Why would any American buy a Nissan or Toyota truck. More reliable, what ever. Cheaper in price, yes they usually are. I do realize plants in the USA produce these trucks that in turn produce jobs. The true big picture, a large part of our economy is built around the big 3 US automakers. The design, research and engineering is completed in the USA along with most factory jobs. Most US made vehicles do contain foriegn part content as part of the global economy. Huge profits from Toyota, Honda & Nissan goes back overseas. If US citizens do not continue to support US made products we will continue to lose jobs. GM, Ford and Dodge are forced to move jobs to Mexico to compete with imports due to lack of tariffs, lower pricing and slow sales. Even if the imports are produced in the US, the big profits go back over seas. Japan & Korea has huge tariffs on US built vehicles. Some day we could all be forced to drive a Toyota, I'll buy a horse instead or walk. I know its hard to find "Made in the USA" but please try to buy US products. Go red white and blue!

 

Absolutely.

Preach on brotha and thanks for not selling out.

 

Sorry dude, but I think you may have the facts a little confused. Two things:

First, you should buy the best car for the best price. That's how capitalism works, it's called the market force. You mentioned that foreign cars are more reliable, that's because they've engineered their cars that way, and that's why a lot of people buy them. If everybody though like you and bought American cars regardless of how reliable they are (or are not), American car makers would have no incentive to engineer them to be more reliable. You perpetuate the problem further.

Second, the automakers don't move the jobs to Mexico because they need to, they want to big time. Manufacturing in foreign countries saves companies billions every year. In Mexico you pay people less, they don't get as many benefits, there are fewer environmental restrictions, and you get a huge tax break from the US federal government. Our own government provides huge incentives to move overseas! So don't think that the big three are these noble souls that want to protect American jobs. If it weren't for the massive political fallout, they would all be in Mexico tomorrow. The global economy isn't about improving quality or efficiency, and it's not a liferaft for struggling American businesses. It's a cost cutting measure that ALL companies would take advantage of if they could. My company has a 5 year plan to relocate all of our manufacturing to Puerto Rico. They project it will save 500 million dollars a year. That makes the stockholder happy, and the executives get their bonus.

I'm buying an F-150 because I think it's the best vehicle at the best price. I'm glad if it helps the folks at Ford buy something at Christmas this year. I just don't think that buying American for its' own sake makes any sense, and in fact it probably does more harm than good in many cases.

 

Can we take this kind of discussion to General Discussion?
I'm sure other than just '04 F150 owners would be interested in the debate.

 

Valid arguments on both sides of the ball posted above. However the bottom line is Americans lose jobs every time a plant closes to relocate, sure it's smart capitalism but it still sucks and does no good for our internal economy. No jobs mean no spending means weak internal economy means ouch (recession) for all of us. When you live up in my neck of the woods where 9 out of 10 families have generations of Big 3 employees it sucks especially hard. Think and say what you wish but this guy has never and will never put anything but a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler in his driveway or garage. Actually I'll never put anything but a Ford in my drive since my family has deep roots in FoMoCo. To ramble on a bit more my family usually buys (no lease) a Ford car or truck, keeps it for 2 or 3 yrs and then trades it in on an upgrade. New sale, new loan, keeps people employed. It's called helping your own. Some of us Americans still believe in it.

 

Just announced this past week.. NEW TRADE DEFICIT RECORD!!! Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?? Each of us can make a difference. Just do it..

 

Here are the facts as I see them. First and an undisputed fact is when you buy foreign you “are” sending the vast majority of your money overseas. It does not stay here and it does not create jobs.

Another undisputed fact is companies outsource some or most of their labor work overseas because they “have” to not because they want to. There is a big difference between “want to” and “have to”.

The reason they “have to” is because that is what the competition demands them to do so they can stay competitive in the market. Does it make stock holders happy? Yes it does, but the “main” reason is because they “have” to. Do not be fooled by some that say it is done solely because companies want to.

However, with that said, those telling manufactures to send jobs overseas is just about every one of us. When we shop to buy something at the best possible price we have told manufactures “Send as much of your work overseas as possible”

My main point being it is not big business dictating to each other what they need to do (sending jobs overseas) to stay competitive it is all of us. When you buy foreign goods which includes foreign cars it’s another vote to send jobs overseas…

The thing I find amazing at times is people like ourselves will sit here and complain about jobs going overseas and to make ourselves feel better we blame big business when it is us who are the main reason for jobs going bye-bye…

 

01, I disagree. Because of NAFTA, tons of companies `want` to, because if a company can save 1 billion dollars by making their vehicles in Juarez, Mexico instead of Pascagoula, Mississippi, they would be crazy not to move their production to Mexico. That's why they're in business in the first place, is to make money, and any company will do anything necessary to make as much money as possible, so I do believe that it is because they want to. Also, who's thinking about the Americans that work in the Nissan and Toyota factories here? We don't want them out of jobs, either. Not buying American does not impact the common worker as much as you would think, just the company as a whole, and if American companies are paying workers in other countries to do the work, but the Japanese countries are paying Americans, then who really gets the benefits? It's the CEOs of the company that get paid huge bucks, anyway, not the average worker, so we're only helping or hurting the CEOs. The average worker for Nissan and Toyota is American.

 

First off I want to say that I am on the side of buying American. But do we really need to go over this debate for like the 5th time in a month? Just asking so please don't bite my head off.

 

Hey there are some great points here. I agree that buying American puts money in the pockets of Americans. In the long term though, I think that the way the system is set up places responsibilites on the consumer that force us to make tough decisions.

I disagree when people say that corporations don't want to cut costs. CEO's are completely beholden to executive boards, stockholders, and quarterly financial reports. If profits aren't rising, their jobs are in danger. American automakers have done a great job in winning back business form the Japanese. Look at how many American SUV's are rolling around these days. To survive they have to reinvent their business in such a way as to decrease costs and grow the customer pool. Hate to say it, but moving operations overseas is part of this strategy. So in this way, they want to move their manufacturing to Mexico and elsewhere.

When you buy an F150, you are doing the right thing. Obviously there are some people among us who are willing to spend almost 40K on a truck. That's good news! It's sad when I see people on these forums saying that the lower trim models are ****. Ford makes them so everybody can get a great truck. We can't all buy Lariats right? Maybe you can get a really nice Tundra for the cost of a not so nice F150. Which is the best truck for the least money? That's a tough call. Maybe buying a stripped F150 is the right thing to do for America. America needs to find a way to offer Americans what they want at a price they can afford. That's the bottom line.

 

Its hard to fix this problem at the consumer level, buying American. But buying American makes perfect sense, and here is why.

As pointed out in this thread, companies move overseas to maintain or increase profits, primarily for the benefit of executive bonus's. Stockholders sometimes profit, sometimes not. Just look at when the execs at Chrysler sold out the company for over 100 million in exec bonus. The stock price tanked. Also anyone who thinks that the board of directors keeps a close reign on the execs is naive. The CEO handpicks who he wants to get on the board, thats just the way it works. Companies can make good profits manufacturing in the US, but all those damn GE executives that were trained 'global' have spread out and infected so many large corporations its amazing. There is a definate reason why stockholder confidence is so low.

The fact is that many bonus plans are paid quarterly on how much the management has reduced operating costs. For example a twenty million dollar US facility is closed and a two million dollar foreign facility is opened. Instant 18 million dollar paper savings = big bonus for the quarter. Doesn't matter that the plant still effeciently made product. As an exec, would you really want to live in a community of poor people, a community you helped destroy the economic health of just because you needed a bigger pool? How short sighted have we gotten?

The SOLUTION is for our society (government) to wake up and to come up with ways for it to be attractiive for companies to build facilities in the U.S. US facilities equals US jobs. And we all know that our 'rules' for business in the U.S. are costly compared to elsewhere. It shouldn't just be free trade, it should be equal trade. A good analogy is that US plants have to kick their field goals from the 60 yard line, while plants in other countries kick from the 20 yard line! Why are we allowing companies from other countries that do not maintain the social standards we insist upon with US manufactures to raid our US markets?

We all need to realize that a company that is US owned and produces in the US returns almost all of its income back into the community. We can't continue to export our wealth without diminishing the quality of our communities.

As for me, I will always buy US when I have a choice, however I have sinned with my wifes AMG clk320. Its so much easier to buy American now that it was in the 70s and 80s when product was so much junk. By the way I had my screw on order when I read Ford is building a 2 billiion dollar plant in Mexico, my heart just sank, I almost cancelled my order I was so upset. Jeez guys, when you think about that big number its like 2,000 millions. Thats a LOT of money.

Sorry bout my rant, but I am in manufacturing and I am familiar with seeing projects our company was involved in go overseas just for executive bonus and increased corporate profits. US products replaced with Chinese products at the same retail price to the consumer.

And if we continue to spin off these production jobs, whether its manufacturing, agriculture, or what ever, then for a fact our communities will suffer years down the road. Ol Henry Ford had it right when he initially paid his workers a high wage, so they could afford a car, a Ford of course.

TruBluScru, I just hope for your sake its not your job that gets sent overseas, been involved in that first hand and it sucks.

Wow, I sure blew it out here, way to much of a post. Hope I didn't put you all to sleep. I probably violated number of words allowed in a post.

 

Buy American or move to Japan and beg for rice, God when will you wake up. I don't care want "they say" You live, work, play and eat in the "GOOD OLD USA"

 

I dispute that. Vast majority of money? Depends on one's definition of vast. At the price of a new car, I suppose. Your last point is completely invalid. Buying a new car (from any manufacturer) gives your salesman a job, the dealer owner, the service people, the finance people at the dealer, your DMV clerk, and many more people that are your neighbors. Sure, there is extra money if the plant that builds your new vehicle is in your own town, but saying that buying a foreign vehicle does not create jobs is false. It does create fewer jobs than buying domestic.

01, you have a skewed perception of how the market and capitalism work. Some valid points, and some ignorant ones. Not that I have any more knowledge than the next guy, though.

I agree with TruBlu. When someone buys an inferior product, he subsidised that product. The manufacturer keeps producing that inferior product becuse they don't think the market sees the inferiority. We, the consumers, have the power. We have the money. If someone wants to prove your displeasure with any product, you hurt the company's bottom line, on't buy from them. Sink or swim, the company will have to make changes, improve, cheapen, whatever necessary or it fails. Does that affect people's jobs? Sure. But those workers can help themselvs by improving their own problems to help the company improve the product or bottom line.

Those people that are losing jobs have a choice. Either they b!tch about all day and drive everyone they encounter mad or they do something about it. All that means is people will rarely be doing the same job for 30 years. We have to retrain, learn other skills so we can do other things to get paid. My jobi s going to low cost regions as well. Has anyone heard of low cost engineering? A person in India costs a company 1/5 of me to d othe same job. Am I complaining? Well,a little at times, but I have to figure out how to best legerave my skills or learn new ones so that I prove my value to some local company.

Some people are mis-aligning causes and effects. The economy, (somewhat) free market, and capitalism is a complex, dynamic system.

BTW, Moderators, can we get this thread out of the 2004 F-150 forum?

 

it doesnt matter where the car/truck is "assembled" Look at the total vehicle and then say "how much of this car in dollars and man-hours happened in NA vs Japan vs Europe vs Pacific Rim"

You may have a Toyota assembled in Alabama or wherever, but 80% of the total man-hours that made the car came from Japan. Or whatever the real percent is.

They assemble F150's in Canada with Canadian assembled engines. But how many of the engine parts, tires, body panels etc are sourced from Canadaian suppliers, how many from Mexican, how many from Taiwan etc.

The other thing to keep in mind is retirement funds. Is Toyota in any of your mutual fund holdings? Probably not. But I bet Ford and GM are.

Just like P&G is in your portfolio (US company) but Unilever probably isnt (Dutch company) So buy Tide or Cheer before Gain.

 

Next time you go to Walmart look at all the junk made in China