97-03 f150 brake shudder issue

[speepdaedeesi]

i have searched and searched and seen that many people have had this problem.... shuddering or vibration while braking. although usually once the problem is corrected the origional poster does not come back and explain the outcome, the few times they do, i have noted a few causes for this. 1. warped front rotors (feel the shudder more in the steering wheel) 2. warped rear rotors (feel the shudder more in the seat) 3. rear ABS wheel speed sensor (shudder in seat) 4. front ABS wheel speed sensor/s (shudder in steering wheel) ive also noticed that the original poster may or may not say that the ABS light is on. when they do note that its on, they usually find out pretty quick that autozone cannot scan ABS codes for free... so it kinda makes you think you either have to work by process of elimination, possibly spending unnecessary cash, or take it to the dealer and for sure spend unnecessary cash lol. well heres my problem... abs light is on, brakes shudder when applied. 03 f150 supercrew 4wd i bought it with 150k on it, and it was a one owner truck. previous owner did tow with it occasionally. (paid $6500 if you must know) so.. here we are. this is no "light" shuddering, its a full blown shudder. so im hesitant to say it feels like the front or back, because i can feel it both in the seat and in the steering wheel lol. the ABS light came on shortly after i bought it, and its gotten worse and worse. so... being that i hate dealers, and i could probably replace my entire brake/ABS/etc system myself for less than the dealer would charge me to diagnostic it... im going to be giving it a go on my own. (seriously i think the dealer would charge 20-50 bucks to read the codes, but i dont care). so first thing i did was just look at the condition of the rotors and pads through the gaps in the rims. what i saw was that the rotors should definitely be replaced, and that the pads are getting there. with that in mind, i put rotors/pads on the to-do list. i bought the rear ABS wheel speed sensor first, because its 20 bucks, and known to fail. i figure its cheap preventative maintenance, and hey if it fixes it then why not. got that installed, but didnt unplug the battery to reset the computer- yeah i know... but i had alot going on. so- ive probably driven the truck over 300 miles since then- well enough to reset the computer on its own, and the light still comes on, and the brakes still shudder. so, being the thrifty bastard i am- hey, ive got two "built" jeep wranglers im buying crap for too- next i will be doing the front brakes/rotors. 2 reasons why i am going with the front first... 1. i can only afford to do either the front or the back right now-jeeps to blame for that- 2. from what ive read, the front rotors warping is more common. now like i said earlier, both my front and rear brakes need to be done... but i live on an army base and have 3 vehicles to choose from when driving to work my loooong 2 mile trip every day, so it doesnt get driven much. so, ill update this tonight and let you know if it helps or not..

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[speepdaedeesi]

oh and while your waiting.... i found this online and thought it was pretty interesting..

http://www.youfixcars.com/ford-abs-light.html

" Ford ABS Light
ford abs light image

Ford ABS light common problems. Although this page is directed at specific problems with Ford vehicles the diagnostic tips can be applied to any ABS light problem.

At our fleets auto repair shop, we have been seeing a rash of anti lock light's illuminated on our fleet of older Ford F150 and f250 pickup trucks. These vehicles have been setting front wheel speed sensor codes both for the left front wheel and the right front wheels.

After doing some visual inspection, it was noted that the sensors were damaged where the wires attached to the head of the sensor. Digging in and finding out what was causing this common malfunction was a two-man operation. I had another mechanic turn the wheel from lock to lock while I observed the front wheel speed sensor and wiring harness.

wheel speed sensor imagesWhen the steering reached the end of its travel the wiring harness was pulled tight and was causing stress at the point where it enters the wheel speed sensor.

If I had caught this problem earlier, a simple re-routing of the harness would have provided more slack and prevented damage. This also would have avoided the necessary replacement of the wheel speed sensors which requires the removal of the rotor on most applications.
Ford ABS light problems
image of abs reluctor ring As you can probably guess, I decided to dig into our technical service bulletins to see if I could find a TSB related to this Ford ABS light problem. Once again, I was not disappointed and found actually that there were three separate publications about specific Ford ABS light problems.

The first bulletin covered the problem that I have mentioned above. The second bulletin describes a common anti-lock light problem where are the reluctor ring is either missing a tooth or has been damaged or broken and is providing intermittent signals to the front wheel speed sensor.

This reluctor ring looks like a gear with teeth on it. As the wheel rotates the teeth pass, the magnetic wheel speed sensor and provides a reading that is translated into mph.

When the brake computer notes that that wheel is not moving. It begins to pulse the calipers on that particular wheel. If it receives false information or erratic signals it will turn on the warning light to notify the driver of a problem with the system. It may also cause the ABS system to go active and pulse the brakes at low speeds when it is not necessary.

The last bulletin describes a problem that I haven't seen yet, but is listed as a common problem with 1997 through 1999 Ford F 150 and F250 2 Wheel Drive models only. The service publication describes a condition where the wheel speed sensor will work its way out of the spindle housing.

This increased gap between the reluctor ring and the sensor can also cause erroneous wheel speed data. The sensor body should be flush with the spindle housing. I have not seen this problem, but maybe you will.

The ABS bulletin recommends replacement of the wheel speed sensor, but after conferring with a few technicians in my shop They say, it is worth trying to re-seat The sensor by pushing it inward, and seeing if the problem is solved. If this doesn't work, you can always replace the sensor at that point. "


so thats something im looking in to as well.

see the other thing is.. shuddering is one thing, but ive got the ABS light on as well, and i dont know if they are related yet. dont care about codes yet, as my brakes need to be done regardless.

dont get me wrong.. .if there was a quick and easy way to get ABS codes i would, but all the shops around here will have me waiting hours to take the 10 mins to check the codes, and i might not need them to.

[speepdaedeesi]

and pics for you to look at as well..






03 screw- all stock except snap on bedcover and in dash touchscreen dvd player

blue wrangler- 350 v8, carb, muncie sm465, np205, 10 bolt front, 14 bolt rear, soa lift, 3" bl, 44" boggers, 37" hummer tires, straight pipes

black wrangler- vortec 350 v8, tbi, ported and polished, 2-into-1 exhaust with cherry bomb, rebuilt 700r4, locked front and rear, custom transfer, sye, soa, 1"bl, RE 1.5" springs, cv ds, d30 front, ford 8.8 rear, 35" pro comps, pro comp rims, RE skid plate, RE brake lines, frame sandblasted and por-15d, tub por-15d, mint interior, interior rhino lined, 15g fuel cell, custom LED brake lights, front rock crawler lights, goes on and on and on

[Dnasty777]

Subscribed! I've got the same problem, it shakes like no other! I think my problem is my front rotors because they looked pretty rough when I had them off while installing the lift.

I also believe that you were on one of the trep forums I was on.


EDIT: Awesome jeeps! I hope to got a Cherokee one day.

[speepdaedeesi]

i probably was, either di or lh.
sweet truck there. id love to lift mine but my wife would never forgive me. she says we need to have one vehicle that is easy to get in.

you have to literally climb up the tire to get in the blue one lol... bottom of the door is 44" or so off the ground

[speepdaedeesi]

ok well i got the front pads and rotors on.

one thing i did--

i unplugged the neg battery cable while i was working but i dont think i did it long enough to reset the battery, it only took me 30-40 minutes total...

but i took the tire, then caliper, then rotor, then dust shield, then abs sensor off... and i cleaned the abs sensor really good with a rag, then sprayed brake cleaner on it, let it dry, and put it back in.

did that on both sides.

went on a test drive, and the abs light is still on, and the brakes still shudder.

next week or so i will be doing the rear brakes... i know the rear abs sensor is good because its a month or so old... but hopefully its a rear rotor thats warped.

the rear rotors are (by visual inspection through the gaps in the rims) in waaay worse shape than the front... and after really thinking about what i was feeling while test driving it, it does feel like its more in the seat and body than anywhere else... so hopefully thats the fix.

if not....

to be continued i guess lol.

[speepdaedeesi]

UPDATE....

when i said i drove it and it was still shuddering, and the ABS light was still on, i had only taken a short trip around the block twice...

i drove it to work today.... and although thee is still a slight shudder in the pedal, and a noticable vibration while braking... its not nearly as bad as it was before. and the ABS light has stayed off so far today.

i do expect it to come back on... and i do think the remaining shuddering is the back rotors...

i will be doing the rear rotors/pads this weekend.

as i mentioned before i have already done the rear ABS sensor, so i wont be taking it out and cleaning it...


if this doesnt work, and i dont have high hopes... the next step will be to replace the front ABS sensors.

I will be buying both at once, but i will only be installing the left side first. reason why is that most of the issues i have seen where the front ABS sensor ends up being the culprit.. its the left.

even though i do plan to replace both, and they are both prone to failure, i plan on just doing the left first and then driving it for a week to see what happens.

this is strictly just as a tool for those who are in the same boat as me, and are just too lazy or just dont care to go to the stealership or shop to get the codes ran.

i do understand that i could easliy go get the ABS codes ran, and probably immediatly find the problem, but i dont care lol.

so until then..

to be continued again.

[drown021]

Keep us updated.I'm having the same trouble. Here's two threads I've started already,lol.

http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=74613

Front end shudder while braking

[speepdaedeesi]

just a quick update, i left work a few times, got 4 or 5 miles of city driving in... and the ABS light didnt come back on.

on the way back i did try to make it come on.

i started waiting to brake... and braking harder. and sure enough it came on.

also, something i havent done yet that i didnt think of until reading another post is pulling the ABS fuse or relay.

im going to research it tonight to figure out where it is exactly (unless someone wants to tell me here) and im gonna pull it and drive it tomorrow and see what happens.

on a good note.... sold my big jeep on ebay. well its not sold yet, but i got my first bid yesterday, and its gonna sell reguardless. auction ends tomorrow night around 930 eastern time.

if anyone cares to watch.. i dont have the item number on hand, im at work and ebay is blocked, but just search ebay motors for "wrangler v8" and youll see a big blue one in fort drum. thats me.

anyways, ill keep you updated...

[Dnasty777]

An ABS light could also mean low brake fluid. Have you checked that?

[drown021]

Here was the culprit for my shudder/shake.Copy and pasted from from this and another forum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found the culprit! It was the rear drivers side causing the shake. It look's like the e-brake was slightly engaged (rusted in position) and either warped the rotor or was just sticking.One side of the e-brake pad was completely worn off.So to cap it off,front rotor/hub assemblies,bearings,front shocks,idler arm,rear rotors and pad's and no more shake. I had to douse the e-brake assembly (both sides) in lubricant and jiggle it back and forth to loosen it up also.All that time and money for one brake,lol. At least I don't have to worry about any of it for quite awhile. Just thought I'd update.
And thank you everyone for all the replies.

[speepdaedeesi]

brake fluid is topped off...

yeah im hoping its in the rear brakes...i drove it again today as well, and the shaking/pulsating is alot softer, but its still there. so hopefully the issue is with the rear.

rear brakes will be done either fri night or saturday morning.. ill keep you posted.

[speepdaedeesi]

I THINK I GOT IT!!

did the rear brakes today.

as i said before... after i did the front brakes, it still had the shudder and i could still feel a pulse in the brake pedal... and the abs light came on... but it got better after doing the front brakes. the shudder wasnt nearly as bad, and the feel in the pedal wasnt nearly as bad.

today i did the rears... the rotors were trash, just like the front rotors. they were also rusted on, which a big pry bar made it pretty easy to get them off...

one thing i noticed..... was that one of the sliders on the rear pass. caliper had gotten moisture into it, and the slide was reaaaaly rusty and had about 1/4 inch of built up crap on it... freezing it into place.

it took some force to get it off, i used a c-clamp to get it pushed down flush with the hole it slides into, then got the other slide and used it to push the rusty one through.

once i got it off, i tried soaking it in pb for a while, then brushing the crap out of it with a wire hair brush while i held it in place with a vise.

didnt work.

so i took a grinder to it, and ground it down smooth again.

i dont reccomend anyone else do it that way... go to napa and buy a new slide... but i did it that way because i just wanted to get it done..i tried not to grind too much off, but when i put it back in there was some noticable play in it. only time will tell if it ends up working out. its still way better than having a frozen slide, so im cool with it.

so... got it all back together..

took it around the block..

NO PULSE WHATSOEVER, NO ABS LIGHT, NO SHUDDER. THE BRAKES FEEL SOOOOO SMOOTH!!!

now.... i have to say, i didnt take it above 35mph... and i didnt leave my neighborhood. but.... i will be taking it to work tomorrow... so ill report back and let you know if its a closed case, or if the issues come back.

now... if your reading this because youre having the same shudder/abs light/brake pedal pulse issue...

remember, your problem might be different than mine... BUT, if you did what i did, which is do the brakes, take the front abs sensors out and clean them really good, do the back brakes, and replace or clean the rear abs sensor... if your still having issues, you need to move on to other parts of your abs system, or also look towards suspension or u-joints.

i think the most important thing is doing the front brakes yourself. if you tell your mechanic to clean the front abs sensors, theres no way to tell if he did it or not, because theres a dust shield right in front of it, and youd never know without taking your wheel/caliper/rotor/dustshield off and checking it yourself, which if you can do that, you should be doing your own brakes anyways.

its also important to do it yourself because your mechanic might forget or get too lazy to take the slides out and grease them. my front slides were really dry when i did them last week... and 3 of the 4 slides in teh rear today were bone dry as well, and one of them was quite possibly the problem that caused this entire ordeal. so remember when you do your brakes, clean the abs sensors with some brake cleaner, and take those slides out and grease em up real good.

im going to go ahead and say good luck to those who do have the shudder issue.. if i dont report back, its because IT WORKED!

:r ocker:

[speepdaedeesi]

well. sad to say.. abs light came on today.

brakes are still smooth as silk, but the light came on while i was driving about 45mph.

i think its either the front sensor/s, or the little white plastc gear looking thing.. ill post more info later, im still at work.

but no pulsing, no shaking, nothing. just the light.

i dont think its the system not resetting itself yet, because it stays off until i drive around 40mph

[Dnasty777]

Shoot man at least you got the shudder to go away.