I have a friend with Ford who is trying to convince me to buy a 2009 F150 (not a SuperDuty) for towing. He says that Ford is going to be promoting F150 towing for those of us who don't pull huge trailers. My trailer is 8,500 pounds maximum loaded/wet and 26' long including bumper and tongue. Supposedly, a 2009 F150 with 5.4 gas engine will be rated at over 11,000 pounds towing capacity, have torque in the 390-400 pound range, a 4.1 axle (other information I have read says the 4.1 will not be available so the 3.73 will be the best one can do), and a 6-speed automatic transmission with tow/haul mode. I worked through some figures and will easily be able to maintain a safety margin in the 80-90% of total GCWR range. The possible problem is payload. After gas, passengers, dog, and other gear, I don't think there will be more than about 900 pounds of payload capacity left for hitch weight. If you use the normal 12% of gross trailer weight for hitch weight, that equals about 1,020 pounds. Even with a quality weight distributing/sway eliminating hitch like a Pullrite, Propride, or Hensley, I wonder how this setup would work. I would appreciate any feedback.
Ultimately for towing with an F150, I wish the 2009 F150 had the new 6.2 BOSS engine (who knows when and if that will happen), a heavy duty 6-speed automatic with tow/haul mode, and the 4.1 axle.
Go with the superduty. The numbers you mention are for the 2wd with the high payload (8200lb). A superduty, especially in diesel, will outperform the F150 in all ways while towing, and last a lot longer.
Get a 3/4 ton, the F-150 could do what your asking, but it increase your wear and tear much faster than that of a 250. Guys, correct me if i'm wrong, thats just my first thought.
I like the analogy of "a butter knife will work as a screwdriver too"... Sure it will, a couple of times, but that tip will get bent after a few screws!
For a #8500 GVWR travel trailer, your 'towing' weight is going to be in the #7000-7500 range easily. I don't know what they are going to do to the 5.4 that gets those kind of tq #'s, but at what rpm is that going to be?? If it's around 2500 rpms, then it'll be a real 'stump puller' and you might get away with it... If it's around 4500+ rpms, then you might feel a bit under powered.
#11000 "tow rating" on a "half ton" truck is laughable... The best that "half ton" is going to gross out on is #8200... Pretty respectful for a "half ton", but to have an #11000 trailer behind it?? Well, if it's a stripped down 'work truck', and you are the only passenger, then maybe...
You are correct in your thinking of payload available after loading up the family and stuff... Not going to be much left over.. Also, brochure "weights" are usually on the light side and once you load up the trailer with just the basic stuff, you are going to be well over those 'brochure' weights...
3000-4000 towing miles a year?? You are right on the fence of being in 3/4 ton territory IMO... You'll work that F150 that's for sure, but the F250, even with a V10 will only breath hard for a little bit... Going to that size trailer just needs the right tool for the job, if done on a regular basis..
I try to make the "trip" part of the 'vacation', so getting there is half the fun and if it's struggling with a 'maxed out' load, then that's not going to be much fun!
Good luck with the choice and the shopping!!
Mitch
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97 F150 XLT 4x4 Super Cab 5.4. 190,000 miles, trans code "E" (E4OD). 3.55 LS, LT265/75/16 TOYO AT's. Autometer Water/Trans temp gauges. Bosch + 4 plugs that have 120,000 miles on them and they still have not skipped a beat!
I had this same problem last year. Looking to replace a 20 year old 1 ton with something not to expensive to haul my #9200 horse trailer. I picked up an '08 F150 with the high payload package. It is rated to tow #9600 as a supercab, 4x4, with the 8" bed, which is just barely in the limits of what I need.
I can tow my trailer with 3 horses, 4 people, and a couple hundred lbs of water, sure the truck works a little, but not as bad as I thought it was. A similar equipped (i.e. XLT, supercab, 4x4) F350 is what I was going for, but the F150 was almost $9,000 less or $5,000 less than the F350 supercab, XL, 2x4. I'm not sure if the price difference is still there being a refreshed design though.
BTW, if you are towing, and are going for an F250, just get the F350, it will cost less than $1,000 more and the more ridged frame will make towing far easier.
Everyone who says a 1/2 ton only can do 8200# is not looking at the high payload package and what it does. You get the F250 frame, beefed up axels, and tranny cooler. The model I have gets the 10.5" 4.10 rear end too, but I only have the 4 speed tranny. The new model does away with the bigger rear end but gets a 6 speed tranny.
So if I understand you correctly Jrfish007, my 2005 F150 FX4 with the tow package (Trans cooler, larger radiator, 3:73 gears with the 5.4 Triton V-8 with Goodyear Silent Armor P275/65R18 rated at 2601lbs would be sufficient to pull the following travel trailer. You can read some other post on the thread I created. Below are the specs. on the TT I'm thinking about buying. Of course I'll have the Prodigy brake system installed and a WD hitch setup. Your thoughts.
Truck GVCW = 14500# because of the 18" tires
2004 Forest River Cardinal TT (Model T31BH)
UVW = 7320 lbs
Hitch Weight = 780 lbs
GAWR = 8800 lbs
GVWR = 9580 lbs
CCC = 1818 lbs
Brake Size 12"
Myself = 175 lbs
Wife = 130 lbs
1 - 4 Yr old 40 lbs
1 - 2 Yr old 25 lbs.
Exterior Length = 32'-9" which includes the tounge.
41 gallon fresh water tank. I only plan on carrying maybe 5-10 gallons in the tank in case of emergency use.
Again, all comments and suggestion are very much welcomed.
Guys, it's just not smart pushing the rated limits. To get something from point A to point B it's a risk worth taking, but to do it all the time, especially with your family in the truck, it's not wise. Any time you tow something that weighs much more than the truck you need proper equipment, and 1/2 ton trucks just don't have the proper equipment by design.
For both of you - a Super Duty with either a V10 or a diesel will be a MUCH safer and more comfortable tow. The 5.4 doesn't have enough guts to hang that much behind a Super Duty.
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2003 F150XL 4.2 short cab/bed 4x2 5 speed manual 3.55 LS
The only differences between the 250 & 350 is the springs (and thus payload packages) and the badge on the side of the truck. That's it. The only benefit of a 350 over a 250 is payload capacity. There is no difference in the frames. Look up the specs...trailer weights are the same until you start looking at 5th wheels and pin weights. For pulling a 8,500lb tow behind, you'd never know the difference and the 250 will ride better.
Guys, it's just not smart pushing the rated limits. To get something from point A to point B it's a risk worth taking, but to do it all the time, especially with your family in the truck, it's not wise. Any time you tow something that weighs much more than the truck you need proper equipment, and 1/2 ton trucks just don't have the proper equipment by design.
For both of you - a Super Duty with either a V10 or a diesel will be a MUCH safer and more comfortable tow. The 5.4 doesn't have enough guts to hang that much behind a Super Duty.
My trailer doesn't weigh that much more than the truck.... Even with 3 horses in it, the trailer weighs just over 9,000 lbs and the truck weighs 6,300 lbs without anyone in it.
Remember, if you jump up to the F250 or even single wheel F350, you can still get the 5.4L with a 3.73 rear end that is rated to tow far more than we are talking about... so I don't think drivetrain is an issue.
However, I see your point, you need a large truck, hence the reason Ford has the High Payload package. The key to safe towing though is not your drivetrain, because lets face it if the drivetrain fails what happens? You don't move... the key to towing is the strength of the frame and your brakes. A strong heavy frame will prevent excessive swaying of the trailer (possible flipping) and good brakes... are... well... obvious. lol
The F150 has both of these, in fact the brakes on my F150 have more breaking force than my old 1 ton dually.
Final word on drivetrain... to put things in perspective, the C3500 that I used to haul with had a 454 in, rated at 230 hp and 385 ft. lb. with a 4.11 rear end and 3 speed tranny (Chevy), the F150 5.4L has 300 hp and 365 ft. lb. torque, 4 speed tranny and 4.10 rear end, so I'm thinking the engine isn't that big of a deal. And that drivetrain on the 1 ton was rated at 14,500 lbs.
My final point is that the F150 high payload is not that far behind the 20 year old 1 ton truck it is replacing. Sure the dual tires would have be nice for extra stability (specially important when hauling live stock), and yeah a bigger engine is always nice, but money doesn't grow on trees... at least not any more, and I am within the manufactures limits, which is always 20% under the engineered value (i.e. a truck that can tow 12,000 lbs will be rated at 10,000).
So if I understand you correctly Jrfish007, my 2005 F150 FX4 with the tow package (Trans cooler, larger radiator, 3:73 gears with the 5.4 Triton V-8 with Goodyear Silent Armor P275/65R18 rated at 2601lbs would be sufficient to pull the following travel trailer. You can read some other post on the thread I created. Below are the specs. on the TT I'm thinking about buying. Of course I'll have the Prodigy brake system installed and a WD hitch setup. Your thoughts.
Truck GVCW = 14500# because of the 18" tires
2004 Forest River Cardinal TT (Model T31BH)
UVW = 7320 lbs
Hitch Weight = 780 lbs
GAWR = 8800 lbs
GVWR = 9580 lbs
CCC = 1818 lbs
Brake Size 12"
Myself = 175 lbs
Wife = 130 lbs
1 - 4 Yr old 40 lbs
1 - 2 Yr old 25 lbs.
Exterior Length = 32'-9" which includes the tounge.
41 gallon fresh water tank. I only plan on carrying maybe 5-10 gallons in the tank in case of emergency use.
Again, all comments and suggestion are very much welcomed.
As I mentioned above, the powertrain is probably finally... specially with the tranny cooler. Brakes are good too... what I would worry about is the actual weight of the truck versus the trailer. I'm not sure what the weight of an FX4 is, I went to local gravel pit and had mine measured (of course I was buying gravel).
Key point to remember is that I deal with horse trailers, so for me stability is always an issue because horses are random weights in the back.
But here is my suggestion for what it is worth, if you haven't bought this trailer yet, don't. Go for a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch. When you have a tag along style trailer, you are creating a moment about the rear wheels of the truck, so if you hit strong winds, with that high of a surface area trailer you are more prone to swaying which is VERY DANGEROUS. By getting a goosneck/5th wheel you get rid of that moment and place the weight of the trailer directly over the rear axel so if the trailer does start to sway it won't pull you as much and you will have better control of the situation.
Additionally a goosneck/5th wheel is FAR easier to back and in general drive. Just be careful you don't jackknife it with the shorter bed (8' foot bed is useful in these cases, but work with what you have). I have seen plenty of people drive goosnecks fine with 6.5 foot beds, I just prefer the 8 foot.
My only worry is that there is quite a bit of surface area on that trailer for the weight, make sure your truck weighs over 6,000 lbs and go with a goosneck. The extra money for the gooseneck (which isn't all that much) is well worth it.
And like I said, I'm a horse guy, so stability is always a big issue. But to much stability will never hurt you.
The other thing to look at, and I'm not sure where you are located, but how is the terrain? I live in a pretty flat area, so my F150 really has no problem, but I live about 1 hour from the Aps and would not dream of taking my truck and trailer over the mountains. That would require far more stability (i.e. dual rear wheels) and power. Although power may be enough, I would be slogging by the top at probably 20 MPH. Brakes are also an issue on mountains... but that's a thread in its self.
The only differences between the 250 & 350 is the springs (and thus payload packages) and the badge on the side of the truck. That's it. The only benefit of a 350 over a 250 is payload capacity. There is no difference in the frames. Look up the specs...trailer weights are the same until you start looking at 5th wheels and pin weights. For pulling a 8,500lb tow behind, you'd never know the difference and the 250 will ride better.
Yes, you are right. However, if you go on to a dealer lot (at least from what I've seen), you'll see most F350's come with more aggressive gearing and engines. Additionally the extra payload won't hurt anything, you may actually need that extra payload at some point.
towing... my point of reference is always 5th wheel/gooseneck. My comment on the F250/F350 thing was just in general.
A 5th wheel/gooseneck on a 1/2 ton is iffy. It's too easy to exceed the rear GAWR and the GVWR. It doesn't leave you much room to put any kind of load in the truck.
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2003 F150XL 4.2 short cab/bed 4x2 5 speed manual 3.55 LS
F150 SuperCrew towing, payload, and GCWR
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