Injectors
#2
11-06-2006, 06:55 PM
#4
11-06-2006, 09:38 PM
Im not sure, but I would say 24 or 26 sounds more like it though.
19 lbs injectors are only good for about 300 fwhp IIRC, which would mean those injectors would be maxed out from the factory (I wouldnt put it past ford, they pretty much did it with the 5.4 2v's) However there are quite a few people on here close to the 300 RWhp mark that I dont think have changed injectors...I dunno.
I wondered the same thing a couple days ago...
19 lbs injectors are only good for about 300 fwhp IIRC, which would mean those injectors would be maxed out from the factory (I wouldnt put it past ford, they pretty much did it with the 5.4 2v's) However there are quite a few people on here close to the 300 RWhp mark that I dont think have changed injectors...I dunno.
I wondered the same thing a couple days ago...
#5
11-06-2006, 10:57 PM
Procharger said that I wouldn't have to change anything on my truck with a stage 2 intercooler. That would have put me at 340 fwhp. I have the type 3 19's - I didn't expect that much difference from my stock 19's, big difeerence with the four hole spray pattern- all around.
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
#6
11-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by jbrew
Procharger said that I wouldn't have to change anything on my truck with a stage 2 intercooler. That would have put me at 340 fwhp. I have the type 3 19's - I didn't expect that much difference from my stock 19's, big difeerence with the four hole spray pattern- all around.
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
Hmmm....I guess I was just making a comment off of the little I knew
Didnt know there was that much difference between versions...
#7
11-06-2006, 11:16 PM
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#8
11-07-2006, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrew
Procharger said that I wouldn't have to change anything on my truck with a stage 2 intercooler. That would have put me at 340 fwhp. I have the type 3 19's - I didn't expect that much difference from my stock 19's, big difeerence with the four hole spray pattern- all around.
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
With the three stage intercooler I would have had to make a big jump to 54's
It's really the exact same way a "dry" nitrous kit works, except they use a solenoid instead of an FMU. But they achieve the same effect.
#9
11-07-2006, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by jbrew
That's what they said, I checked , it says that on there site aswell-
Mann, I like those rims Bartk1 . I just purchased some newer stock aluminuns for my 98 because I couldn't find any out there that I liked - didn't see any like the ones on your truck - awesome..
Mann, I like those rims Bartk1 . I just purchased some newer stock aluminuns for my 98 because I couldn't find any out there that I liked - didn't see any like the ones on your truck - awesome..
Thanks for the comment. Ultra Magnum 50/51's. Very affordable rims too.
#10
11-07-2006, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by tritonpwr
That's because you would use an FMU to jack pressure up so your 19's put out more go juice. But you can't take that very far. Very soon, no amount of raised pressure will be enough and you have to go up in injector size.
It's really the exact same way a "dry" nitrous kit works, except they use a solenoid instead of an FMU. But they achieve the same effect.
It's really the exact same way a "dry" nitrous kit works, except they use a solenoid instead of an FMU. But they achieve the same effect.
Geez , that don't seem like the right way to go about - Im waiting this time , until I can get eveything at once - just sold the procharger I bought off ebay earlier this year - never even bolted it up. Hated to sell, it was a big piece of the puzzle , need to other mods first (tranny,rearend-etc.) wasn't ready for it - freakin impulse buy lol, it was a good deal and it looked good. My trans is going totally south , that'll cost me..
#11
11-08-2006, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bartak1
Im not sure, but I would say 24 or 26 sounds more like it though.
19 lbs injectors are only good for about 300 fwhp IIRC, which would mean those injectors would be maxed out from the factory (I wouldnt put it past ford, they pretty much did it with the 5.4 2v's) However there are quite a few people on here close to the 300 RWhp mark that I dont think have changed injectors...I dunno.
I wondered the same thing a couple days ago...
19 lbs injectors are only good for about 300 fwhp IIRC, which would mean those injectors would be maxed out from the factory (I wouldnt put it past ford, they pretty much did it with the 5.4 2v's) However there are quite a few people on here close to the 300 RWhp mark that I dont think have changed injectors...I dunno.
I wondered the same thing a couple days ago...
#12
11-08-2006, 01:35 PM
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#13
11-08-2006, 02:29 PM
Injector flow ratings are usually rated at 40 psi fuel pressures.
Changing the design for the same flow rating does not change the flow rating, only the spray pattern and quality.
In blower use, with an FMU, the injectors' pressure is raised to make them flow more fuel but there is a limit to how far this can be taken before the next larger injector flow rate must be considered.
The reason is the operating pulsewidth gets near 90% and/or the pump volume declines, the flow begins to max out for volume besides the possibility of the injectors sticking open not being able to close against the higher pressure once they are opened..
If you look at injector charts of flow vs pressure, it will be seen that the 19 size can be made to flow equaling a 21 to 24 injector size by raising the fuel pressure into the 60 psi range. The injector sizes are able to overlap when FMU control is used, within limits.
There are other factors that have to be considered along with this.
The fuel pump volume goes down as it's operating pressure is forced upward so the volume to feed the engine may drop to low, running into a lean condition even though the injectors are able to pass the fuel. This requires a larger fuel pump volume flow capacity.
Bottom line is the fuel delivery has to be engineered for the expected HP. Going too large with injector size only creates other problems.
Example******************************************* ******
Faster,... going to 30 lb injectors just because of cost is not engineering to fit the application on a 330cu/in engine. You don't have enough mods to justify them.
19s at 60 psi will support about 350 hp at a BSFC of .50.
30s at 'regular 40 psi' will support 460 hp at BSFC of .50.
Would you not think you kinda over did it abit just because you got them at a better price?
Changing the design for the same flow rating does not change the flow rating, only the spray pattern and quality.
In blower use, with an FMU, the injectors' pressure is raised to make them flow more fuel but there is a limit to how far this can be taken before the next larger injector flow rate must be considered.
The reason is the operating pulsewidth gets near 90% and/or the pump volume declines, the flow begins to max out for volume besides the possibility of the injectors sticking open not being able to close against the higher pressure once they are opened..
If you look at injector charts of flow vs pressure, it will be seen that the 19 size can be made to flow equaling a 21 to 24 injector size by raising the fuel pressure into the 60 psi range. The injector sizes are able to overlap when FMU control is used, within limits.
There are other factors that have to be considered along with this.
The fuel pump volume goes down as it's operating pressure is forced upward so the volume to feed the engine may drop to low, running into a lean condition even though the injectors are able to pass the fuel. This requires a larger fuel pump volume flow capacity.
Bottom line is the fuel delivery has to be engineered for the expected HP. Going too large with injector size only creates other problems.
Example******************************************* ******
Faster,... going to 30 lb injectors just because of cost is not engineering to fit the application on a 330cu/in engine. You don't have enough mods to justify them.
19s at 60 psi will support about 350 hp at a BSFC of .50.
30s at 'regular 40 psi' will support 460 hp at BSFC of .50.
Would you not think you kinda over did it abit just because you got them at a better price?
#14
11-08-2006, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluegrass
Injector flow ratings are usually rated at 40 psi fuel pressures.
Changing the design for the same flow rating does not change the flow rating, only the spray pattern and quality.
In blower use, with an FMU, the injectors' pressure is raised to make them flow more fuel but there is a limit to how far this can be taken before the next larger injector flow rate must be considered.
The reason is the operating pulsewidth gets near 90% and/or the pump volume declines, the flow begins to max out for volume besides the possibility of the injectors sticking open not being able to close against the higher pressure once they are opened..
If you look at injector charts of flow vs pressure, it will be seen that the 19 size can be made to flow equaling a 21 to 24 injector size by raising the fuel pressure into the 60 psi range. The injector sizes are able to overlap when FMU control is used, within limits.
There are other factors that have to be considered along with this.
The fuel pump volume goes down as it's operating pressure is forced upward so the volume to feed the engine may drop to low, running into a lean condition even though the injectors are able to pass the fuel. This requires a larger fuel pump volume flow capacity.
Bottom line is the fuel delivery has to be engineered for the expected HP. Going too large with injector size only creates other problems.
Example******************************************* ******
Faster,... going to 30 lb injectors just because of cost is not engineering to fit the application on a 330cu/in engine. You don't have enough mods to justify them.
19s at 60 psi will support about 350 hp at a BSFC of .50.
30s at 'regular 40 psi' will support 460 hp at BSFC of .50.
Would you not think you kinda over did it abit just because you got them at a better price?
Changing the design for the same flow rating does not change the flow rating, only the spray pattern and quality.
In blower use, with an FMU, the injectors' pressure is raised to make them flow more fuel but there is a limit to how far this can be taken before the next larger injector flow rate must be considered.
The reason is the operating pulsewidth gets near 90% and/or the pump volume declines, the flow begins to max out for volume besides the possibility of the injectors sticking open not being able to close against the higher pressure once they are opened..
If you look at injector charts of flow vs pressure, it will be seen that the 19 size can be made to flow equaling a 21 to 24 injector size by raising the fuel pressure into the 60 psi range. The injector sizes are able to overlap when FMU control is used, within limits.
There are other factors that have to be considered along with this.
The fuel pump volume goes down as it's operating pressure is forced upward so the volume to feed the engine may drop to low, running into a lean condition even though the injectors are able to pass the fuel. This requires a larger fuel pump volume flow capacity.
Bottom line is the fuel delivery has to be engineered for the expected HP. Going too large with injector size only creates other problems.
Example******************************************* ******
Faster,... going to 30 lb injectors just because of cost is not engineering to fit the application on a 330cu/in engine. You don't have enough mods to justify them.
19s at 60 psi will support about 350 hp at a BSFC of .50.
30s at 'regular 40 psi' will support 460 hp at BSFC of .50.
Would you not think you kinda over did it abit just because you got them at a better price?
When you run a turbo car, pushing some serious HP, you find out real fast that you can actually move more fuel and support more more HP with a lower fuel pressure!!! Once you go over around 50-55psi, you start seeing diminishing returns. Raising pressure causes the motor to actually run leaner. It's very odd, but very true.
Think about it. Your fuel pump can move, say 400lph at 35psi, 350lph at 40psi, 250lph at 50psi, 150lph at 60psi, etc. The higher the pressure, the harder the pump works, the less volume it can move. Same way a pressure washer works. A open hose can move 5 gallons per minute at .2 psi at the mouth. A pressure wash can move 1.7 gallons per minute, but the pressure is 2000 psi. Pressure rises, volume falls.
#15
11-08-2006, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Faster150
yeh my tranny started makin its trip down to mexico last year lol and its. not daiy drivable anymore. i just drive it on weekends now.
Must be nice!!! Daughter is licensed, have to find her a fairly reliable truck - little ranger or something. So I still drive the truck everyday. I plan on getting another 150 a couple years old or something so I can put the 98 in the barn and go threw the chassy when work picks up.
Last edited by jbrew; 11-09-2006 at 11:25 PM.