I've got a older friend of mine that works at a local GM dealership. His uncle owns the place..

Last night at the track he told me that GM is voiding warranties across the board for having a K&N air filter, or any other type of oiled filter.

It was because of people over oiling the filter & the extra oil getting sucked in & contaminating the MAF.

The reason i'm posting this here is because if GM is doing it, I'm sure Ford will too..


I'm thinking that the K&N people will have one heck of a legal battle against GM, because K&N filters aren't supposed to void warranties.

 

cliff notes: GM don't like K&N air filters, Ford may join in.
Return truck to stock trim before having it worked on under warranty.

 

ILLEGAL.


I JUST posted under a different thread why.

found it
[QUOTE]Originally posted by l-menace
silly me, I read the law on this and I was under the impression that the warranty could be voided by the aftermarket modification ONLY IF the manufacturer can prove that the aftermarket modification caused the problem.

also, I thought you couldn't void the entire warranty, only the part that went bad.
For example, If I take a lightning into ford and it has engine Mods, they Can note it in their computer and later if I bring the truck back in for warranty, they must PROVE that the engine mods caused the failure.

So If I have the BPU on my Lightning and I have a rust hole in the cab covered under a different warranty, Ford cannot void my rust hole becuase of engine mods.

Of course it gets infinitely more technical when it comes to engine parts.

someone correct me if I am mistaken, becuase I don't think I am.

I wish my truck was under warranty (too old, only 16,000 miles) and they tried to pull some crap like that, I'd take them directly to arbitration and then directly to court. (not like I would have to pay anyone to represent me ) [/QUOTE

 

The key issue as you said it "over oiling"

but they don't seem to mind the intercooler getting oil from lack of a factory crankcase breather.

Best to play by there rules if you value the warranty.

Where would you buy the stock paper filter.

$25 at the dealer
$18.50 on internet + shiping =$24

 

This comes up from time to time, enough that I really should just copy this and keep it. I've posted it a few times. The MM act does not say you can supercharge and giggle juice the wife's Contour and Ford has to prove that's why the motor is in a box in the glovebox now, it more closely says that you can use Vlavoline instead of Motorcraft when you get an oil change. And very specifically. any change in the air filter is very tricky because even if it works properly Ford is legally liable for the emissions of the vehichle and anything that effects that they have a lot of leeway about. In the case mentioned above, GM is not neccesarily voiding warranties on the filter's per se, but on the way the owner maintains them. And I menace is also correct about relevent parts, in this case GM would prolly be denying claims to replace the MAS, and that makes perfect senses to me.

Anyhow, here is the "Alice's Resteraunt Massacree of transmissions" (and anyone old enough to get that joke knows it pretty much gives away my age, too)

Bear with me, I'm going to tell a story.
But first, the courts have held many times that MM only covers you buying REPLACEMENT parts to replace a factory part, so as soneone else stated, the chip is not gonna be covered by it. If you use Quaker State instead of Motorcraft, that's what it does cover.

Anyhow, my story. This is not litterally true, in that the circumstances I'm telling have not come up, but it has some basis in fact, or in the larger truth. I have some knowledge with warranty policy from the day job, but again, this is not a true story, just the message in the story is very true, count on it.

Lightnings come with the 4R100, but they have a shallow pan, instead of the deeper pan with a drain plug that most diesel trucks have. Just imagine that some guy with a Lightning goes to change his fluid and wants to put adrain plug in it so next time it won't be such a mess, so he buys the deep pan that comes on a 4x4 or diesel, and makes no other modifications to the truck at all, aside from the pan it's bone stock. 10K miles later it blows the tranny, can FOrd void the warranty?
Yes, they could.

Suppose that ten years ago, Powertrain did a study with the deep pan (before it was sold they did do this study, I've not read it but I know it does exist) Now, also assume that in this study, which may run 50 pages or so, a paragraph says in effect "the deeper pan has some issues with splash pattern that can cause fluid starvation under XXXXX circumstances. This characteristic will likely result in XXX number of failures per thousand, costing $XXXX each. Thought certain units will benefit from the extra capacity of the pan, it will not create any benefit to some models, so it is reccomended on the units that do not need the extra capacity, the current pan be continued, as the cost of the deeper pan in increased warranty expense will not result in any gain from the net cost/effect of the deficient splash pattern of the new design"

Now this study was maybe read by some engineer or product manager, anyone who makes the decision on which pan to put on which transmission, and the L for whatever reason didn't get one.

Back to the guy who put the Factory Part from a 4x4 on his L, and got his warranty voided. He's just about to blow a gasket, can't believe that the factory "upgraded" pan voided his warranty. He gets a lawyer and files a suit, he's sure he'll win this one. The lawyer (who has no experience fighting a car company on an engineering issue, which is important, one who knew the field knows not to pursue the case anyhow)assures him this is a slam dunk, Ford makes the pan for the almost exact same transmissions, how could it cause a failure.
So they go to court, and some engineer from Ford pulls out this very obscure but very relevent 10 year old study on pan splash patterns, explains that Ford knew all along the pan had problems but decided to eat the cost of those problems in models where it was more cost efficient to do so, and that was why the warranty claim was denied, the customer did something that Ford did not recommend, in fact, reccomended to themselves they not do. The defense attorney asks for a summary judgement and the judge dismisses the case.
Whether it makes any sense is beside the point, from a legal point of view, Ford has a very clear open and shut case here.

I can tell you, all of the Big 3 have building full of studies like this, rooms full of lawyers who get paid just as much to set and eat dounuts as defend cases in court, and just about anything you do to a car that can be thought of, they have thought of and filed away a memo just like that to cover them if it ever comes up. Mod it all you want, but if they deny the warranty for anything, bitch and scream all you want, but when they offer to settle, take the offer, if it goes to court, you're gonna lose, I can almost promise you that.

Hope this gave you something to think about.

Thanks,

G

 

so when my leaky I/C fouled my O2 sensors and I took it to the dealership and they refused to cover the O2 sensors (think of warranty covering emissions) they were WRONG!

Since it is federal law that they are responsible for the emissions of a vehicle up to XXXX years or XXXXXX miles.
Ford warranties SUCK!

At least dodge gives 7/70 and some imports up to 100k

 

I have owned many cars and trucks over 30 years.
Greg is right about the warranty issue and alices resteraunt.

The best approach to any warranty claim is to be calm and polite.

Of course they are going to denie you if you come at them with fangs and nails barred. Then started cussing and shouting.

You must be firm and support your claim. Try to appear understanding of there position. If you are not satified with the answer ask to speak to the manager then the area rep and on and on.

Most people will give up and quite but some of the time if you are nice but persistant they will give in and try to help. Sometimes not.

Warranties are like the Lotto. maybe a little better.

Remember that there job is to discourage you. They are just doing a job. Like the rest of us.
If you are a repeat customer or go in with someone who is. Sometimes it might influence the shop forman if the sales manager puts in a good word for you. Ya know what I mean.

Its all about who ya know.

 

LAUGH! that wonderful dodge warranty is more of an advertising ploy than anything useful.

it covers only "internally lubricated" powertrain parts.

this means connecting rods, pistons, crank, and valvetrain.

not gaskets (including HEAD GASKETS), or anything else related to the powertrain that is not a "lubricated moving part".

it sounds great on the TV commercials, consumers assume that their car has a 7/70 warranty. read the "fine print" and you'll find that it's not so all inclusive.

just my .02

later,
chris

 

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - Link

In basic terms the Act was written so that auto manufactures could not “force” you to buy their replacement parts, services ect. in order to maintain your warranty.

In other words Ford “recommends” 5W-20 motor oil for our trucks but they can “not” state in the warranty that you “must” use Motorcraft in order to maintain the warranty. They can state, which they do, that it meets a particular specification and they must make that specification available to any after market manufacture, like Castro Oil and thus there is nothing stopping you from buying and using Castro Oil so longs as it meets Ford lubrication specifications.

As far as the air filter goes K&N does not meet the Ford specifications. The stock air filter does “not” call for being oiled and therefore there are no issues with oil getting on the MAF. If Ford wishes to void a warranty due to an oiled K&N getting oil on the MAF Ford can do so and there is nothing you can do about it since you have “modified” their original design.

Basically you can use “aftermarket” parts for replacement so long as they meet Fords specifications otherwise you have “modified” the original design and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not state anyone has the right to modify the original design of the auto manufacture and then “force” the auto manufacture to warranty something completely out of their control.

It makes perfect sense and why would someone think Ford or anyone else should have to repair something for free when something that has been added does not meet the original designs specifications.

If you are going to modify something it is your free will to do so but once you do then don’t expect the manufacture to cover and repair for free what you have done. The only thing the Act lets you do is buy different brands of oil, filters or anything else that meets Ford specifications and the Act keeps Ford from forcing you to use a specific brand or manufacture for replacement parts, UNLESS Ford offers “free” replacement then Ford can “make” you use that specific part.

Too many people get this act confused with a myth that Ford must prove a particular modification caused the problem. In the case of the oiled K&N Ford don’t need to prove anything because they have the evidence of oil on the MAF which would not have been there to begin with if the “correct” air filter had been used.

Look at it this way, if your going to replace something then make sure it meets Ford specifications. If it does not then you have “modified” and stand a good chance of having that part of the warranty voided with very little to no recourse. And very few people have the money and “facts” Ford does to win in a legal battle.


This goes for any auto manufacture...

 

Gee, don't get so bent out of shape, L menace. For a Law student you sure don't understnad the concept of liability limitation very well. At least you can actually appeal a decision on a warranty claim and if you wan't to fight it long enough you have the right to take them to court over it, I don't even have that, I'm basically stuck with whatever the first company rep says and I'm not allowed arbitration or to sue. But I also have a real good understanding of the day to day mechanics of how the warranty system works, from the dealer right up to the guys in accounting who figure out how much cost a warranty adds to the car, usually a few years before it's ever been built, (and they're pretty good at that, by the way), to the game that goes on between all the places within Ford on who's budget has to absorb it.

G

 

Except on a SRT10!

 

Quite the contrary greg but I'm not about delve in to that here with you. You are a wonderful engineer and I'll leave it at that.

 

Gregg....

Guess thats means Iam old, cuz "You can Get Anything YOU Want at Alice's Restaurant"

Its nice to see 01 XLT Sport still gives us thoughtful responses

And me? That why I kept my factory warranty intack for 6 weeks

 

Yep, I just turned 50 this week (3/11/04) -- I get it!

 

I'm just sittin' here on the Group W Bench...

I wanna KILL KILL KILL!

does that mean I'm old too?