Drilled Vs not Drilled Rotors.

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Old 01-10-2006, 09:05 AM
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Drilled Vs not Drilled Rotors.

Ok, I own a 2001 f-150 screw 4x4 5.4L and I'm having to replace all the rotors front and back, due to bad rust etc. But as I'm checking the web everyone is selling the "Drilled high performance"..... I'm not planning on racing this thing or put any high power performance parts on this thing, just ever day driving and light (maybe) dirt hauling. So what is the difference between the two rotors besides around a $100 bucks in cost?


 
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:51 AM
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You can buy them on ebay crossdrilled/slotted and they'll run you around $200 shipped, and they are zinc plated. The crossdrilled part aids in reducing heat, allow more air to escape as you brake. The slotted parts acts like a razor blade, keeping the pad surface fresh all of the time. You may have to do your brakes a little more often, especially with soft pads, but the increased capacity is well worth it. Lots of people will warn you of cracking rotors, but think about it like this. Mercedes and Porsche have been using drilled rotors on their highest performance cars since the 70's. If its good enough for $100,000 plus cars, would you see the value in adding it to your truck?
 
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Old 01-10-2006, 08:04 PM
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Cheap drilled rotors crack easily. You'd be surprised how big an improvement you can make with brakes with just a good set of pads and fresh fluid.
 
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 98Navi
You can buy them on ebay crossdrilled/slotted and they'll run you around $200 shipped, and they are zinc plated. The crossdrilled part aids in reducing heat, allow more air to escape as you brake. The slotted parts acts like a razor blade, keeping the pad surface fresh all of the time. You may have to do your brakes a little more often, especially with soft pads, but the increased capacity is well worth it. Lots of people will warn you of cracking rotors, but think about it like this. Mercedes and Porsche have been using drilled rotors on their highest performance cars since the 70's. If its good enough for $100,000 plus cars, would you see the value in adding it to your truck?
More air, yes maybe, but also less surface area, which equals a decrease in heat dissipation and contact area, and total rotor mass. Heat is decapitated via the rotor and hub for the most part, so you gain in one and lose in the other, any benefit!? Yup acts like a razor blade, or a block of cheese on a cheese grater, pads will stay fresh and wallet stay light. The Mercedes and Porsche car you mention, were "designed" with the drilled and slotted rotors in mind, thus bigger pads and rotors than you might typically has seen on the same car. Brakes are a little more elaborate than one might think.
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:57 PM
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OK,, All of what has been said is true except the "less surface area" part.

The depressions in drilled and sloted roters work in two different ways.
1. like gutters
2. like a radiator

When you apply your brakes the pads squeeze the rotors and create heat and gasses with the friction that slows down your vehicle. Excessive build up of these gasses between your pads and rotors act like a lubricant and make your brakes less effective, called glazing. This is where the drilled dimples and slots in rotors act like gutters. The depressions in the rotors allow the gasses to escape from the surfaces of the brake pads and allow them to continue to create the friction that slows down your truck.
The radiator effect is a result of the extra surface area of the rotor created by the depressions in the rotor. for any shooters out there it acts like a fluted barrel on a rifle. Extra surface area = extra contact with outside air that means quicker cooling. Which again reduces glazing and makes your rotors and pads last longer as well as perform more effectively.

Basically a good quality drilled and or slotted rotors are going to make your braking system more effective in day to day driving just like they do on race cars just to a less exagerated extent.

I hope this helps clear things up!

Cheers
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:00 PM
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Good post with great details

By the way, I have you beat in one of your sig lines. I have 2 baby seats in the back.
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:04 PM
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PS

The fresh fluid is the cheapest and easiest way to improve an aging vehicles brake performance. To avoid a long winded description this time here it is.
Brake fluid is designed not to compress for obvious reasons. It also absorbs moisture. Water compresses easily.
Bottom line.....

Old brake fluid which has a lot of time to absorb water makes your brake peddle feel spongy!
 
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:07 PM
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Thanks Navi,

I have #2 on the way also, gotta love 'em!!
Make it tough to mod the toys though,,,
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:00 AM
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Interesting thread on the subject by a crowd that knows what they are talking about: http://forums.corner-carvers.com/sho...2&page=1&pp=40
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:11 AM
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From that thread here is a pretty solid argument against drilled rotors. (the person quoted starts off talking about a military jet)


In my experience, in the highest performance brake application I've ever used, there were no drilled rotors to be seen anywhere. My old F-4 used solid rotors and lots of them.

Stacks of thirteen rotors and brake disks per main landing gear wheel were expected to do the job of hauling a Phantom weighing up to 38,000 lbs to a halt from speeds in the 180mph range. The drag chute was a plus, but it was not a given that you'd have one, so brake capacity was designed to do the job alone.

If drilled rotors would have been capable of doing the job, the ever weight concious aircraft industry would jump all over the drilled brake disk. Not just for old F-4s, but on every aircraft built since that timeframe.

Imagine the weight savings on a 747 if they used drilled disks, what with sixteen brake-equipped with something like at least six rotors per brake stack. Boeing would probably kill to be able to remove one hundred pounds from the dry weight of that aircraft and if drilled rotors were worth an advantage, you can bet your bippy that they'd have them on the latest model aircraft they build.

BTW

Next time you've got the opportunity to check out the underside of an Amtrak passenger car, take a look at the gigantic, vented brake rotor on each axle. Notice any drilled holes? That might be the absolute maximum braking system and they don't cross-drill them puppies, either.
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:34 AM
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Hey Aaron,
That linkizzle is full of a language I do not understandizzle.....

As for the pilot.. I can't see camparing a 38,000 pound airplane with dozens of herculean rotors that has hours or days between stops to let their brakes cool to a passanger truck whos brakes are absolutely miniscule by camparison and get heated up several times an hour or more.
Most of the brake specialist companies that make performance brakes for these trucks spacifically are either drilling or sloting them or both. With a little practical knowledge of what makes a set of brakes feel soft or perform less than optimally, my next brake job will include steel braided lines, drilled rotors, ceramic pads and brand new fluid.
My $.02
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by maddogrfc
Hey Aaron,
That linkizzle is full of a language I do not understandizzle.....
These guys were making fun of the way some others were talking on another forum. You really should have read past the first page. Maybe you would have learned something from a group with a large base of members that actually run their cars at the track.

And no, that doesn't just mean simple Autocrossing and it certainly doesn't mean the dragstrip.

Here is another tidbit for you. The introduction of holes in rotors had nothing to do with cooling. Absolutely nothing. They were put there to allow the gasses from the brake pads to escape. We no longer have this problem with modern pad materials.

Don't believe me? Maybe you will believe the major companies that actually design braking systems.

From Baer Brake Systems
What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?
In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!

However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.

Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.

Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.
Before you point out that they claim street pads still exhibit ‘outgassing’ you should let the rest of the sentence sink in:

"but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack."

That's right. Only when using that drilled, crack prone, rotor at racetrack temperatures.

The solution is to get better pads, not a set of rotors that will crack if you actually have to put them to serious use.

From Wilwood
Q: Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
A: Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.

Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications.
Yes, these manufacturers admit that they sell drilled rotors because they are "pretty" and that is what the street guys want.
 

Last edited by Aaron_j; 01-29-2006 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by maddogrfc
PS

The fresh fluid is the cheapest and easiest way to improve an aging vehicles brake performance. To avoid a long winded description this time here it is.
Brake fluid is designed not to compress for obvious reasons. It also absorbs moisture. Water compresses easily.
Bottom line.....

Old brake fluid which has a lot of time to absorb water makes your brake peddle feel spongy!

Wow, there bud, NO liquid compresses. Period. How do you think motors hyrolock? B/C the water won't compress. It's the whole principle behind everything hydraulic....

Now, that being said, brake fluid, being petroleum based, will not absorb moisture. Some moisture may get into the system, but it'll stay as seperate as the Valdez oil did in Alaska. I'm sure that the moisture leads to premature wear of parts and causes corrosion, but that's about it.
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:45 PM
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As stated in my first post I am aware of the reasons for drilling and slotting. Gas relief and cooling. Cooling not being the primary intention but is a simple byproduct of the process. More surface area = quicker cooling (my example being a vent ribbed or fluted barrel on a shotgun or rifle,, not making a direct comparison but a similar example of the same basic concept) I do not by any even remote implication race my truck but a couple of long windy mountain decents have taught me the value of cool brakes. As for the new brake pads not gassing up well that is a fact I was not aware of and I appreciate the enlightening. A result of my not keeping up on the new technology due to an active 2yr old.

As for the brake fluid being petroleum based.... Not so true.

I tried to make a pretty complicated concept simple....
The long winded version...

http://www.sdvsa.org/BrakeFluidFacts.htm

I didn't feel like typing it out so here it is!

Looks like we all learned something today. Thank the internet gods for this forum. This is definitely the kind of stuff I learn from a conversation with my wife.... Thanks guys!!!!

Cheers!
 
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by maddogrfc
A result of my not keeping up on the new technology due to an active 2yr old.
I know all about it...I have 3 boys ranging from 2 1/2 to 6 years.

Originally Posted by maddogrfc
As for the brake fluid being petroleum based.... Not so true.
I stand corrected. I always thought that it was petroleum based, but I was wrong. There's always a first time, I guess...
 


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