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  #1  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:47 AM
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Vehicle: 1999 Ford F150
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Replace Ford 5.4L Coil-Over-Plug's with standard coils?

I've got a '99 Ford F150 with a 5.4L V8 that runs Coil-Over-Plug assemblies. My pickup has 180,000 miles on it, so I'm going to take the initiative and assume one or more of them will go out in the not-so-distant future. However, I don't want to have to spend $45/COP when I change them (or replace them more than once), so I'd like to replace them with standard coils. Even if I get 8 "standard" coils and mount them on the firewall it'll still be cheaper than getting new COP's. Also, with the right (hotter) coils will likely perform better than stock.

My '98 Ranger (that was wrecked and totaled) had a 2.5L 4-cylinder with 8 spark plugs and 2 coils, each having 4 plugs attached. This is where I'll start my investigation; mounting 2 coils would be easier than 8.

I'll likely need to find coils with the same primary impedance so it won't throw the ECU off. I wouldn't mind having coils that put out more spark power (would prefer it, actually). Does anyone know what the primary impedance is on the COP's?

Electrically 8 coils would likely be the simplest, since the engine already has 8 individual coils. Also I would surmise that 8 individual coils would last virtually forever. However, mechanically it may not be quite that easy. I could possibly mount 2 banks of 4 coils somewhere on the firewall.

What all should I look out for when doing such a conversion?
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2008, 12:52 PM
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Seems like a huge PITA especially since coil over plugs are far superior to just the standard coils and plug wires. you should just look on ebay for some coil over plug coils and buy all 8 for about 90-100 shipped. They are all essentially the same coil as they are all made in the same plant the only difference is that ford brands and other brands put their logo on it and bump the price right up.
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2008, 12:54 PM
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Good luck redesigning that ignition system. I would just buy the right cops on E-bay from that global company that sell the whole set fo under $100
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:09 PM
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coils

Not worth you will suffer in many other areas Fuel is the big one they last just about forever. You have to remember the lack of maint. they have already provided and money already saved. A wire set wont last that long.
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  #5  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jethat
Good luck redesigning that ignition system. I would just buy the right cops on E-bay from that global company that sell the whole set fo under $100
It wouldn't be a complete redesign. I'd basically be moving the COP's to the firewall and running wires to the plugs (except would be using individual "normal" coils instead of COP's).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotts2BMe
Seems like a huge PITA especially since coil over plugs are far superior to just the standard coils and plug wires. you should just look on ebay for some coil over plug coils and buy all 8 for about 90-100 shipped. They are all essentially the same coil as they are all made in the same plant the only difference is that ford brands and other brands put their logo on it and bump the price right up.
How are COP's "far superior" to standard coil and plug wires? I can see how 8 coils are better than 1 or 2, but how are 8 COP's better than 8 "normal" coils??
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead-227
How are COP's "far superior" to standard coil and plug wires? I can see how 8 coils are better than 1 or 2, but how are 8 COP's better than 8 "normal" coils??
With COP's you have the ability to dial in each cylinder separately for the best efficiency. Also with plug wires they loss alot of their efficiency through the wire, ie. the spark output at the plug will be alot less than it will be at the coil. It would also cost you more to do the conversion assuming you plan on using all new pieces.
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead-227
How are COP's "far superior" to standard coil and plug wires? I can see how 8 coils are better than 1 or 2, but how are 8 COP's better than 8 "normal" coils??
Gotts Know's - I'll add this -

COP Ignitions ARE a far superior and high tech design that showed up on Fords 97 5.4L power plant that now are used on ALL V8 modulars.

Getting rid of the plug wires not only saves money, it also improves the durability of the ignition system. No high voltage wires means no voltage leaks and no misfires due to "bad" plug wires. Using individual coils for each spark plug also means the coils have more time between each firing.

Increasing the "coil saturation" time (the time the voltage to the coil is on to build up its magnetic field) increases the coil output voltage at high rpm when misfire is most apt to occur under load.

COP ignition system engines delivers 28% more spark energy than earlier ignition systems. This improves combustion and reduces the risk of misfire with lean fuel mixtures (lean mixtures require more voltage to ignite reliably).

So you have a better idea? Your going to redesign it ehhh. - Good Luck with that

Last edited by jbrew; 02-01-2008 at 02:08 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrew

COP ignition system engines delivers 28% more spark energy than earlier ignition systems.
that i didn't know...
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2008, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotts2BMe
that i didn't know...
Yea, think of it this way - If you connect 8 plug wires together - it's nothing but a long a$$ extension cord.

Last edited by jbrew; 02-01-2008 at 04:51 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2008, 03:52 PM
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No, I'm not completely redesigning it. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm still keeping the overall design the same. I just want to find coils that can be mounted remotely that has the same primary characteristics. A coil is a coil, whether it's mounted remotely or directly on the plug. The only "disadvantage" in the system would be the addition of the plug wires vs the COP system. The system will still have the added coil saturation time that causes the increase in ignition power that COP's engines enjoy.

I would also think that the increase in spark output should be more than 28% since the load is spread out over 8 coils. Shouldn't it be 8x the power if it were in fact engineered correctly?

When did it become "acceptable" to spend over $100 for a less-than-basic tuneup??
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  #11  
Old 02-01-2008, 04:02 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something here.. In an electrical sense, how is a single COP different than a single standard coil? And I don't mean the entire system, the difference there is elementary. I mean component to component, how are COP's engineered differently than "standard" coils? The only difference I see is the elimination of the plug wires. Personally I'd much rather change 8 plug wires every once in a while than 8 more expensive COP's just as often. From what I have seen around this and other forums, the COP's don't add any longevity to the ignition system anyway.

Also, multiplying a part by 8 to get less than 30% gain in spark power (which doesn't really effect the system that much) seem like a pretty silly idea, doesn't it??
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead-227
Maybe I'm missing something here.. In an electrical sense, how is a single COP different than a single standard coil? And I don't mean the entire system, the difference there is elementary. I mean component to component, how are COP's engineered differently than "standard" coils? The only difference I see is the elimination of the plug wires. Personally I'd much rather change 8 plug wires every once in a while than 8 more expensive COP's just as often. From what I have seen around this and other forums, the COP's don't add any longevity to the ignition system anyway.

Also, multiplying a part by 8 to get less than 30% gain in spark power (which doesn't really effect the system that much) seem like a pretty silly idea, doesn't it??
You can't be serious..... - Nahhh.. I'll ignore that and try to help in another way. -

A good set of reliable COP's (1 year - lifetime guarantee) are only $10 - $11 a piece.

A normal tune-up is done around 60,000 miles. That doesn't include the coils. If your factory coils fail before 100,000 miles, it's usually because the owner has washed the motor in the past or the coils have been wet at some point - that shortens coil life.

Stop complaining about everything, just replace them - Don't screw with engineering, I don't think you know enough about it. It's not worth messing around with anyway. You could try after market coils that claim better results , like - Moto Blues from RPM outlet , but you really take your chances with the after market upgrades. There's been allot problems in the past.

Global Automotive has the best record as far as COP replacements for these ignition systems. It's $85 for a set of 8.

You'll learn more by using the search bar.


Last edited by jbrew; 02-01-2008 at 07:04 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:15 PM
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My COP's were all original except one (broke when the plug blew outtat the head!) and they were 8 YEARS OLD!!! Just replaced them about two weeks ago. I don't think trying to go through the trouble of mounting coils, routing plug wires, and never mind trying to run all of your low voltage leads to the desired location. I don't tink it's really worth the effort, I mean how are you gonna swap over to conventional coils for any less than a $100????? Even if you did, the next set of wires you did would easily throw you over that. Good luck man, but I think your taking a step backwards in technology.
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:38 PM
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why do you want to replace your coils? there is NO NEED to replace a coil with a tune up!! replace them when they QUIT WORKING! ive seen cops fail on brand new vehicles too so there is no preventative maintanence you can do. your no better off with new cops then you are with one that is 10 years old and still works....
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2008, 11:19 AM
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So in everyone's experience, which part of the COP's fail? Do the windings short? Does the spring melt? Does the boot corrode and allow the coil to arc to the cylinder head?
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:19 AM


 
 
 
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