04-13-2015, 12:49 PM
Last edit by: IB Advertising
Do you need to fix a spark plug blow out? Forum members suggest various methods to fix the problem. The methods include:
Read the full discussion below to find out the preferred methods.
Read the full discussion below to find out the preferred methods.
living with ford spark plug blow out problem
#497
04-17-2015, 08:53 AM
4.6 and 5.4 spark plug thread stript
This is a thread I am starting to have a collection of ideas on what to do if you have a spark plug blow out and preventive methods. If you have had a blow out please list the particulars in one of the many threads below:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1
Please only post in this thread if you have something to add about what to do about this problem. (we already know FoMoCo sucks)
If you have blown a plug I'm sure your very angry and if you read the threads above, there are many others that feel the same way you do. But it's time to deal with reality, Ford screwed up on the spark plug head design for the trition engine 1997 to 2003 , Whether you have the old style plug with 3/8" of thread or the new style 3/4" of thread you still only have 5 or 6 threads in the cylinder head holding the plug in. There is a good chance a plug will work it's way loose sometime during the motors lifetime from engine vibration.
If you want to argue about percentages please do it on one of the threads above there are many arguments there already. It doesn't matter how many engines this happens to ..... It has happened to you and your looking for help. This thread is to inform people about their options if or when it happens to them.
I made the mistake of paying a ford dealer $1700.00 to remove one head and install one insert... because I wasn't informed.
PREVENTIVE MEASURES:
One of the easiest: things you can do is listen to your motor when it's idling , prior to blowing my plug I heard a ticking sound like a valve lifter. If you read the threads above you will read that alot. You will also read how the person heard a slight exhaust leak. This sound, is one of the spark plugs worked loose and is vibrating up and down in the threads as the piston sucks and exhausts. There is a good chance that the threads are already slightly damaged. I wouldn't torque this plug to the max spec... maybe something a little less than max.
you need the correct tools to check your plugs , a deep socket like this:
Snap-on deep spark plug socket # S9720KA
Don't use a regular spark plug socket.
when you are tightening the plugs, if you don't have a extra long socket, the socket with a extension might bind against the spark plug casing wall and you think the plug is tight when it's not.
and a short handle (clicking type) lb/in torque wrench.
( the torque for this plug is 7-14 lb/ft or 84-168 lb/in )
Always work on a cold engine.
If you have a blown plug you have the following choices:
If somebody tells you they can re-thread it, save your money... your setting yourself up to be stranded again in the future. That is totally unreliable.
a NEW MOTOR, here is a link:
http://shopping.netledger.com/app/si...&category=2005
Just remember you will be installing a new motor with the same poorly designed heads that got you into this mess.
a STEEL INSERT here is a link to a insert kit:
http://www.timesert.com
the kits cutting tool/counter bore makes the insert flush with the cylinder head and the insert is the bevel seat for the spark plug.
Heli coils are available but they are not as reliable as a insert.
Then there is replacing the head. I don't have any links for this but I am sure any ford dealer would be glad to do that for you as the drool drips from his mouth. your talking 3500 to 5000 dollars. And when it's done.. the heads have the same 5 threads holding the plugs in so you have the same potential for a blow out.
I have never installed the bigserts but they look like the best option to me. I like the way they permanently self lock into the head the first time you install the spark plug. I would like to hear from anyone that has used this product.
right now we have cylinder heads with the spark plug hole as follows:
bevel seat, 3/8" of no thread then 3/8" of thread which the old plug with 6 threads screws into.
so, if and when we blow a plug , when you remove the head we do all 4 holes with a 3/4" long insert like to the ones shown in the link above.
the insert will be threaded into the 3/8" of no thread area and the 3/8" of the damaged thread area . That would make for a strong reliable mod.
The installation kit# 5141 costs-> $127.00
each insert# 51459 costs-> $7.57
these #'s are for a 1998 ford 5.4L engine.
*update* here is a link to me installing the big sert in all 8 spark plug holes. (lots of pictures)
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gobingo/index.htm
If anyone wants to email me direct --> donswr@hotmail.com
GOOD LUCK !
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1
Please only post in this thread if you have something to add about what to do about this problem. (we already know FoMoCo sucks)
If you have blown a plug I'm sure your very angry and if you read the threads above, there are many others that feel the same way you do. But it's time to deal with reality, Ford screwed up on the spark plug head design for the trition engine 1997 to 2003 , Whether you have the old style plug with 3/8" of thread or the new style 3/4" of thread you still only have 5 or 6 threads in the cylinder head holding the plug in. There is a good chance a plug will work it's way loose sometime during the motors lifetime from engine vibration.
If you want to argue about percentages please do it on one of the threads above there are many arguments there already. It doesn't matter how many engines this happens to ..... It has happened to you and your looking for help. This thread is to inform people about their options if or when it happens to them.
I made the mistake of paying a ford dealer $1700.00 to remove one head and install one insert... because I wasn't informed.
PREVENTIVE MEASURES:
One of the easiest: things you can do is listen to your motor when it's idling , prior to blowing my plug I heard a ticking sound like a valve lifter. If you read the threads above you will read that alot. You will also read how the person heard a slight exhaust leak. This sound, is one of the spark plugs worked loose and is vibrating up and down in the threads as the piston sucks and exhausts. There is a good chance that the threads are already slightly damaged. I wouldn't torque this plug to the max spec... maybe something a little less than max.
you need the correct tools to check your plugs , a deep socket like this:
Snap-on deep spark plug socket # S9720KA
Don't use a regular spark plug socket.
when you are tightening the plugs, if you don't have a extra long socket, the socket with a extension might bind against the spark plug casing wall and you think the plug is tight when it's not.
and a short handle (clicking type) lb/in torque wrench.
( the torque for this plug is 7-14 lb/ft or 84-168 lb/in )
Always work on a cold engine.
If you have a blown plug you have the following choices:
If somebody tells you they can re-thread it, save your money... your setting yourself up to be stranded again in the future. That is totally unreliable.
a NEW MOTOR, here is a link:
http://shopping.netledger.com/app/si...&category=2005
Just remember you will be installing a new motor with the same poorly designed heads that got you into this mess.
a STEEL INSERT here is a link to a insert kit:
http://www.timesert.com
the kits cutting tool/counter bore makes the insert flush with the cylinder head and the insert is the bevel seat for the spark plug.
Heli coils are available but they are not as reliable as a insert.
Then there is replacing the head. I don't have any links for this but I am sure any ford dealer would be glad to do that for you as the drool drips from his mouth. your talking 3500 to 5000 dollars. And when it's done.. the heads have the same 5 threads holding the plugs in so you have the same potential for a blow out.
I have never installed the bigserts but they look like the best option to me. I like the way they permanently self lock into the head the first time you install the spark plug. I would like to hear from anyone that has used this product.
right now we have cylinder heads with the spark plug hole as follows:
bevel seat, 3/8" of no thread then 3/8" of thread which the old plug with 6 threads screws into.
so, if and when we blow a plug , when you remove the head we do all 4 holes with a 3/4" long insert like to the ones shown in the link above.
the insert will be threaded into the 3/8" of no thread area and the 3/8" of the damaged thread area . That would make for a strong reliable mod.
The installation kit# 5141 costs-> $127.00
each insert# 51459 costs-> $7.57
these #'s are for a 1998 ford 5.4L engine.
*update* here is a link to me installing the big sert in all 8 spark plug holes. (lots of pictures)
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gobingo/index.htm
If anyone wants to email me direct --> donswr@hotmail.com
GOOD LUCK !
Haven problems with striping threads, no problem take it to your local welding place ,this is what I do for living about $240.00 to repair K&K WELDING LLC Austin TX ,insert come apart when you over torque them ,welding is the best way .
#498
04-27-2015, 05:18 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Southern Indiana
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New Ford Owner
HI. I'm new to the Ford Motor Company products as well as new to the forum. I just bought a 99 F350 with the 6.8 V10. I thought I was getting a good deal on the truck, but now I'm not so sure.
Anyway, the truck had a misfire on one of the cylinders. It would shudder and cut out a little at the bottom of every gear with light to moderate acceleration. The code reader was showing a misfire on cylinder #3. I then performed some steps to troubleshoot the coil and boot on the #3 cylinder. I did not experience any change in condition, or reach any conclusions. So, I decided to change the spark plugs. The truck has 160,000 miles, and I could not be sure as to when they were last changed.
I'm sure anyone taking the time to read this knows where this is going. Upon pulling the #5 spark plug, I found that this cylinder had been repaired with a steel insert. I know this because the insert came out with the plug! I do not know what method or kit was used, but the insert itself looked just like the inserts found with this kit depicted here.
The outside threads have some knurling at the top.
I have read at least half of the posts on this thread and haven't been able to find where someone has had a repair insert fail. Does anyone know of good repair for this?
I have a suspicion that the #6 cylinder on the other side has been repaired as well, because the #5 & 6 spark plugs had washers installed on the plugs. someone has put this washer in-between the spark plug and insert to keep the insert from threading too far into the head.
In a fit of remorse I tried to re-install the insert with the spark plug without the washer. I ran the plug and insert in until the insert seemed to tighten into the head some. It was not very tight though. I then backed the spark plug back out, installed the washer and tightened down the plug the best I could. I was not using a torque wrench, but it snugged up fairly well.
With everything assembled I started the truck and one of the plugs definitly blew out. It was likely #5, but could have been #6.
What I am thinking of doing is trying to get the insert back out and reinstalling it using a spark plug, with the washer this time (to ensure depth) and using either JB Weld, or Red High Temp thread locker on the threads.
I apologize for the long post but I'm a little exasperated with my predicament. I could see myself getting really attached to this truck, if I can get this issue resolved.
Thanks for any help that you can provide.
Anyway, the truck had a misfire on one of the cylinders. It would shudder and cut out a little at the bottom of every gear with light to moderate acceleration. The code reader was showing a misfire on cylinder #3. I then performed some steps to troubleshoot the coil and boot on the #3 cylinder. I did not experience any change in condition, or reach any conclusions. So, I decided to change the spark plugs. The truck has 160,000 miles, and I could not be sure as to when they were last changed.
I'm sure anyone taking the time to read this knows where this is going. Upon pulling the #5 spark plug, I found that this cylinder had been repaired with a steel insert. I know this because the insert came out with the plug! I do not know what method or kit was used, but the insert itself looked just like the inserts found with this kit depicted here.
The outside threads have some knurling at the top.
I have read at least half of the posts on this thread and haven't been able to find where someone has had a repair insert fail. Does anyone know of good repair for this?
I have a suspicion that the #6 cylinder on the other side has been repaired as well, because the #5 & 6 spark plugs had washers installed on the plugs. someone has put this washer in-between the spark plug and insert to keep the insert from threading too far into the head.
In a fit of remorse I tried to re-install the insert with the spark plug without the washer. I ran the plug and insert in until the insert seemed to tighten into the head some. It was not very tight though. I then backed the spark plug back out, installed the washer and tightened down the plug the best I could. I was not using a torque wrench, but it snugged up fairly well.
With everything assembled I started the truck and one of the plugs definitly blew out. It was likely #5, but could have been #6.
What I am thinking of doing is trying to get the insert back out and reinstalling it using a spark plug, with the washer this time (to ensure depth) and using either JB Weld, or Red High Temp thread locker on the threads.
I apologize for the long post but I'm a little exasperated with my predicament. I could see myself getting really attached to this truck, if I can get this issue resolved.
Thanks for any help that you can provide.
#499
06-17-2015, 10:58 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin
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which time cert kit?
Original owner of 1998 5.4 and I had my first blown plug at around 240k miles on 4/2014. It was the #5. I was really naive of this issue, and quite frankly after I started reading up, I feel I was pretty fortunate up that point. Again, before I read up on the issue and I was very low on funds, I opted to install a Dorman HELP! spark plug thread repair kit. It's happened again to #4 and #6. It's been running great up until a few days ago I could hear a compression leak from the #5. Now that I have some funds I want to move forward with installing the inserts on all the plug holes. I looked through the timecert site but couldn't find kit pricing plus I'm not really sure which kit is the one for my application. In some the thread posts I've seen references of timecert and bigcert. Are both the same or different types of inserts? If different, which is best for my application?
#501
06-26-2015, 04:42 PM
Hi, I’m new to the forum, and found it the other day while researching the blown plug fix I’m planning to do to my ’98 Expedition 5.4, 4x4 XLT. I have 185K on it, and first plug (#4) went about 10K ago, repaired with Timesert, and all other plugs changed then to. Within last 1000miles, both #3&7 have gone, and were repaired same way. I use my Expy for towing my trailer, hauling and road trips, so it’s important to me not to be stuck again so I started looking at doing the repairs to #1,2,5,6&8 before I take a trip with my trailer to the mountains in a month. I’ve read lots but am getting confused about the products due to the problem having been discussed for years now, so I’m looking for someone with recent experience to comment or confirm that I’m going in the right direction! I recently spoke with a Tech Support guy @ Time Fasteners, and he claims that I don’t have to buy the #5553 kit, and can use the 4412E version, and buy the inserts (#44186) separately along with Loctite #266 and oil.
Thanks in advance, Looking forward to the good content I see here so far!
Mitch
Thanks in advance, Looking forward to the good content I see here so far!
Mitch
#503
06-26-2015, 07:35 PM
#504
08-09-2015, 06:45 PM
Hi, I don't have an F-150 but instead a 2003 Mach 1 Mustang with the 4V 4.6 engine. There is a Procharger installed. I just bought the car a little over a month ago, with 24k miles. I still think this is probably a good forum to ask about this even if it's on a Mustang.
I feel stupid, a few days after I bought it I realized there was some excessive noise coming from the heads. Like a ticking. I got excited when I was test driving the car so I didn't notice then. I was slightly worried about it, but it seemed to drive fine so I just kept going.
A week after buying the car, BOOM! The #3 plug blew out (while idling even), destroying the threads and the coil pack. Now my car is in the shop having the heads removed, then they'll be sent to a machine shop where they will install helicoils in all 8 holes.
The more I read in this thread, the more helicoils are starting to make me nervous. The repair shop said they don't want to use timeserts because they get into the valve seats. Is this true on the 4V Mustang engines? I see it's recommended over helicoil in this thread.
Does anybody have any input on this? If the helicoils are installed properly, should there be no problem? The shop is a Mustang-only performance shop so I would hope they know what they're talking about. They say they generally do a couple of helicoil jobs every month, but generally on the 2V 4.6, they can't remember if a 4V has come in for it before. That may just be because the 2V is far more common to come across, since it's in the 96-04 GT. The 4V is only in the Mach 1 and Cobra models. They said they haven't heard of one of the repairs failing yet, and the shop has been in business for well over a decade with nothing but glowing reviews online. (STL Mustangs in Leadington, MO)
Really bummed out about this. I paid a pretty decent chunk of change for this car because it seemed to be in flawless shape, inside and out. Looks awesome, and hauls ***. That's what I get for buying a used car based on emotion. I also sold my perfectly reliable '99 GT to "upgrade" to it. D'oh.
I feel stupid, a few days after I bought it I realized there was some excessive noise coming from the heads. Like a ticking. I got excited when I was test driving the car so I didn't notice then. I was slightly worried about it, but it seemed to drive fine so I just kept going.
A week after buying the car, BOOM! The #3 plug blew out (while idling even), destroying the threads and the coil pack. Now my car is in the shop having the heads removed, then they'll be sent to a machine shop where they will install helicoils in all 8 holes.
The more I read in this thread, the more helicoils are starting to make me nervous. The repair shop said they don't want to use timeserts because they get into the valve seats. Is this true on the 4V Mustang engines? I see it's recommended over helicoil in this thread.
Does anybody have any input on this? If the helicoils are installed properly, should there be no problem? The shop is a Mustang-only performance shop so I would hope they know what they're talking about. They say they generally do a couple of helicoil jobs every month, but generally on the 2V 4.6, they can't remember if a 4V has come in for it before. That may just be because the 2V is far more common to come across, since it's in the 96-04 GT. The 4V is only in the Mach 1 and Cobra models. They said they haven't heard of one of the repairs failing yet, and the shop has been in business for well over a decade with nothing but glowing reviews online. (STL Mustangs in Leadington, MO)
Really bummed out about this. I paid a pretty decent chunk of change for this car because it seemed to be in flawless shape, inside and out. Looks awesome, and hauls ***. That's what I get for buying a used car based on emotion. I also sold my perfectly reliable '99 GT to "upgrade" to it. D'oh.
Last edited by miker00lz; 08-09-2015 at 07:05 PM.
#505
08-09-2015, 08:03 PM
#506
08-09-2015, 08:17 PM
So it's not true that timeserts get into the valve seats? Two different shops actually told me that. Is there some difference between the F-150 heads and the Mustang heads that would cause this?
I've read in a number of places that helicoils can be considered a permanent repair if installed absolutely perfectly. Not true?
Thanks for the info. Wonder if I should just sell the car after the repair, eat my losses and just get a slightly used 5.0.
I've read in a number of places that helicoils can be considered a permanent repair if installed absolutely perfectly. Not true?
Thanks for the info. Wonder if I should just sell the car after the repair, eat my losses and just get a slightly used 5.0.
#507
08-09-2015, 09:32 PM
So it's not true that timeserts get into the valve seats? Two different shops actually told me that. Is there some difference between the F-150 heads and the Mustang heads that would cause this?
I've read in a number of places that helicoils can be considered a permanent repair if installed absolutely perfectly. Not true?
Thanks for the info. Wonder if I should just sell the car after the repair, eat my losses and just get a slightly used 5.0.
I've read in a number of places that helicoils can be considered a permanent repair if installed absolutely perfectly. Not true?
Thanks for the info. Wonder if I should just sell the car after the repair, eat my losses and just get a slightly used 5.0.
#510
10-02-2015, 01:11 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Missouri
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Huge thanks to this thread and those that contribute such valuable information. I just bought a 2002 F150 5.4 with 158,000 miles. I knew of the spark plug issue and I always do all the maintenance when I buy a used vehicle. This thread gave me all the info I needed, especially the 28ft pds torque rating. I can see how that is very necessary for this plug design. First I found that my engine had AutoLite plugs in it. Then at least three of them were only hand tight, I could remove them without a ratchet. Put all new Motorcraft plugs in it and torqued them down. Runs a lot better now and has more power on hills. Not just my imagination either!
Thanks to the F150online forums for keeping my engine in one piece. If you just bought a 5.4 or haven't changed your plugs in forever, I highly recommend doing it immediately. You will thank yourself when you unscrew a hand-tight plug.
Thanks to the F150online forums for keeping my engine in one piece. If you just bought a 5.4 or haven't changed your plugs in forever, I highly recommend doing it immediately. You will thank yourself when you unscrew a hand-tight plug.