X2 really like ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Ok as far as a quick fix that is cheap. I have heard of people welding in a piece of angle iron under the radiator. Not sure if you got a welder handy or not but worth a shot.

 

You need to think a little more about what your saying. Your didn't just bash one member, since that seems to what your worried about now. You took a cheap shot at Ford. Therefore your bashing consists of many, a community more less. If it had merit, I would have no problem backing it. The vehicle is also over a decade old. Bad practice, neglect, lack of common sense and just laziness can add up over that period of time. It can take awhile, but will eventually add up. Since that is the case here, makes no sense to point the finger at the manufacturer. That's easy to do isn't it.... It's a cheap shot, no less.

Everyone has accomplishments, it's something we learn from and can be proud of. Nothing wrong with that and shared information/experiences can be priceless. As I pointed out before, your not considering all the facts. This I know first hand and it's what you should have picked up from my earlier reply IMO.

You may want to put yourself in check and go from there with this one. Of course, that's just a suggestion.

Stick around, - you have the skills and experience which could benefit many, myself included. Might have to grow thicker skin, since people can get offended and speak their mind. You can get past that.

 

As a die hard Ford owner, I stand by what I said about Ford and these trucks... and based it on facts I have observed. And what I observed would be hard for someone to deny or disagree with.

What I mean is:

In 2000, my brother bought a brand new '00 Suzuki Swift (exactly the same as a Geo Metro) and my friend bought a brand new '00 Ford F150. Neither recieved any special undercoating or rustproofing. All 3 of us live within 15 miles of each other.

Both vehicles were the primary transportation of each owner, both were driven in the same weather/road conditons, both racked up 160k miles over the next 12 years.

My brother abused the crap out of the Suzuki... it was never washed/waxed, sat outside it's whole life, interior was trashed, was in 2 accidents... and the kicker, he blew the engine but bragged about how long it lasted considering he had only changed the oil 5 times while he owned it! Silly right?

The Ford truck was babied, garage kept, regular service, washed/waxed and kept spotless.

The middle of last year, I bought both vehicles. I did a full restoration on the Suzuki (new engine, tranny, better used interior and paint). There was no rust anywhere on the car to speak of, body panels OR underside.

The truck on the other hand was a completely different story. The paint, interior and running condition was like new... but, the underside had severe rust everywhere.

Looking at both cars on a lift was like night and day... and the funny part is the Suzuki Swift is what most would consider the "disposable razor" of cars... meant to be used then thrown away and not built for longevity, on the other hand, the f150 is touted as being "Built Ford Tough" and most would say has the rep of outlasting it's compitition.

Since taking ownership of both vehicles, I have basically torn each one down to a shell and have compared what I've seen along the way. I can tell you (and have pics to back me up) that when it comes down to keeping rust away, the Swift is a better engineered car over the Ford. Keep in mind I'm a die hard Ford fan and owner... that being said, I'm giving an opinion on what I've seen while working on both of them.

It is what it is and even though it may be a hard pill to swallow for me and my fellow Ford fans, I stick to my opinion that Ford dropped the ball by...

1. creating many unnecessary gaps where panels come together that do nothing but catch and hold salt, dirt and moisture.
2. leaving many, many areas primed but not painted.
3. using a thin and inferior factory undercoating on the frame.

You can stick to your guns and say misuse or neglect was a contributing factor in the result of the truck rusting like a tin can and the Suzuki not rusting at all.... but both vehicles were of same age, submitted to the same environment and had the same mileage when I bought them. I was around both cars during their life and witnessed how each owner cared for them... and the truck was babied while the Swift was severely neglected.

There is no excuse any engineer at Ford could give me that would make me feel differently.... there simply is NO excuse for an econobox Suzuki Swift to outlast a Ford F150 of the same age/mileage/exposure. There is no reason my truck should look like this when my Swift still looks new underneath.

Salt catching body braces:


Leaking fuel tank at straps:


Rusted spring shackles:


Rad support, body mounts:


Hole in passenger floor pan:




So without getting too far off the OPs subject, Ford DID fail us when designing these trucks and by not putting forth the effort to build a quality, long lasting vehicle... now owners like myself and the OP are faced with the daunting task of repairing rust that should not be as bad as it is for a vehicle of this age. And even if this hurts some members feeling, it's sad that an import like a lowly Suzuki Swift can make a Ford truck look bad in a side by side comparison.

 

Well, that's not in debate.
Yea, that's totally the factor. I'll attempt to simplify. Maybe it'll take this time. (?) In some cases, when the front ends are worked on, the wheel well liners (or skirts) are removed. These use plastic push pins which can deform and break. When this occurs, the majority of the time the skirts are left off or reinstalled half a$$ so that they fall of eventually. Same goes for that large rubber barrier under the core support. From the majority I've seen, the skirts are missing along with the other piece mentioned. When this occurs the entire front clip, engine compartment and firewall are hit constantly with road spray that eventually embeds and corrodes everywhere within. That's why the core supports fail and it's the ONLY reason.... Neglect. Neglecting to replace push pins and the part they are fastening.
Here's a 98's front clip with a quarter million miles on it and MANY salty Michigan miles. I can say for a fact that when something broke it was fixed thoroughly. Because of that, the corrosion damage was minimal at best, -

Broke in, -









Did have a little rust, not bad, -



__________________________________________________


When the factory parts that protect the engine compartment and front clip are left in place, under the hood will remain relatively clean. Yes, it eventually gets dirty, but very easy to clean up without corrosion to deal with -





__________________________________________________ ___


They don't need an excuse as the F150 has been rated #1 for many years during the tenth generation. Your crying is somewhat comical since the explanation is so obviouse for those with experience in this area.
Oh brother There you go again lol. Perhaps your brother paid a little extra when going through the car wash and got the "under-bottom blast" option. Who knows?? Perhaps if you spent more of your time being thorough with your truck and had taken care of it better vs praising your brothers Suzuki, you and yours may have been envied.

Ford didn't drop the ball at all as far as I'm considered. This generation of truck is good one. Maybe if one had the ***** to admit personal failure, that one could see, get past it, overcome and adapt.

All vehicles rust, under certain conditions, some worse than others. Fords are know different, they're all made of metal. Winters within the snow-belt are hard on any vehicle and we have had are share here, -



That's for sure.

 

Not the case with my truck.... all wheel liners, the two front rubber pieces on either side of the rad opening, the large rubber barrier under the core as well as the top rad cover were all there and installed correctly when I dsimantled it, with not a single push pin missing. I would even go as far to say they had never been removed since they were installed at the factory.

This is flat out wrong. The corners of the core support and the area above the front body mounts of MY truck rusted because Ford cheaped out and left those areas unpainted from the factory, not because of missing splash shields. Proof:





Please re-read my last post. I clearly stated a FRIEND of mine bought the F150 new in '00 and owned it up until the middle of 2012 when I bought it from him. So I don't understand the above comment.

Once again, I don't understand this comment. What personal failure should I admit since I bought the truck only 6 months ago? Besides, the truck was NOT neglected by the previous owner either... like I said, I was around this truck it's whole life and witnessed that it got regular maintenance, washed and waxed often and was always garage kept. I also watched the undercarraige of the truck rust out from under him while my brothers Swift hardly changed underneath from the day he bought it.

After reading this and viewing those pics, I came to the conclusion that you either don't know a re-painted vehicle when you see one... or you are flat out lying.

One thing I do have is an eye for detail and I see many thing in your pics that tell me that truck has been dismantled and repainted and is NOT as it came from the factory... at least not the factory MY truck was built at.

For starters and the most obvious:
1. the fasteners (bolts) that attach the fenders to the area just below the headlights.
2. the bolts that attaach the center vertical support in the rad opening.
3. the hood bumpers at the front corners.

They are all black in your pics and should be the same color as the body if this truck indeed has never been touched, since those parts were most defintely installed BEFORE paint was applied at the factory. Also, the headlight header panel should have some white overspray on it and not a nice clean black color like in your pic, since it too was installed at the factory prior to painting.



On mine, you can plainly see lots of factory overspray on the header panel and if you zoom in, you can also see the vertical support bolt heads are body color.... and my truck has NEVER been repainted.



When I removed the header panel, you can see the unpainted area behind where it attached proving it was indeed installed before factory paint was applied. You can aslo see in this pic that the hood bumpers were installed before paint and are the same color as the body.



And in this photo, there is no arguing that the fender well has been repainted because, for one, the black rectangular foam pad was put on at the factory AFTER paint was applied... your pic show it covered in plenty of white overspray.



My foam pads were black and free from body color overspray.



Also the entire wheel well of the white truck has much better paint coverage than what my truck has, proving even better that the white truck has been repainted in that area. Notice the lack of paint coverage in my trucks wheel well.



I also noticed the frame on the white truck is a nice shiney black. I've looked at these trucks very closely when brand new and the finish on the frame is ALWAYS a matt black with a thin layer of rubberized undercoating sprayed on them... there is no way that frame has gone through "a 1/4 of a million salty Michigan miles" and still looks better than a brand new one.

My experience tells me the white truck above has been taken apart, parts painted individually and reassembled... and possibly even given a body-off-frame restoration. And for you to post pics of it to "prove" to me that these trucks hold up against rust is a little disturbing... you're kinda just throwing punches in the wind at this point of the dicussion we are having.

 

Yes, I undercoated. Auhh, that's what helps slow down the rust. Undercoating isn't shiny. The only thing Black and shiny is the tow hooks and those were removed and painted.

As far as everything else, SO WHAT! This is in reference to the core support rusting out and the causes. Mine looks good don't it. Don't even try picking my work apart, I've already seen yours and some of that is pretty good, but that's as far as I'll go.

Your reaching, getting bent because you didn't take care of your truck as well as you could have. Hey, that's not my fault buddy. We keep it honest here and post useful info. If you choose to visit and start bashing Ford and it's engineers, you better know what your talking about. You proved the ladder. I suggest you think again about how much better you really are than Ford, since have know business appointing yourself as an authority. Keep pointing the finger for your own faults and this is what you'll get. Keep it honest and you just may end up with useful information.

Don't take offense, just have mama warm you up a bottle.

Done, -what a waste case.

 

You can stop your pathetic drawing on my truck. Better hope I don't resort to that, I'm a fricken artist.





Prune

 

Since you obviously aren't reading my posts thoroughly before responding and seem to be stuck on the idea that I am somehow responsible for how bad my truck has rusted, this will be my last attempt to spell it out for you.

A FRIEND OF MINE BOUGHT THE TRUCK NEW IN '00 AND OWNED IT UNTIL HE SOLD IT TO ME 6 MONTHS AGO... AND AFTER I BOUGHT IT, IT HAS BEEN IN MY GARAGE BEING DISMANTLED.

So how could I possibly be bent that I didn't take care of my truck?

On the contrary, I have been busting my *** daily on this rust bucket... since Ford likes to build trucks that start rusting before they even leave the dealership.

Keep an eye out for my build thread that will show just how much back breaking work you can expect to get into if you decide to purchase one of these "Built Ford Tough" trucks.

I fully expect to see you come in and tell me all my work could have been avoided if I had taken better care of it. LOL. And that it all happened because the splash shields are to blame. LOL. And then post more pics trying to pass off a restored and repainted show truck as one that has been driven 250k miles in salty Michigan winters. LOL.

Give me a break.

 

I just had to have my radiator support replaced as well. It's an 01 F150 with 100k even on the clock. It has the splash guards and the rubber/plastic guard under the radiator was in place and in tact. 11 winters in central PA and the radiator support was shot. I dont know how well it was maintained as far as washing goes but the outside is spotless. Pain is atleast an 8 out of 10 which is saying something for a turck this old. Also the spring shackles are rusted pretty bad, and the rocker panels needed replaced. I have only had the truck a few months but there is something about F150s and rad supports. The Ford dealer told me that they do 3-4 a month on this generation because they wont pass inspection. I have to lean towards Capri-debris on this one. I am an avid Ford owner but it seems like they either dropped the ball here or just plain and simple 12 winters is too much for a radiator support in the snow belt.

 

Restored and repainted ? Actually, I've been doing that. With the bed and rockers. The core support and front clip are rock solid and have remained that way since I purchased the vehicle new. I don't tell BS stories about such things as it would be no help to others. If I did, it would have showed way before now.. You think. All those posts with the purpose to deceive? I don't think so. Nope, I help others and gratification is more than enough payment of this end. You on the other hand need to point the finger after accomplishing something good. Your just one of those afraid to admit possible failure and scared to learn anything new, publicly. You may continue being that legend in your own mind if desired. Your only fooling yourself and hey, if you gather some groupies, -good for you. That just means your not the only fool out there, you need each other since it's the only support you have.

Good luck with all that.

 

BTW- That rubber bumper in the wheel well has over-spray on it because when totally gutting the the brake system and EVAP, I managed to scratch up the firewall behind. I had touched it back up before replacing everything and that rubber bumper must have caught some of that.

Any bolt removed on the front end for ANY reason was either wire wheeled re-installed or totally replaced. No, I don't paint my bolts . I apply a coating of grease over them. You sure are good at eventing stories, - keep up the good work.

You need to realize your BS isn't going fly EVERYWHERE. Your creditability is shot to hell now. No worries, -just here AFAIK.

 

I don't think insulting new members is a very good reflection of this forum despite their displeasure with the rust on their Ford.

 

Then don't fricken do it! I didn' t start with that, read it again, this time read slowly.

_$$

Alex_4.2, - got it.

 

Well I understand he is on a Ford forum but no company is perfect including Ford. Its possible to have a disagreement without being condescending or insulting someones intelligence.