but the joke is... the PT is classified as a truck for CAFE... which has a different requirement than cars... so Chrylser is in good shape with all of these Hemi's... that and many say that it still uses less gas than the 360.

 

6.2 liters...What would that be? 390, or so?
I'd buy one!

MR

 

I'd hardly call it overrated. It has more horsepower at peak (means it breathes well at high engine speeds) and similar torque from 1500-4500rpm, and another gear compared to the 04 F-150 3V 5.4L. And, it costs quite a bit less. The marketing may be overrated, but it is working. And Tow is right about the 6.1L Hemi coming, slotted for 05 model yyear, but I suspect it'll be 2005.5. Like the Cummins power boost mid 2004.

I find it humorous that some people can make fun of another vehicle getting 13mpg when that is all their own can get. From my 19k mile average, 13mpg would be a significant savings in fuel costs.

Anyway, more power with same economy is a good thing. I wonder if Ford will drop the V10 in the SuperDuty or give it an overhaul. DCX decided you only need the 5.7L Hemi or 5.9L Cummins in HD trucks.

 

I've seen dyno sheets on the HEMI and it's overrated. They put down only 250-265 HP to the wheels from a 345 HP rated engine. Compare that to a stock Lightning that puts down 330-345 stock with a 380 HP rating is more in line with parasitic losses. Either Dodge has some really inefficient trannies, or the HEMI is overrated. Just the facts. This is why I drive a Ford truck and not a Dodge.

 

Actually its more like from 250-280 for a stock hemi, still crappy that it verys that much. Aren't the Lightnings underrated, no automatic tranny in history has gotten 10% drivetrain loss, it should be more 15-20% which would mean the lightning is making more like 420hp at the crank.

 

250 RWHp from 345 crank is 28% drivetrian loss. That is highly possible on a 4wd automatic. Ever see a 4wd F-150 dyno plot? Similar percentages puts a 2V 5.4L in the 185-195 range which is what I have seen.

Automatics generally have 20-30% drivetrain hosepower losses, with AWD and 4WD systems taking an additional 3-5%. Manual transmissions are more like 12-18% losses. Torque numbers are less affected.

"Either Dodge has some really inefficient trannies, or the HEMI is overrated. .."

Or the Lightning is underrated., which is the most likely. I think the Supercharged Cobra is also underrated.

Why do so many people compare the high volume mass market Hemi with a limited production specialty engine? Are Lightning owners that insecure? They were each designed for vastly different markets. Regardless, the Lightning has 85 ft-lb of torque more than a Hemi, 23% more. Significant. For the cost of the current L, it has any other possible competitor handily beat as a package. Any of the big 3 trucks, with the largest V8 in a regular cab short bed truck with the features equipemnt of an L has an MSRP close to the L, even if significant discouts can be had.

 

That's funny. To answer your question, the only 2 dyno sheets I've actually held in my hands to behold have been from a stock L and a stock HEMI. Everyone knows something is wrong with the HEMI is overrated, however a L is not underrated. They actually make 380 HP. The SRT Rams, fortunately are making what they say they are. Don't be pissed at the facts.

 

Dodge has always overrated their motors. Been that way for years and years.. And yes Ford motors are underated.

 

Before this turns into the same old L vs. Hemi thread, let me just say I will be buying the 6.2 when it comes out. Sounds sweet!

Now back to the Hemi bashing.

 

let's just make sure what gpaje was saying....

the Hemi is over rated... but the marketing has been great...


is it possible he/she meant over rated as in "over done, talked about too much, ain't all that" etc...

and maybe the comment had nothing to do with horsepower....

 

I think the V10 will be a 3V engine for 2005, atleast that's what I read over at blueovalnews.com. I highly doubt that Ford will be dropping the V10 if this is the case. You can read more about it on the ford website since they've started talking about the new 2005 SD.

 

why why why why why

displacement is not the future of how to make more powerful engines. It's ineffective, takes more fuel, and weighs a lot more and requires more development.

BLOWERS!!!! take your pick. I know that fords been sticking with top blowers but screw that, get turbos. You will make the competition crap itslef with a good turbo and a 5.4. Hell i'll bet with a 4.6 and a good turbo, you could crank out more than 340 hp at the crank.

This should be so damned obvious, isn't the growing number of vehicles on the road with turbos letting you know that theres a good reason for this? Economy and power, this is what people want.

 

I apologize if I misread the statement. Sounds like we were both right.

 

Ford is so smart. All us guys buy the new'04. Then just when we think we could drive this truck forever it's tht good, WHAM they tease us with a 6.2 L V8 with who knows how much power on tap. Plus the 5 spd auto should be ready by then. WOW. I can hardly wait. Thank-You Dodge (& Nissan) for forcing Ford to up the ante. Given the '05 Chevy/GM is refreshed I suspect the '06 Ford will get this new motor.

 

Actually I was talking about horsepower! My cousin bought a Hemi Quad Cab 4x2 last year, and he seriously doubts it has 345 hp as stated! He is a regular on the Dodge Hemi web board, and many Hemi owners who dyno their engines are shocked by the low numbers. It's either they have overstated the horsepower, or that the driveline loss is very high.

Even Motor Trend (Truck of The Year Comparo) noted that the Hemi doesn't feel any stronger than the 300 horse Titan, and both of them have 5-speed autos and similar curb weights. Where's the beef?

By the way, the marketing of the Hemi engine is a textbook example of how to do it right (unlike the infamous Chrysler Celine Dion campaign).