Wow, there seems to be some serious problems with the 2000's and starters.

Mine has done the same thing.. been through 3 starters, and had the flexplate replaced once already due to worn teeth. I have the transmission off for a rebuild and upon checking the flexplate the teeth are worn again in a few places... So looks like there will be a new one going in before the tranny install.

As for bashfullfun, if your solenoid isn't shutting off it appears to be sticking. Have you tried manually jumping the terminals on the solenoid to bypass it and see if it works that way?

And if the starter is spinning without turning the motor then you prob have a bad flexplate too.

- Erik

 

Wow - old post revived. Earlier FoMoCo starters were not very well designed against corrosion. Forget when we put in sealed versions into the 4.6/5.4's but should have been around 2000/2001. Aftermarket starters are not well designed for this environment either if you go that route. Starter locations are not corrosion friendly. If you continue to get a starter to mill with several new starters it is possible there might be an alignment problem between the flywheel and starter. And this is not easily verified on a vehicle and really there is not a procedure to verify - so you might be sol.

The only other thing could be a weak battery - but I really doubt it since it sounds like a well used vehicle. If you wanted to try a few things here is what I would suggest (you already did the starter route so I won't go there unless you never bought an OEM starter - if you didn't, let me know what year and engine your truck is and make sure you purchase the latest starter motor for that design - a dealer could be holding back older stock - they are not suppose to but happens). You could try replacing/upgrading the wire size between the starter relay and the starter ignition terminal. Replacing the ignition start fuse (might be degraded).

Sounds like the main starter B+ circuit works since when it does engage everything works fine.

For the guy who's starter stays engaged (called starter run-on) after vehicle starts is very likely a starter issue also. There are several manufacturing defects that can cause this. Corrosion can be an issue also. If replacing starters does not solve the problem, then this could be a battery/starter B+ cable issue. In this case, the starter can engage the flywheel at full strength and create a spine lock with the flywheel. Normally the starter begins to spin/energize before this condition can occur. If there is not enough battery power to initially start cranking the flywheel then a spine lock can occur. The only way to break the spine lock is overdrive the starter and the flywheel will throw the pinion back into the starter. This naturally occurs anyway, but a spine lock condition will require a higher rpm and longer engine run to correctly operate. This doesn't really hurt the starter since there is an internal clutch that disengages the starter motor. What does happen is the starter will continue to draw current until the pinion is released. So after a really long period, it could burn up the starter. I wouldn't want an overspin condition to last more than 30 seconds often.

Edit: I should make a comment on aftermarket components. Alot of times the components are sold to aftermarket companies from OEM when said components do not meet testing requirements - but are deemed non-scrap value. Ford could have placed a large run of starters with a known problem and the aftermarket world didn't fix it correctly. Scrap starters are usually torn down by aftermarket and tempt to repair the problem. Most of the time it is corrected but sometimes not. Other aftermarket companies do make their own components but obviously do not meet all OEM requirements which are really strict to satisfy the customer diversity.

 

Thanks for the info Stormsearch ,

I'm pretty sure every time the starters been replaced on mine it's usually been with the cheapest one at the local Advance Auto, so since I'm replacing the flywheel while the trans is out, maybe ill switch to an OEM starter as well.

Would you know what the current part number is for the factory replacement starter on a 2000 with a 5.4?

Thanks in advance,

- Erik

 

Hey Erik,

Use service p/n 9L3Z-11002-A*

* is a wildcard and I show level B currently but level A is fine. Most of the changes done in recent years mainly has to do with water drain tubes affected by the Mustang usage.

Try ordering thru Tasca or Tylus and you should get a better price than your local unless they do the install. Also, they will be able to confirm the part number.

I just checked Tasca real quick and they show a different part number for the 05 - 07MY - Let me verify and get back to you.

Edit: The 9L3Z is the part number you want (it might be different number the dealer will provide but this one simply has a different type or number of drain tubes on it - nothing else different). This way, it will be the most recent design and built by Ford. Verified that it will drop right in. Good luck.

 

Thanks for your help Stormsearch.

I'll definitely be buying the new starter from Tasca as they have already helped me out with parts for my transmission.

Hopefully the new starter and flywheel will fix this problem for me permanently.

Thanks again,

- Erik

 

I'm resurrecting a VERY old thread here. I am working on my 2001 Lightning. I just reinstalled the engine after pulling it for a rebuild last fall. Anyway, nothing has been replaced and everything has gone back together the way it was taken apart. I have very meticulously inspected the flexplate for any signs of damage and found none. I am having the same issue that the rest of the members have been having, the only difference is that when i pulled the engine last fall, the starter NEVER milled the flexplate, but now that is it back in the truck, it will ONLY mill the flexplate. I have tested the battery (good), firewall mounted solenoid (good), starter mounted solenoid (good), the starter itself (good), and all the wiring going from the battery to and thru the FW solenoid, down to the Starter solenoid with no issues. Just to be safe, I even replaced the starter with a brand new unit from NAPA with no luck.

Last week I pulled the solenoid off the starter to manually engage the bendix to the flexplate just to be sure that they would actually mesh, and they will. I have been puzzled by this issue and am quickly running out of options.

I just got off the phone with a mechanic buddy of mine who said he ran across this same issue back in tech school on a Super Duty equipt with the 5.4L engine and the issue ended up being that apparently there is a specific torque sequence in which these starters are supposed to be bolted to the bellhousing in, and after that happened, his issue went away. Of course, he couldn't remember the sequence.

I have access to All Data and could find no information on any such a sequence in that program or around the web..... Does anybody happen to have any insight or possibly this "elusive sequence" they could pass along my way? This truck has been ready to fire now for over two weeks and I just can't do it and I'm tired of it being in my garage. Haha. Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated. Thank you.

--Ryan

 

Never heard of a torque sequence for the starter. And no where in the manual does it state that. I can't think of how sequencing the mounting bolts would have any affect on the starters engagement to the flywheel. It's either mounted or it's not.

No possible way the flexplate was bent during the engine work? Doesn't take much to bend them, especially if you leave the tranny in during the swap. Original flexplate? Your sure the wiring is correct at the starter including all grounds? Just trying to think of things here... Since none of this was an issue before, something has changed. I'm thinking if you manually engaged it just fine then something may be crossed with wiring at the solenoid or relay, something.. Not allowing the starter to fully engage or causing it to start spinning before it makes contact with the flywheel, which bumps it off.

I have done swaps on the 5.4, owned 3 of them and changed a few starters, never had to shim them or follow any torque sequence and with no issues. On 98, 99 and 00 vehicles. Something is faulty..

 

I agree, the ford starter either lines up or it dont. Never had to shim or torque sequence one unlike the earlier GM starters.

You might try having someone start the truck for you while you watch from below with the flywheel cover removed. Not only can you see the starter engage and disengage, but you will be able to see if your flexplate runs true. With the truck running the flexplate will wobble back and forth like a bent rim on your old bicycle if its bent and or cracked. Just sayin .........

 

The flexplate was removed as soon as the engine came out of the truck and I laid it on the ground to make sure it wasn't warped during my inspection of it. Plus, even if it was warped, then you'd think that there would be at least one spot on the flexplate where it would engage (b/c part of it would be closer than the rest). It is the original flexplate, and I have quadruple checked the starter wiring and it is correct. This is a time where I wish I had a speed camera at my disposal. I could video tape the starter kicking out and be able to watch frame by frame when the starter gear startes spinning. Looking at it with the naked eye just looks like it starts spinning as soon as it come out, b/c it happens so fast.

I had always thought it was a "bolts up or doesn't" thing too, but my buddy was telling me that there is the slightest amount of play when you set the starter into the bellhousing before your three bolts are tight. I'm not saying he's 100% right, just goin off what he says.
I have a remote start switch that I have been using so that I can lay underneath the truck and watch the action of the starter while bumping the truck. The starter kicks out and it spins, but it NEVER engages the flexplate, so there's no way to tell if it is turning true or not. Without the starter gear driving the flexplate, it will not spin. I would LOVE to be able to check for this issue and that would mean that the starter is engaging and turning the plate.

--Ryan

 

Have you rotated the engine by hand since it was re attached to the transmission? You could also measure the distance from the flywheel to the starting mounting surface, turn it by hand and measure again. How's your voltage at the battery? Test it under starting load also. Test at the solenoid...

Also, if you are seeing the starter gear spin because like you said, it happens so fast... that would indicate a problem since the starter should not engage until it makes contact with the flywheel. Anything before that would cause milling. Hate to say this also, but it's hard to trust a reman starter out of the box these days.

 

Man, you got a tough nut to crack! I wish you good luck and hope that when you find out what's going on that you share the solution with the rest of us.

 

Yes, I have rotated the engine by hand since its been on the trans. Battery voltage is 13V (I recharged it a coupla nights ago)

I hear ya on trustin a new starter.... I'm starting to think that maybe something IS indeed wired wrong. gonna undo all the wiring and start over from scratch. Wish I could do it today, but I'm bedridden with now with sickness.

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm SO anxious to get this massive ball of fun back on the road. the weather around here is gettin better by the day and I'm really jonesin'. Trust me, as SOON as I get it figured out, I'll be throwin it up here in big, bold letters. lol

--Ryan

 

Just a wild @ssed guess here but, do you think it's possible that the flexplate is on there backwards and maybe offset away from the starter gear????
I know you took the solenoid off the truck and tried it manually to make sure it meshed with the flexplate teeth but what if the solenoid does'nt push it out that far ?

Like I said just thinking out loud here cuz I'm stumbed big time. Good luck!

 

Good thoughts, but i've checked the flexplate positioning to make sure its not on backwards and...... its not. and when I pulled the bendix out manually, I didn't take it all the way out just in case, and it still meshed.

 

I don't think the torque converter would mount if it were backwards, thought about that for a second myself, as maybe the reason the starter gear was not reaching the flex plate. But don't think it would mount the other way. Also, the other way would put the flex plate teeth rubbing the back of the block I would think.

The last guy we helped with a similar starter issue after his swap ended up being an improperly located ground. If you could at all explain in detail how you have it wired or even better have a pic.. I could tell you whether it is right or not.

Get better man, I know the nasty is going around. Lot's of people on this side with chest and sinus colds.