I've read all the previous posts I can handle about motor oils (interesting, to say the least), and I think I know all the arguments. That being said, the owner's manual for my 2002 F150 4x4, 5.4L engine, says that the motor oil has to meet the current Ford API rating (which is SL) and the Ford WSS-M2C153-H specification. A lot of oils meet the former, but only certain brands meet the latter (dino oils from Penzzoil and Valvoline....but not Castrol [Edit: Castrol web site not up to date; bottles of 5W20 in Wal-Mart indicate that the Castrol 5W20 does meet the -H specs]; the synthetic from Amsoil does meet the spec, but not Mobil1). All of those meeting the latter spec (WSS-.....) are 5W20 oils. Info is based on current info on manufacturer's web sites as of today 5/29/2002. Even though other brand/weight oils should work perfectly well, and might even be better depending on the climate, from Ford's point of view, couldn't they deny a warranty claim should you be using an oil that does not meet/exceed the WSS-M2C153-H spec?

Please, I don't want to start up another "your oil vs. my oil" debate. Truth is I'll probably go with 5W20 in the winter and 5W30 in the summer. My question is strictly concerning the interpretation of the WSS-M2C153-H spec, and Ford's legal base if you don't use an oil that meets the spec.

Thanks
ernie

PS Anyone have clue where I can find details of this WSS...specification (might help

 

Should a failure occur in your engine that can be directly traced to using an oil that does not meet the Ford spec, then yes, Ford could void your warranty. Say your radio breaks under warranty and you aren't using the correct oil - Ford cannot deny the warranty claim on the radio due to incorrect oil. The denial must be specifically tied to an incorrect oil being used. I think thats been the point of quite a few of us for a long time. As it stands now, the only oil that meets Ford's current spec is a 5w-20 grade oil.

That being said, I haven't switched from using 5w30 in my rig that Ford says can use the 5w20 oil.

Good luck.

 

I've heard of two occurrances of warranty denial based on the customer using the "wrong" oil. Here is one thread at F150online. I'll see if I can find the other.

 

I thought the only difference with 5w20 v.s. 5w30 is it's thinner and offers potentially better fuel economy.

I have no worries of such in my 98 4.6 so run Mobil1 5w30 & K&N oil filter.

 

p_ferlow: That's my understanding also. I went to the Valvoline web site and downloaded the data sheets on their dino oils: All-Climate motor oil (covers 5W30 through 20W50) and a separate one for All-climate 5W20. FWIW, the bullet description sections are essentially identical, except that in the 5W20 data sheet there is another line stating :"Reduced Burnoff: Formulated with advanced base oils that resist vaporizaton thus helping to reduce emissions". Does that mean it's not a feature of the rest of the all-climate viscosities? Don't know, just noting a difference in the data sheet descriptions. BTW, thanks Valvoline for making the data sheets available......seems not all vendors make this information readily accessible.

ernie

 

I contacted Chevron and supplied them with the Ford Spec. number and asked which oil met those requirements. Here is the engineers reply. (I'm leaving his name, address phone & fax number out so he doesn't get flooded with questions)


Our Chevron Supreme 5W20 would be the engine oil you are looking for to meet M2C 153H.

Supreme 5W30 also meets those Ford Specifications. And I would agree on a 5W30 for summer use in your location

 

added in edit:
This is an FYI of what Amsoil say's about the new Ford Spec.


AMSOIL XL-7500 Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil Is Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications:

API SL
FORD WSS-M2C153-H
ILSAC GF-3


You can read the rest of it here:

http://www.amsoil.com/products/xlm.html

 

Ford would have to prove that the oil was the direct cause of the problem for them to void the warranty. That would involve having the oil analyzed for performance failure. I've never heard of a dealership going to that much trouble to prove something. Besides, most don't know what oil analysis is.

 

That's very true about proving that the engine failure was oil related. That's why Quaker State has their 250,000 mile or 10 year warranty on their oil. They know that it will be mechanical failure before engine oil failure. Ford doesn't mandate a certain viscosity, they only recommend a viscosity. All Ford can do is mandate an oil that meets their spec.

 

The bottom line, this triton engine is manufactured to very tight tolerances. There is a reason why they say to use specific viscosities. There is no measurable difference between the 5 and 10 weight within the motor. Just use what the manuf says and no problems??????? I dont understand what the big debate is about. Im sure Ford knows more than we do about what is required in their engines......... just my 2cents

 

I have written this in other forums before so just for your information.

You can use 5W-30 no problem and Ford will NOT void your warranty. Reason - My Ford dealer only uses 5W-30 when changing my oil. Its on every work order I have. I even asked the dealer if it was a typo. They said no they just don't use 5W-20.

With that said and since my Ford dealer is using 5W-30 in my 01 4.2 even though the owners manual calls for 5W-20 means Ford does not have a leg to stand on should they try to void my warranty for using 5W-30.

 

we, also, don't use 5W20 at our dealership. The oil IS only for a slight increase in fuel economy....5W20 gets thinner when hot than 5W30. This, in my mind, is the biggest reason to not use it. Now, 10W30 is another story in cold climates, because dry startups become a problem as the 10W is thicker when cold as compared to 5W30. Camshaft bearing failures are common on OHC engines when 10W30 is used, which is why most production OHC engines recommend it. the two oil s are, in theory, the same viscosity when hot. A good rule of thumb is as follows:
-pushrod engine.....10W30
-OHC engine...........5W30

you will see that Ford follows suit with this, as most OHC engines went to 5W20 and the remainder stayed at 5W30.

 

Here it is
----------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 2001, Ford Global Technologies, Inc.
ENGINEERING MATERIAL SPECIFICATION
Material Name Specification Number
Date Action Revisions
2001 01 12 Revised Rev para 2, 3.2 & updated M. J. Riley
2000 04 10 Activated M. J. Riley
OIL, ENGINE, ILSAC GF-3, SAE 5W-20, WSS-M2C153-H
SERVICE FILL
1. SCOPE
This material specification defines the minimum acceptable performance requirements and
physical/chemical properties of engine oils to be used in Ford Motor Company vehicles.
2. APPLICATION
This material is used for lubrication of gasoline engines. This specification was released originally
for service fill engine oils meeting the 2001 model vehicle requirements. Sections titled QUALITY
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS, SUPPLIER'S RESPONSIBILITY, and APPROVAL OF MATERIALS
apply only to engine oils supplied directly to Ford Motor Company and it's affiliates.
3. REQUIREMENTS
Material specification requirements are to be used for initial qualification of materials.
3.1 QUALITY SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Material suppliers and part producers must conform to the Company's Quality System
Requirements.
3.2 PERFORMANCE
Shall be licensed to display the API Certification Mark and meet all the requirements of the
“ILSAC Minimum Performance Standard for Passenger Car Engine Oils GF-3” (October
2000) with the following exceptions:
3.2.1 This requirement changes the ILSAC GF-3 ASTM Sequence IIIF test performance
criteria to the following:
ASTM Sequence IIIE Test Performance shall meet
conducted double length all specifications of
(128 hrs) with no oil the 64 hr test with the
change during test. following changes:
Viscosity Increase at 40 °C 200% max
Average Piston Varnish 8.4 min
OR
ASTM Sequence IIIF Test Performance shall meet
conducted double length all specifications of
(160 hrs) with no oil the 80 hr test with the
change during test. following change:
Viscosity Increase at 40 °C 200% max
3.2.2 High Temperature Deposits, mg 30 max
(TEOST MHT-4)
3.2.3 ASTM Sequence VE meeting requirements of ILSAC GF-2 may be conducted to
replace the ASTM Sequence IVA and Sequence VG tests.
3.2.4 ASTM L-38 meeting requirements of ILSAC GF-2 may be conducted to replace
ASTM Sequence VIII.
All required engine tests shall be conducted in accordance with the most recently
approved procedures as described in ASTM Special Technical Publication 315
and the applicable ASTM Standards Research Reports and Information Letters.
All tests under surveillance by ASTM must be conducted using test equipment
monitored by and calibrated to the requirements of the ASTM Test Monitoring
Center.
3.3 PHYSICAL/CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
3.3.1 Copper Corrosion, max 1b (Dark Orange)
(ASTM D 130 or ISO 2160,
3 hrs at 100 °C)
3.3.2 Physical Appearance and Odor
Shall be clear and bright with no objectionable odor.
3.3.3 Contaminants
Shall be free of carcinogens, toxins, metals not removed in refining or from
previous use.
3.4 QUALIFICATION
It is the supplier's responsibility to have the technical evidence and documentation certifying
that a given formulation (base oil/additive combination) meets all requirements described in
this specification.
No base stock interchange (BOI) or viscosity grade read across (VGRA) is permitted to
approve engine oils to this specification.
The affected Ford Fuels and Lubricants Engineering activity reserves the right to request
certification documentation from any company claiming to meet this specification.
3.5 SUPPLIER'S RESPONSIBILITY
All materials supplied to this specification must be equivalent in all characteristics to the
material upon which approval was originally granted.
Prior to making any changes to the material originally approved under this specification,
whether or not such changes affect the material's ability to meet the specification
requirements, the Supplier shall notify the affected Purchasing, and Materials Engineering
activities (with reasons) of the proposed changes. Upon notification of the Company, further
instructions will be provided.
Note: Suppliers should be prepared to provide test data and samples demonstrating
compliance to this specification, if requested.
Substance restrictions imposed by regulations or Company direction applies to the
materials addressed by this document. The restrictions are identified in Restricted
Substance Management Standard WSS-M99P9999-A1.
4. APPROVAL OF MATERIALS
This specification is intended to define the performance and/or properties of finished parts or
systems of combined materials. An Engineering Material Approved Source listing is not applicable
for this specification. Product Engineering materials referenced in this document and/or the affected
engineering drawing, which require prior Engineering approval, are shown in the Engineering Material
Approved Source List under the specification cited.

 

ancient thread, but if I came in and found that's what they used, I'd make them change it and I'd likely never return to their service dept. ever again...

 

5w30 is not a problem in any engine that specifies 5w20, as long as the oil meets Ford specs.