" around the chain. In other words, when timed correctly and the engine turns over one revolution they do not lign up the same way again for 61 revolutions - but THEN, it is on the opposite stroke (beginning of exhaust, instead of compression). It will not lign up perfectly again for 122 revolutions.


JUST COUNT LINKS FROM CRANK DOT TO PHASER MARK - 30 BOTH DIRECTIONS, ON BOTH BANKS - _NOT COUNTING_ THE ONE STRADDLING THE CRANK DOT.