Hopefully this has not been answered somewhere else on here and I missed it, but I have searched for about 3 hours with no luck.

I am looking at replacing a Bumper Pull Horse Trailer with a Gooseneck trailer IOT increase the length and height of the internal cargo area. The size increase is more to accommodate the size of my Draft Horses than to significantly increase the pounds of payload. The horses weight approx. 1800LBS a piece so 4 of them will be less than 7500lbs and the trailer weights approx. 3500lbs empty. Total: 11,000. Hauling all four at the same time is almost never done, but I am trying to account for a worst case scenario.

My truck is a 10 SCREW 4x4 with 5.4 and 3.73 gears with HD Tow so my Max trailer weight is 11,100 (according to the manual) so mathematically I could tow it but 100LB safety factor is way too low for my comfort so eventually I will need to upgrade the truck to a F250.

I can’t afford to upgrade trailer and truck at the same time so my plan was to upgrade the trailer now and limit the number of horses in the trailer until I can upgrade the truck next year.

As I was looking at trailers a local guy told me that he thought that the Fed laws have changed and now you cannot tow a trailer with a GVWR in excess of you trucks max tow capability even if it is not loaded which means that I couldn’t even tow the trailer behind my truck empty (The Gooseneck Horse trailers have a GVWR or 14,000 lbs). I have researched the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website and other sites for a week and could not find an answer so I asked a truck driver friend and said he thought it was not the trailer GVWR but the actual weight of the trailer being towed that counted so legality would depend on how many horses were in the trailer, but also stated that the laws change so often nobody can keep up with them all.

Finally the questions:

Can you haul a trailer with a GVWR that exceeds your tow vehicles limits as long as the weight of the loaded trailer does not exceed you vehicles weights limits (GCWR, RAWR, max trailer rating).

What would the max tow rating be for a 2015 F250 with a max tow package be, I couldn’t find a rating increase on the ford tow spec sheets for max tow package.

Thank You for any assistance you can provide.
David

 

I'll try and help of the non-specific Ford questions on towing.

The confusion on what you can tow as far as laws are concerned is very confusing because you have Federal DOT laws and we have State and local law enforcement. An example of this is DOT requires trailer brakes on any trailer with 2 axles. States like Texas do not enforce this law. States like Colorado you will end up with a hefty fine is caught traveling with a dual axle brakes and both not working for any reason. In fact they set up temporary weigh stations just about everywhere and they do checks on all trailers in Colorado, not just commercial like highway ports of entry.

Then there is the issue if the law enforcement is trained to even know about trailering and weights. Some do, most do not even deal with trailer stuff. So there is a chance you could get pulled over for something like speeding, be overweight and unsafe for multiple reasons and just get a warning for speeding because that person in LE was not trained for trailer stuff.

The reason the CDL truck driver told you its about the weight you are carrying not the ratings is that is how CDL trans-state works. They need licensing and ratings for the load they are carrying. They can have a trailer capable of 200,000 lbs but if they are crossing the scales at 10k and are rated to drive 10k, they are good to go.

This is not the case for personal vehicles for those of you without CDLs. Even if it is legal in your particular area and you are over your GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR, etc, etc, etc If anything happened while driving, even if it was not your fault you could be found negligent and reckless contributing the whatever happend making you personally and civilly liable.

Obviously these are personal choices and I see people every day towing outside specs. Most believe they are ok. Some were mis-informed and once notified would never do it again.

Also, FWIW I say somewhere around 60-70% of new trailers and 80-90% of used are not legal as far as DOT for one reason or another. Towing can be more complex than just hooking up and off we go. You local trailer shop can be a wealth of help if they are trained.

To the OP- I have said and will say over and over.. no matter what your owners manual says.... 1/2 ton trucks (ie F-150) tow best at 5000 lbs and under. Doesn't mean it can and wont pull more. If you tow on any regular basis over this amount get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a diesel. Once you have done this you will laugh that you even attempted it with a 1/2 ton.

 

Also, you will most likely exceed the truck's GVWR/payload rating before you exceed the truck's max trailer weight rating - especially with a 5th wheel or gooseneck.

 

You do no want to exceed the trucks GCWR (gross combined weight rating) due to the fact that the truck brake system is not designed like a super duty is. It also has to do with the design of the frame.

 

I'd upgrade the truck now and the trailer next year.

 

F250 specs

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ations/towing/

 

^^^ What he said! ^^^

David, my Sister has a 4-horse gooseneck and she pulls it with an F-250. The difference though, is her horses are saddle horses, not big boys like you have.

She talks about "feeling it" if the horses shift their positions in the trailer.

I can't imagine pulling a 4-horse gooseneck with a horse or two inside with an F150. I wouldn't do it. As Colorado Osprey said, an F150 is really designed for towing trailers in the 5000# and less weight range, even though it CAN pull more.

Towing already reduces your margin of safety. You don't want it compromised more than it needs to be.

- Jack

 

Colorado,

Thanks for the insight. I did not understand a couple of your comments so I included some clarification requests below.

I concur with your assessment of the F150's towing. Part of the reason for my questions is to make sure I understand the laws so I can buy a new truck that meets the requirements without spending a lot of money on something under or over sized.

 

RSTHD150,

Thanks for the link. I have reviewed the page previously and was surprised to see the limited increase in towing capability between the F150 and F250, which is what lead to my question about the capacity increase with a HD tow package.

 

JackandJanet, Thanks for the reply.

I concur with everything you said. I currently haul my horses in a 7000# GVWR 16' Stock trailer and with two of them in it I am ~ 500# below the trailers limit and as your sister stated if they start moving around you can really feel it back there. That is why I am looking at upsizing my truck.
The quick solution would be to go buy a F350 and be done with it, but since I use the truck for normal daily driving I was hoping to be able to get a gas F250 that will tow a future Gooseneck trailer. From what I have read so far a gas F250 would have to be equipped with 4.30 rear end in order to meet the 14K trailer GVWR.

Thanks again,
David

 

As said, it's not just the trailer GVWR you need to be concerned about - it's also the truck GVWR/payload, front and rear axle GWR, and vehicle/trailer GCWR. Goosenecks put a lot more weight in the bed than bumper pulls put on the hitch.

By the way, you can get a gas 6.2 in a F-350.

 

"...my question is if it is illegal to tow a 14K GVWR rated trailer with a tow vehicle that is only rated for 12K if the trailer and it's cargo's combined weight are below the 12K rating for the truck. Until recently I was under the impression that it would be okay, but I was told last week that it doesn't mater what is in the trailer, I couldn't tow a trailer rated for a higher GVWR than the trucks tow rating specified."

Most LE does not have portable scales so they go off the door stickers on the tow vehicle which has maximum capacities and the owners manual or trailer vin tag.

They can easily look at the trailer vin tag and see a GVWR of 14k and it is common knowledge that there are no 1/2 ton trucks rated to tow 14k.

Trained LE will also look at your hitch on your truck which has a sticker with maximum tow weight with and without weight distribution. Lastly there is you ball mount and ball, all of which have tow ratings. Exceeding any of these will put you in trouble under most states definitions of at a minimum "Wreckless Driving". Some will make you drop the load on the spot and have it towed off by a wrecker.

 

What is it that you are going to tow? If by your example you do have a 14,000 capable trailer and are not exceeding the gross combined vehicle rating then you legally are ok. However dot inspectors may hassle you just know the limitations of your truck.

Also the f250 super crew weights in at 7100 with a total gcwr of 22,200-23,500 lbs of towing via a 5th wheel trailer. That puts you 4,000 lbs under towing. So again, what is it that you are towing. How much weight.

 

Thank you for your reply.

My confusion started when I was looking at Gooseneck horse trailers and was told that I could not tow one with a F150 or F250. Their explanation was that the laws had changed and now it was illegal to haul a trailer with a GVWR rating higher than what the tow vehicle was rated to haul, no matter what the actual weight of the loaded trailer is. I started asking other friends what their understanding of laws (if any) was and got a mixed back of answers so I came on the forum to ask the experts.

I will never haul anything near 14K (normally about 8K of cargo), I was just trying to make sure the trailer GVWR wasn't going to cause a legal problem.

Your answer matches what I and most other people understand and unfortunately, Colorado's discussion about LE Officers not knowing what they are looking for and not having the proper gear also seems to be a common issue. I am going to keep looking for a new truck and trailer and just make sure I have all of the Truck/Trailer numbers handy in case I get asked the question by the LE.

Thanks again for all of the information.

 

No problem, California has some guidelines in our handbook for rv trailers. It should be somewhat neutral through all 50 states. Here is another link with good info.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES

Page 7 is where you should look. Whoever informed you is grossly mistaken. See if your local dmv has a pamphlet like this link and you'll be fine. The f250 diesel would be the route to go. Either 400 ft lbs with a gas or 860 with diesel. Easy choice there