Champion Plugs...Real Problem Or Not?

[jeffreygeorge]

I am having my plugs changed next week in my 2006 5.4 Screw(or after I run one more tank of gas with valve cleaner throught the truck). My mechanic is suggesting using the new design Champion plugs. I searched the forums somewhat and did not find a specific issue of problem using the champion over motorcraft. Does any one have an actual documented problem using champion plugs in the 3V 5.4L? By the way, the cost will be $590, the ford dealer wants $980 and warns that if a back plug breaks they will need to remove the cab...total of $2500. 2006 XLT SCREW, 5.4, 4X4, 3:73 Goodyear SA LT275/70R18 Pulling a Nash 22H

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[Bluejay]

Goodness! What are the labor rates? Mine were changed at the dealer for $325.

I would not take it to a dealer that thinks they have to remove the cab. That is ridiculous. Neither would I take it to a mechanic unless he has lots of experience with the removal and follows the TSB.

[jethat]

find a better dealer. A trained ford tech can get any plug out without removing the cab and $1000 dollars for a plug change is criminal.

[glc]

The jury is still out on the Champs. Some people are having longevity issues.

The going price at a Ford dealer seems to be in the $300 to $400 range, with an extra $80 per broken plug these days. That is parts AND labor - factory Motorcraft plugs.

[57 rag]

Okay.... aside from the pulg possibly breaking what is the hardest thing about changing these plugs?? I'm looking at the Champions as well.

[Quintin]

I've put Champions in a handful of 3Vs, and they all came back within two or three weeks with random misfire codes.

Figures. The only folks out there who have the initiative to design a mass produced, readily available one piece 3V spark plug (I know, I know, Brisk makes them too, they don't count) can't seem to figure out how to make the plug fire/operate properly in a 3V engine.

I heard a while back that NGK was working on a one piece 3V plug, don't know whatever became of that.

And yeah, anyone who says you have to pull the cab to get to the rear plugs in the event that one breaks, run away from them, 'cause they don't know WTF they're talking about. Lisle makes an awesome removal tool, for about $100 or so, that works like gangbusters to get the plugs out where there's porcelain still in them. There's another tool that's $60-70 that works well for removing just the ground shield if the porcelain comes out.

If someone's getting $600 to do these plugs...I'm shortchanging myself. We do them for about half of that, parts, labor and all. I don't remove cabs, engines, cylinder heads, or any of that other hokey business.

[Matts ford]

the plugs arent bad at all when they come out. the problems are with the first plug change, if you go with the motorcrafts and do follow the tsb and use nickel antiseize then you shouldnt have the same problem the next plug change or at least they wont be hard to get out if they do break. but the champions you dont have to worry about antiseize but you have to change them more often, yes they are warrantied, but what happens if one fails and takes a cat with it? thats on you. IMO do it right with the motorcrafts the first time.

[57 rag]

So let me ask you guys this, when they take out this plug and have this problem, does the plug turn as it normally would? I mean, when you turn the plug counter clockwise does it just loosen like regular but the tip is just stuck in there or can you feel you have a problem?

thanks

[Bluejay]

Originally Posted by 57 rag

So let me ask you guys this, when they take out this plug and have this problem, does the plug turn as it normally would? I mean, when you turn the plug counter clockwise does it just loosen like regular but the tip is just stuck in there or can you feel you have a problem?

thanks

The shank, the part below the threads snaps off and stays in the hole. That has to be retrieved. Have you seen the plugs? have you seen a broken one? If not, you need to use the search feature and do some reading and looking at pictures. Keep in mind, that originally, we were in unknown territory and a lot that was said was conjecture. It has evolved now , to the point there is much more success than failure with them. We now have tools we did not have at first.

[Bluejay]

I did a search for you. Here is some reading if you have not seen them.
Spark Plug Removal & Lisle Tool Tips
New method to extract porcelain from broken spark plugs
Spark Plug Change on 2006...Positive Results
$239 ROTUNDA TOOL NOT NEEDED!!!!!!!I spent $2.86

[Bluejay]

This shows how they can break:

http://www.brokensparkplug.com/

[57 rag]

Thanks a lot Bluejay... I have learned one thing for sure when doing searches. You are everywhere. Im new here and was already gonna email you. Anyway I did do a lot of searches prior to asking and have seen then pics. Sorry I wasnt around a comp, and you did those searches but thanks anyway. Im sure someone looking at this will greatly appreciate it. But I was asking about the feel when the problem occurs. I mean can you tell something is wrong when removing the plug?

thanks again

[Matts ford]

Originally Posted by 57 rag

Thanks a lot Bluejay... I have learned one thing for sure when doing searches. You are everywhere. Im new here and was already gonna email you. Anyway I did do a lot of searches prior to asking and have seen then pics. Sorry I wasnt around a comp, and you did those searches but thanks anyway. Im sure someone looking at this will greatly appreciate it. But I was asking about the feel when the problem occurs. I mean can you tell something is wrong when removing the plug?

thanks again

sometimes you'll feel resistance when they are ready to break. sometimes they will have no resistance what so ever when they break or are ready to break. and alot of times you'll hear them cracking as your taking them out. sometimes they'll have resistance and cracking and never break, but you never actually know until you get it out.

[jbrew]

Originally Posted by Quintin

I've put Champions in a handful of 3Vs, and they all came back within two or three weeks with random misfire codes.

Figures. The only folks out there who have the initiative to design a mass produced, readily available one piece 3V spark plug (I know, I know, Brisk makes them too, they don't count) can't seem to figure out how to make the plug fire/operate properly in a 3V engine.

I heard a while back that NGK was working on a one piece 3V plug, don't know whatever became of that.

And yeah, anyone who says you have to pull the cab to get to the rear plugs in the event that one breaks, run away from them, 'cause they don't know WTF they're talking about. Lisle makes an awesome removal tool, for about $100 or so, that works like gangbusters to get the plugs out where there's porcelain still in them. There's another tool that's $60-70 that works well for removing just the ground shield if the porcelain comes out.

If someone's getting $600 to do these plugs...I'm shortchanging myself. We do them for about half of that, parts, labor and all. I don't remove cabs, engines, cylinder heads, or any of that other hokey business.

I'd bet all the cookies in the cookie jar that this post ^^^^^ one ups your standard documentation, hell, I'll even throw in the crumbs. Seriously!

You would have to be completely goofy to run Champion plugs at this point. I thought that was great when Federal Mogul stepped up to the plate with their one piece design, it's really to bad it hasn't panned out.

To date, the Motorcraft is still best choice for the 3 V.

BTW - This thread is packed with good info

[code58]

=jbrew;3919391]I'd bet all the cookies in the cookie jar that this post ^^^^^ one ups your standard documentation, hell, I'll even throw in the crumbs. Seriously!

Brew- you are a HOOT! With 14,500 posts, you are a true asset to this Forum! $980. for a normal change on a set of 3V plugs? Wonder if they let those people out on 1 of them 4 hour passes very often. He made a wrong turn and ended up at the nut house!