In late March, I went to "Just Brakes" to fix a squeeling issue w/ my brakes. I had 50k miles on it, and got a complete brake job (new pads, turned rotors, etc.) done (first brake job for this truck). I drove from Houston, TX to Florida and back (approx 2k miles roundtrip) and upon my return, my truck would vibrate when I applied my brakes. I took it back to Just Brakes, and they said they couldn't figure out what was wrong, and re-turned the rotors and cleaned up the pads. Now, the truck is vibrating again and now squeeling.

I read some posts and articles on this site, and read about rotors that continually warp, quickly.

Did Just Brakes do a bad job? Or is this a Ford issue?

I'm not a mechanic, but just a woman trying to figure out if I'm getting screwed by Just Brakes. I wouldn't expect that a new brake job would go bad after just 4 months and 8k miles later.

Any help or information would be extremely appreciated.

- Jen

 

You will likely end up with a new set of rotors.

Did you make any 'panic stops' or long downhill brake applications during your trip?

It sounds like the brakes were not burnished-in (fancy term meaning worn/baked in) well. There's usually no instruction given to the owner (you) by the repair shop -- but brakes like being gently worn in -- takes a couple hundred miles of mild stop & go.

Obviously, you use your brakes as needed -- but generally, one doesn't want to do any 'performance braking' until things are cooked in.

The metalic properties of the rotor change over the life of the rotor -- and the purpose for resurfacing them is to make one side parallel with the other and at the same time remove any surface blemishes. Unfortunately, sometimes the turning does not entirely remove abnormalities within the structure of the metal -- which may have been the result of many many heat/cold/heat/cold cycles during it's life.

Assuming the repair shop did the job right, and used pads of equivalent performance and quality as those originally provided by Ford, despite who's 'at fault', you may find that new rotors fix the problem -- likely for another 50k miles as you've already experienced.

 

See, this is where I get confused. Aren't rotors designed to be turned? My rotors had never been turned before the maintenance in March (2002). I would have thought that turning rotors is "normal", and that I would have use of my original rotors until they've been turned so much that they're too thin.

I haven't made any "panic stops" and I'm actually a pretty gentle brake user. The shop did actually tell me about being gentle with the new brakes for the first 100 miles. He told me that he could tell that I was gentle on my brakes, by the way the old brake pads wore. I'm not sure if that was fluff on his part, or if he could actually determine that by my old pads.

Anyway, I'm pretty suprised (and pissed) that after 50k miles, I'd need new rotors. Maybe I'm just being naive, but I seriously thought that my rotors would last longer than 3 years. I live in Houston, so I do a lot of city driving. And I wouldn't say that I've done anything extreme with my brakes (i.e., emergency stopping), other than the constant stop/go that can occur in traffic.

I guess if I need new rotors, I need new rotors. But I'll be pissy about it. LOL

I was just looking at my original window sticker of the truck, and it says that I have "4W- DISC". I've been told that the Drum brakes are more $$ to service and the Disc brakes are cheaper. First, is this correct? Secondly, when I went to Brake Stop, they said that I had an "upgraded" braking system - like for the Expedition. How do I know if I have "typical" brakes or a super-duper upgraded system?

Thanks for all your help - you're very kind to help me.
- Jen

 

4 wheel disc, eh?

Well, assuming that you're driving an F150 -- and assuming that it's a 1999 -- I'm guessing that you have a Lariat (it would be helpful for you to tell us what you're driving).

It's hard to diagnose over the internet, but there's squealing; and there's squealing. And it may be that what you heard originally was the wear indicator against your rotor (which is good, as it prevented you from destroying your brakes).

Squealing, without a contact/wear problem, is another issue -- and can be a subject by itself (I worked in the test lab for Eaton's Brake Division -- and can tell you that engineers earned a pretty good living studying/fixing brake noise -- as their primary project).

I must presume that Just Brakes used the proper lining material -- although I must admit that I suspect brake shops use one grade 'harder' material -- so they can warrant them as 'lifetime brake pads' -- which, if that's the case, shifts the braking load to the other axle -- which COULD explain the pulsations -- if they were now coming from the other axle. Did you have all four brakes relined?

At this point, plant it back in the brake shop's lap -- and let them 'fix' it. If they do ultimately turn the rotors to the point of potato-chip thickness -- it's appropriate for them to sell you new rotors at cost -- as a customer satisfaction policy.

You have the upper hand -- keep asking them why -- and take advantage of the 'pregnant pause' -- letting them speak -- and carefully making mental note of what they say. When they trip on their tie, then ask them if they're trying to pull a fast one on a vulnerable... you get the timing/picture.

Go back and ask and ask -- don't tell an yell.

Report back.

 

my guess is that they used a heavy hand in putting the rims back on! If you have a 4x4 it will warp them every time!

3 years is a good for a set of brakes

I have a '99 xlt with 4 wheel discs. I believe it comes with the towing package, it's not super-duper just better than front disc/rear drum set ups.

make them use a torque wrench and tell them it is their fault that the rotors warped! Do not let them use "Torque Sticks" they do not work!

good luck!

 

Early 1999's had rear drum brakes. On December 1, 1998, the 1999's brake assembly was switched to rear disk brakes.

when a rotor is turned it will be more prone to warpage. Less metal = less heat dissapation. It could warp from rapid heating and cooling and/or in combination with over torqued lug nuts. Could be the break in of the new pads. Get the shop to fix it free.

 

Just to clarify. I have a 1999 F150 XLT (not a Lariat) 4x2 . I have 4 wheel disk brakes. I've never made any "panic stops", as I'm usually pretty easy on my brakes.

The vibrations of my truck finally got the best of me and I finally took the truck back to Just Brakes (yes, I'm a procrastinator). They took it for a test drive and verified that it was shaking. They looked at the brakes and said they looked fine. Maybe minor warpage on the rotors, but nothing they could pinpoint. They said maybe it could be the tires. They rotated my tires.

They also admitted that the last time they did the brakes, the tech didn't connect the brake line (hose) correctly. It was twisted, crimped, bent (we argued over their wording on what was exactly wrong w/ it, since I didn't get to see it myself). This twisted hose was on the front right side. They said they fixed it, but it didn't look like they replaced it, but just straightened it out.

They took it for another test drive, and it was MUCH better, but not 100%.

They looked at it again, and said they figured out what was wrong. With the truck elevated, they noted that both my rear tires and my front right tire (the one that had the kinked brake line) was free turning...but my front left tire would not turn freely. So they said my calipers were bad. Said it would be about $300 to rebuild it. They said they would turn that rotor again.

Not sure what to think, I took it to another garage (independently owned & reputable) and they verified what Just Brakes said. However, they said that at 59k miles, my caliper should NOT be bad. They suggested that with the front right brake hose kinked/twisted, it likely prevented brake fluid from getting to that brake, and my front left brakes were doing all the work...which caused them to build up heat...causing the rotors to begin to warp. All of this together likely caused my major vibrations. He did give me a quote if he were to do it, but he said that I really needed to go back to Just Brakes and make them fix it for free. Because my front/left calipers wouldn't be shot if the front/right brake hose wasn't kinked.

The independent garage also said that I should force Just Brakes to use a new part and NOT have THEM rebuild the caliper. I'd like your opinion on this.

After talking w/ the independent garage, I returned to Just Brakes and talked w/ them. I told them I wanted my caliper fixed for free OR my money back from the original brake job (~$300). After a bit of arguing, they agreed to do the job for free but that they'd rebuilt the caliper and NOT replace w/ new. He said there isn't such a thing as a "new" caliper - that new calipers are merely rebuilt calipers. Is this true?

So, I'm still going to try to get my money back so the independent garage can do the work. But if I'm unable to get my money back, I'm going to have to have Just Brakes do the work. At this point, I'd rather that they don't work on my truck, but I may not have an option.

Your comments and feedback is deeply appreciated! Thanks guys!
- Jen

 

Pretty much everything that all parties stated makes sense.

You broke it, you fix it. The only thing they can't replace here is your time and faith in mechanics.

At 59,000 miles, you don't really deserve a new caliper. What would be perfectly fair is if they gave you a caliper from another truck that had 59,000 miles. When they rebuild the caliper, they're replacing the parts that wear out and keeping the main unit. If you were to go down to a local parts store and ask for a brake caliper, they'd tell you there is a core charge of say $20.00. When you bring back your used caliper, they give you back that $20.00 core charge and send your old caliper off to be rebuilt and resold. The only way to really get a new caliper would be a performance brake system or directly from Ford. A new Ford caliper will cost $225.00.

I don't think you'll get your money back without a fuss. The least painful option is to have Just Brakes rebuild the caliper and replace the warped rotor at no cost to you and consider this your lesson about chain stores. Most chain stores have a high employee turn-over rate, whereas an independent shop is most likely run by the owner and has had the same mechanics for years.

 

It is nomal to do things in pairs (2 calipers, 1 pair of brakes, resurface 2 rotors, etc).

A rebuilt caliper, done by a reputable shop, should be undifferentiatable from a new one (translation: just fine).

Turning the rotors a second time is like squirting half of the toothpaste out to get rid of a bubble, then finding another bubble and squirting another half out to get rid of the other bubble. Before you know it, you have no toothpaste.

You want "meat" on the rotors -- it is there to soak up heat. The less metal, the faster it heats, and the faster your brakes will wear out.

You will likely end up with a new set of rotors (sound familiar?).