tire to fender height after lowering???
#1
07-03-2002, 02:20 PM
tire to fender height after lowering???
Got a new DJM 2/4 lowering kit.
Yesterday, I finished lowering my 99 supercab flareside.
At first I installed the DJM front coils, hangers, shackles and all four lowered shocks. I put the shackle at the 1 inch setting as opposed to the 2 inch setting for a 2/3 drop. Although the bottom of the truck in the rear was higher than the bottom front of the truck, the rear tire to fender distance was 1 and 1/2 inch shorter than the front?
So I took the DJM shackels out and put the stock shackel back in and the front and rear tire to fender distance is exactly the same.
What did I do wrong? I thought the rear tire to fender distance should be one to two inches longer than the front tire to fender distance???
Yesterday, I finished lowering my 99 supercab flareside.
At first I installed the DJM front coils, hangers, shackles and all four lowered shocks. I put the shackle at the 1 inch setting as opposed to the 2 inch setting for a 2/3 drop. Although the bottom of the truck in the rear was higher than the bottom front of the truck, the rear tire to fender distance was 1 and 1/2 inch shorter than the front?
So I took the DJM shackels out and put the stock shackel back in and the front and rear tire to fender distance is exactly the same.
What did I do wrong? I thought the rear tire to fender distance should be one to two inches longer than the front tire to fender distance???
#2
07-04-2002, 01:51 PM
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#3
07-04-2002, 06:37 PM
Area 52,
Exactly!!!!!!!
Even though I researched the how, what and when of lowering....I forgot to measure before I started!
I kept telling myself, self, remember to fill in that little card with left and right, front and back, before and after measurements.... but I didn't.
The only measurements I have is the bottom of the lightning front bumper that I just installed. It was 11 and 1/2 inches from the bottom of the bumper before the front was lowered with 2 inch springs. After lowering it is 9 and 1/2 inches. So it did lower it 2 inches, but it does not look like it. Also, I had 4 and 1/2 inches of space between the top of the front tire and the bottom of the fender, now I have 3 and 1/4 inches?????? I think I screwed the measurements somehow. All I know for sure is that the front did not lower very much at all.
I currently have 265/75/16 tires. They are 31.6 inches in diameter. Way too tall.
If a 2/4 kit is suppose to even things out or leave you rear fender a little higher than the front, a 2/3 lowering should leave my rear fender a little more higher than the front. But It didn't.
What is even stranger is that, the bottom of the truck measurements looked good. The front was lower than the back, but the back fender was lower than the front???
It does look like the front fender well is higher than the rear fender well. In other words, if you laid the body on the floor, it looks like the front fender well has a higher arch than the rear.
I loosened the front and rear anti-sway bars and then tightend them up again. Did not help. I do have the additional end link bolt and bushings that Hellwigg sent me before I lowered it. They are shorter than the ones that came with the swaybars. I thought that they may need to be shorter, but when I unbolted them it did not change the stance.
I called DJM and they said that, since my truck is four years old, I have already experienced some lowering through normal use and wear of the springs, therefore I will not see a full 2 inch drop in the front.
I noticed that both the old and new coil springs were the same height, but DJM said that did not matter.
I thought that I might have gotten only 1 inch drop coil springs, but DJM said the lowest they offer is a 2 inch drop.
I thought also that I might have put the rear shocks up front but, I checked and the "longer set" goes in back and the shorter set goes up front and that is what I did.
I also thought that the rubber caps that go on top of the coil, may have not seated but it looks like they did.
It really odd. Right now, I have a 2/2 drop kit installed (front coils and shocks and rear hangers and shocks and I took the DJM shackles out and put the stock shackels in), yet right behind the front fender well I measured 13 inches from the floor to the bottom of the body, behind the rear fender well at the end of the body where it meets the rear bumper I measured 16 and 3/4 inches from the floor to the body. However, the front tire top to the bottom of the fender well measures 3 and 1/4 inches, and the rear tire top to the bottom of the fender well measures 3 and 3/8 inches. Which means the rear tire to fender space is only 1/8 of an inch wider than the front?
Everyone says that I am lucky it "came out" that way because it looks good, but I do not understand how a truck that had a stock sport rake on the bottom of the body and at the fender wells, keeps a sport rake on the bottom but gets the same fenderwell space in the front and back after a 2/2 drop. If I would have kept the 2/3 lowering my rear fender to tire space would have been an inch lower than the front? The full 2/4 kit would have leveled the bottom of my truck but the back fender space would have been 2 inches lower than the front fender well to tire space !
Can someone please tell me how I screwed up and what is going on???
Exactly!!!!!!!
Even though I researched the how, what and when of lowering....I forgot to measure before I started!
I kept telling myself, self, remember to fill in that little card with left and right, front and back, before and after measurements.... but I didn't.
The only measurements I have is the bottom of the lightning front bumper that I just installed. It was 11 and 1/2 inches from the bottom of the bumper before the front was lowered with 2 inch springs. After lowering it is 9 and 1/2 inches. So it did lower it 2 inches, but it does not look like it. Also, I had 4 and 1/2 inches of space between the top of the front tire and the bottom of the fender, now I have 3 and 1/4 inches?????? I think I screwed the measurements somehow. All I know for sure is that the front did not lower very much at all.
I currently have 265/75/16 tires. They are 31.6 inches in diameter. Way too tall.
If a 2/4 kit is suppose to even things out or leave you rear fender a little higher than the front, a 2/3 lowering should leave my rear fender a little more higher than the front. But It didn't.
What is even stranger is that, the bottom of the truck measurements looked good. The front was lower than the back, but the back fender was lower than the front???
It does look like the front fender well is higher than the rear fender well. In other words, if you laid the body on the floor, it looks like the front fender well has a higher arch than the rear.
I loosened the front and rear anti-sway bars and then tightend them up again. Did not help. I do have the additional end link bolt and bushings that Hellwigg sent me before I lowered it. They are shorter than the ones that came with the swaybars. I thought that they may need to be shorter, but when I unbolted them it did not change the stance.
I called DJM and they said that, since my truck is four years old, I have already experienced some lowering through normal use and wear of the springs, therefore I will not see a full 2 inch drop in the front.
I noticed that both the old and new coil springs were the same height, but DJM said that did not matter.
I thought that I might have gotten only 1 inch drop coil springs, but DJM said the lowest they offer is a 2 inch drop.
I thought also that I might have put the rear shocks up front but, I checked and the "longer set" goes in back and the shorter set goes up front and that is what I did.
I also thought that the rubber caps that go on top of the coil, may have not seated but it looks like they did.
It really odd. Right now, I have a 2/2 drop kit installed (front coils and shocks and rear hangers and shocks and I took the DJM shackles out and put the stock shackels in), yet right behind the front fender well I measured 13 inches from the floor to the bottom of the body, behind the rear fender well at the end of the body where it meets the rear bumper I measured 16 and 3/4 inches from the floor to the body. However, the front tire top to the bottom of the fender well measures 3 and 1/4 inches, and the rear tire top to the bottom of the fender well measures 3 and 3/8 inches. Which means the rear tire to fender space is only 1/8 of an inch wider than the front?
Everyone says that I am lucky it "came out" that way because it looks good, but I do not understand how a truck that had a stock sport rake on the bottom of the body and at the fender wells, keeps a sport rake on the bottom but gets the same fenderwell space in the front and back after a 2/2 drop. If I would have kept the 2/3 lowering my rear fender to tire space would have been an inch lower than the front? The full 2/4 kit would have leveled the bottom of my truck but the back fender space would have been 2 inches lower than the front fender well to tire space !
Can someone please tell me how I screwed up and what is going on???
Last edited by iron horse; 07-04-2002 at 06:42 PM.
#4
07-04-2002, 08:21 PM
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HI IH,
Geez! I put my 2" drop shackles in last week and did the same thing you did...forgot to get the "before" measurement (DOH!). Like other people have stated, the 2" drop shackles will only net a 1 to 1.5 inch drop. Mine dropped within this range. I noticed almost a 5" gap between my 31.5" tall tires and the uppermost part of the fenderwell before the drop (measured it some time ago). After the drop, I measured about 3.6", which is just a tad more than the gap on the front.
I then put a 30" level on the bed rail and it now sits about a 1/2 bubble high in the rear. I think before the drop, it was a little more than a full bubble high.
In your case, the 2" drop in the front worked out as designed by the manufacturer....they measure the yielded drop at the front of the vehicle, not the gap between the front tires and wells.
In addition, I wouldn't compare the 13" measurement behind the rear tire to the measurement on the front. Check the levelness (rake) at the bed rail.
One more item...did you put the stock shocks back in after putting the stock shackles back in?
Geez! I put my 2" drop shackles in last week and did the same thing you did...forgot to get the "before" measurement (DOH!). Like other people have stated, the 2" drop shackles will only net a 1 to 1.5 inch drop. Mine dropped within this range. I noticed almost a 5" gap between my 31.5" tall tires and the uppermost part of the fenderwell before the drop (measured it some time ago). After the drop, I measured about 3.6", which is just a tad more than the gap on the front.
I then put a 30" level on the bed rail and it now sits about a 1/2 bubble high in the rear. I think before the drop, it was a little more than a full bubble high.
In your case, the 2" drop in the front worked out as designed by the manufacturer....they measure the yielded drop at the front of the vehicle, not the gap between the front tires and wells.
In addition, I wouldn't compare the 13" measurement behind the rear tire to the measurement on the front. Check the levelness (rake) at the bed rail.
One more item...did you put the stock shocks back in after putting the stock shackles back in?
#5
07-05-2002, 01:10 AM
Area 52,
Thanks for the response. I just got back from driving my truck. Put about 70 miles on it and it did not "die" on me. I will post in the other thread about my update, but wanted to say that my truck is doing exactly ( there is that word again) what yours was doing. Therefore, I am going to take the chip out and clean the plugg in area. I am a little aprehensive about doing that since I came dangerously close to scraping copper....anyway.....
No, I left the drop shocks in. Although, the 13 inch measurement (after drop) was behind the front wheel and the 16 and 3/4 inch measurement (after drop) was behind the rear wheel. Just put a 6 inch level on three points on the bed rail. It is 1/4 of the bubble high in the rear.
Now that you mention it, my pre-drop rear tire to fender gap was either 5 and 1/4 or 5 and 1/2. I just remembered, my pre-drop, behind the front fender, floor to body measurement was 15 and something inches (after drop is 13 inches) and my pre-drop, behind the rear fender, floor to body measurement was 18 inches and something (after drop is 16 and 3/4 inches).
My drop measurements sound similar to yours. Does this sound normal? If so, it sounds like there would be no way to get a level look on the bottom and a level tire to fender gap? It also sounds like if I want a rear tire to fender gap of at least 1 inch larger than the front and keep the bottom rake, I would either have to go with a 1 inch drop in the rear or go with a 3 inch drop in the front? I wanted a slight rake in the rear fender gap as well as the bottom of the truck.
I wonder how much of a front drop I would have to go if I wanted a 3 inch drop in the rear, and if I wanted the front tire to fender gap to be the same or less than the rear tire to fender gap? It sounds like I would need at least 3 inches for the gap to be the same and 4 inches if I wanted the gap to be a little less than the rear?
One thing that is agonizing to think about is that I could have just put the drop shackels in to get what I ended up with! Or just used the 1 inch drop bolt holes to get a larger gap in the rear tire to fender space. Instead, I went through rivet hel* !!!! Ha!
Or what if I put the stock rear shocks back in, would that raise the rear fender up a little more? I don't really want to do that. The truck drives awsome! This is the best steering I have ever felt in a truck.
Thanks for the response. I just got back from driving my truck. Put about 70 miles on it and it did not "die" on me. I will post in the other thread about my update, but wanted to say that my truck is doing exactly ( there is that word again) what yours was doing. Therefore, I am going to take the chip out and clean the plugg in area. I am a little aprehensive about doing that since I came dangerously close to scraping copper....anyway.....
No, I left the drop shocks in. Although, the 13 inch measurement (after drop) was behind the front wheel and the 16 and 3/4 inch measurement (after drop) was behind the rear wheel. Just put a 6 inch level on three points on the bed rail. It is 1/4 of the bubble high in the rear.
Now that you mention it, my pre-drop rear tire to fender gap was either 5 and 1/4 or 5 and 1/2. I just remembered, my pre-drop, behind the front fender, floor to body measurement was 15 and something inches (after drop is 13 inches) and my pre-drop, behind the rear fender, floor to body measurement was 18 inches and something (after drop is 16 and 3/4 inches).
My drop measurements sound similar to yours. Does this sound normal? If so, it sounds like there would be no way to get a level look on the bottom and a level tire to fender gap? It also sounds like if I want a rear tire to fender gap of at least 1 inch larger than the front and keep the bottom rake, I would either have to go with a 1 inch drop in the rear or go with a 3 inch drop in the front? I wanted a slight rake in the rear fender gap as well as the bottom of the truck.
I wonder how much of a front drop I would have to go if I wanted a 3 inch drop in the rear, and if I wanted the front tire to fender gap to be the same or less than the rear tire to fender gap? It sounds like I would need at least 3 inches for the gap to be the same and 4 inches if I wanted the gap to be a little less than the rear?
One thing that is agonizing to think about is that I could have just put the drop shackels in to get what I ended up with! Or just used the 1 inch drop bolt holes to get a larger gap in the rear tire to fender space. Instead, I went through rivet hel* !!!! Ha!
Or what if I put the stock rear shocks back in, would that raise the rear fender up a little more? I don't really want to do that. The truck drives awsome! This is the best steering I have ever felt in a truck.
Last edited by iron horse; 07-05-2002 at 02:01 AM.
#6
07-05-2002, 01:19 PM
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Regarding the chip...leave it out for a week and see if your symptoms come back. If not, then take the computer out and start scraping. Take a very close look at the board space areas between the contacts...that's where I had the problem. I think one of the contacts was riding high on the conformal coating between the contact.
Regarding the suspension, it sounds like you have the truck setting just about level (1/4 bubble rake on bed) with the factory shackles. Your stock setting was apparently much lower than mine. You are right about dropping the front 3" in conjunction with the 2" shackles. I don't know if I would go any lower in the front if you're concerned about handling and expense for drop spindles. If you try the 2nd hole position on the drop shackles it will probably drop 1/2-3/4" making the bed sit level.
As for the shocks, they are meant to operate within a certain range due to piston/valving orientation. At least they are on the back...for now you could probably get away with driving on regular roads. Putting the stock shocks back in will not change the height.
Regarding the suspension, it sounds like you have the truck setting just about level (1/4 bubble rake on bed) with the factory shackles. Your stock setting was apparently much lower than mine. You are right about dropping the front 3" in conjunction with the 2" shackles. I don't know if I would go any lower in the front if you're concerned about handling and expense for drop spindles. If you try the 2nd hole position on the drop shackles it will probably drop 1/2-3/4" making the bed sit level.
As for the shocks, they are meant to operate within a certain range due to piston/valving orientation. At least they are on the back...for now you could probably get away with driving on regular roads. Putting the stock shocks back in will not change the height.
#7
07-05-2002, 03:18 PM
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#8
07-05-2002, 04:29 PM
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#9
07-05-2002, 05:42 PM
Area 52,
No, you are correct.
I took the DJM shackles out and put the factory shackles back in. I left the DJM 2 inch drop hangers in.
I also left the DJM rear drop shocks in.
I left the DJM 2 inch drop front coilsprings in.
I left the DJM front drop shocks in.
I have a 2/2 drop now with a raked lower portion, yet evenly spaced fender wells.
Should I put the factory shocks back in? I don't wish too, but want the most control in my steering as possible. I don't care about ride comfort, I need better handling and steering control with less body roll.
Just wanted to say, thanks again. You have really helped me when I needed it the most! In the other thread, if you send a mailing address via my email, I will send you a % of the cash award.
No, you are correct.
I took the DJM shackles out and put the factory shackles back in. I left the DJM 2 inch drop hangers in.
I also left the DJM rear drop shocks in.
I left the DJM 2 inch drop front coilsprings in.
I left the DJM front drop shocks in.
I have a 2/2 drop now with a raked lower portion, yet evenly spaced fender wells.
Should I put the factory shocks back in? I don't wish too, but want the most control in my steering as possible. I don't care about ride comfort, I need better handling and steering control with less body roll.
Just wanted to say, thanks again. You have really helped me when I needed it the most! In the other thread, if you send a mailing address via my email, I will send you a % of the cash award.
Last edited by iron horse; 07-05-2002 at 05:45 PM.
#10
07-06-2002, 01:40 PM
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IronHorse,
This site is not about money...it's helping with the advice for resolution that makes this site popular. Hang onto it or donate it to The Lonely Hearts Mechanics Association.
Regarding your rear shocks, think about the "normal" up and down travel of the body with respect to the axle. If there's enough travel on the shocks to handle the travel of the body/axle, you should be alright. Like I mentioned before, some shocks are designed with positioning valving and 3 things could occur: 1. the full shock resistance capability will not occur; 2. the travel of the body with respect to the axle might be limited by the travel of the shock; 3. damaged or shortened life of shock may result from either 1 or 2.
I would check the travel by slowly jacking up the body to see the amount of travel on the shocks. It will get to a point where the axle will be hanging from the shocks (instead of the springs). If you think your truck will travel that full distance (which I doubt) then go back to the original length shock.
This site is not about money...it's helping with the advice for resolution that makes this site popular. Hang onto it or donate it to The Lonely Hearts Mechanics Association.
Regarding your rear shocks, think about the "normal" up and down travel of the body with respect to the axle. If there's enough travel on the shocks to handle the travel of the body/axle, you should be alright. Like I mentioned before, some shocks are designed with positioning valving and 3 things could occur: 1. the full shock resistance capability will not occur; 2. the travel of the body with respect to the axle might be limited by the travel of the shock; 3. damaged or shortened life of shock may result from either 1 or 2.
I would check the travel by slowly jacking up the body to see the amount of travel on the shocks. It will get to a point where the axle will be hanging from the shocks (instead of the springs). If you think your truck will travel that full distance (which I doubt) then go back to the original length shock.
#11
07-07-2002, 02:30 AM
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http://*****************************...ick/100295.jpg
Just a question, what motor do you have? 4.2,4.6, or 5.4. If you have the 4.2 you will not see the settling of a truck with the 5.4. the above pic is of my truck, i've got the 5.4, and am running a 2.5/4.5 eibach kit
Just a question, what motor do you have? 4.2,4.6, or 5.4. If you have the 4.2 you will not see the settling of a truck with the 5.4. the above pic is of my truck, i've got the 5.4, and am running a 2.5/4.5 eibach kit
#12
07-07-2002, 10:17 AM
itsnik,
Thanks for the attempt at sending the pic., however I get a "Can not be displayed" reading when I click it on.
I have the 4.6 v8. Does the 5.4 weight more (like 100s of pounds more) than the 4.6?
After I had installed the kit, I attempted to adjust my front swaybar, I wanted to weigh the front down, so I opened the hood and put the following in my engine compartment:
150 pounds of gym weights
a tire and wheel
an aftermarket truck/suv floor jack (cheapo from Wal-Mart)
three (3), eight foot 2x4s (cheap packing wood that my hard bed cover was sent in, so the boards were light in weight)
All this stuff lowered my front, post-drop, tire to fender gap from 3 and 1/2 inches to almost 2 and 1/2 inches. This would have been perfect if It would have stayed in that position. But, even after loosening the swaybar and then re-torqueing the bolts down with all that stuff on it, it went back to the 3 and 1/2 inch setting.
Thanks for the attempt at sending the pic., however I get a "Can not be displayed" reading when I click it on.
I have the 4.6 v8. Does the 5.4 weight more (like 100s of pounds more) than the 4.6?
After I had installed the kit, I attempted to adjust my front swaybar, I wanted to weigh the front down, so I opened the hood and put the following in my engine compartment:
150 pounds of gym weights
a tire and wheel
an aftermarket truck/suv floor jack (cheapo from Wal-Mart)
three (3), eight foot 2x4s (cheap packing wood that my hard bed cover was sent in, so the boards were light in weight)
All this stuff lowered my front, post-drop, tire to fender gap from 3 and 1/2 inches to almost 2 and 1/2 inches. This would have been perfect if It would have stayed in that position. But, even after loosening the swaybar and then re-torqueing the bolts down with all that stuff on it, it went back to the 3 and 1/2 inch setting.