Got the following DTC(S) and Freeze Frams Data. Looks like cam phasers to me, but why would both banks go out at the same time? Is there something else that I am overlooking that is common to both banks????
Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Make: Ford Model: F150 Year: 2004
VIN: 1FTPW12564KC93313
________________________________________
MIL: On
Diagnostic Trouble Codes
Generic Powertrain
P0011 Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 1)
P0021 Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 2)
P0345 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit (Bank 2)

Freeze Frame for DTC P0345
Fuel System Status Bank One Open Loop Fuel System Status Bank Two Not Reported
Calculated Load 19 % Coolant Temperature 187 F
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank One 0.00 % Long Term Fuel Trim Bank One 5.46 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank Two 0.00 % Long Term Fuel Trim Bank Two 7.02 %
Engine RPM 819 r/min Vehicle Speed 0 MPH
Ignition Timing Advance for #1 7.5 deg Intake Air Temperature 88 F
Air Flow Rate From Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.88 lb/min Absolute Throttle Position 15 %
B1S1 O2 Sensor Output Voltage 0.840 V B1S2 O2 Sensor Output Voltage 0.220 V
B2S1 O2 Sensor Output Voltage 0.830 V B2S2 O2 Sensor Output Voltage 0.270 V
B1S1 O2 Sensor Fuel Trim 0.00 %

 

@NKENN


I would be more cautious about jumping to "cam phaser' diagnosis. NOTE: P0345 has a distinct relationship to P0011 and P0021. The PCM must have reliable cam position readings in order to make a determination whether retard or advance with respect to crankshaft is correct. There are a litany of reasons why you can get a P0345 code - including stupid sounding things like "starter system circuit" or "dead / weak battery". I have even heard of cases of a bad diode in the alternator causing "noise" in electrical circuits that result in CPS error codes. The CPS sensors are very high impedance (not much current in the circuit) and sensitive to outside interference, such as voltage drop from starting - or ripple on electrical circuits.


I do notice from your freeze frame data, the P0345 occurred at or VERY near startup. [Was in Open Loop, ECT was 187º F. STFT was ZERO. RPM 819, Speed 0 mph, Throttle pos. 15%]

I would concentrate on removing the P0345 before looking any farther. While CPS sensors aren't very expensive, I highly doubt that it is a defective CPS sensor myself. Make sure ALL electrical connections are clean (with electrical contact cleaner), unplug and re-plug them all the way back to PCM, swap them. Make sure they aren't damaged or moved somehow nearer interference sources, check for battery / alternator symptoms and so forth.


Report back and let us know.

 

F150Torqued, Thank you for your reply, I searched for solutions for this problem before posting and your reply is, by far, the best explanation of these DTCs that I have seen. I was an electronic technician for forty years, and I understand what you said.
SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
The P0345 code has been present for well over a year, but the truck ran fine and my son-in-law (his truck) chalked it up to "bad alternator". Then, last Sunday the truck started running really rough, and I pulled the codes again and that is when I got the P0011 and P0021 codes.

I do have a couple of questions:
1. Would a bad sensor circuit on Bank 2 cause an over advance on Bank 1?

2. I don't have the equipment to check for noise on the alternator? Do you know where I might be able to have the alternator tested - dealership, etc???

Thank you very much for your response.

 

In fairness I can't take all the credit. I just use http://www.engine-codes.com. While I know many of the codes, I'm not good enough to remember all the full descriptions. lol. I do tap into the analytical and logical experience from an electronics engineering and computer programming background pretty often.


You ask:



^^^ Darned good question ^^^. All for which is beyond the level of my genius. I still believe the codes are too closely related to ignore a possible connection - until there is more diagnostic data. Did two cam phasers, or two VCT Solenoids fail simultaneously? Or did BOTH cam chains jump a tooth on the crank gear, or on each of two separate phasers at the same time??? (unlikely). Symptoms in electronic failures on the other hand are almost limitless. The crankshaft position sensor fault is the "single reference point" for the determination of a cam 'over retard' condition on both cams. While there was no P0335 code (Crankshaft Position Sensor Fault), I do note the causes of that code are almost identical to that of the CPS. Reviewing the wiring diagram reveal the CKP sensor is shielded (suggesting design consideration for sensitivity). And the CKP & CPS sensors both ground at the same spot (RR of engine compartment).


For some 'flaky' symptoms on my '04 5.4L, I removed the PCM, removed about 3 or 4 ground wires around that area and cleaned them with a brass steel brush, and cleaned and re-applied dielectric grease to all the three PCM Plugs. Might be a good (and totally inexpensive) exercise in your case.


And you ask:



I think Sears or Walmart or many similar stores can check battery and charging system good enough to catch a alternator problem that would cause your symptoms. RMS voltage output will suffer pretty badly with even 1 of 4 diodes bad.


Do you have scanner capability to read live data? If so I can suggest some parameter IDs related to cam advance to monitor. Otherwise. I would suggest perfoming the above items, clear codes, and drive a few drive cycles and see if they / or others / come back. And let us know it / what they are.

 

Auto parts stores all test batteries and alternators in the parking lot free of charge.

 

I am not sure that I trust Auto Parts stores to determine if an alternator has excessive ripple, especially when the alternator appears to be operating satisfactorily and keeping the battery fully charged. However, it seems that I read something similar to the following on another post and I would like to know if anyone has tried it, and, if so, did it work.


1. FULLY CHARGE THE BATTERY BY USING THE BATTERY CHARGER, IF NECESSARY
2. TURN OFF THE MIL (CHECK ENGINE LIGHT) using scan tool.
3. DISCONNECT THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR (NOT THE SINGLE WIRE CONNECTED TO (+) STUD) FROM THE ALTERNATOR TO EFFECTIVELY TURN OFF THE ALTERNATOR.
4. START THE ENGINE AND SEE IF MIL TURNS BACK ON.
5. IF THE MIL DOES TURNS BACK ON, THE PROBLEM IS PROBABLY NOT THE ALTERNATOR - IT IS NOT GENERATING.
6. IF THE MIL DOES NOT TURN ON - THE PROBLEM PROBABLY IS THE ALTERNATOR.

Does this sound like a feasible method to determine whether or not the alternator is causing a P0245 DTC?

 

In my diagnostics I place a lot of weight on "repeatability" of a DTC. Some may say you should fix the problem before resetting trouble codes. But after noting the code(s), grabbing freeze frame data and collecting all the information I can, including challenge of specific sensors or trying to force a change in their reading, I believe in resetting the code and see if the same one comes back.

While I have never tried the above "disabling" the alternator trick suggested, it is consistent with my methodology and does seem a feasible method to AT LEAST change something to see if it effects the P0345 DTC - (I assume "P0245" in your response was a typo). Also, you said in post # 3 "The P0345 code has been present for well over a year". So I'm assuming you would expect it to come back pretty quickly. Don't expect too know instantly because MANY codes register as "grey" or "pending" codes initially (I don't know about 0345) and many require some repeatability on multiple drive cycles before setting the MIL. Drive cycles can require soak time & drive distance / or reaching certain speeds. Finally - if the battery isn't fairly new or known healthy - I'm not sure a good charge would prevent a significant sag in voltage during starting (the time when a 0345 code supposedly is checked for by the PCM). A weak cell in the battery might be in play?

Let us know what you find.