Hey all, Sal here. As always, I am constantly testing and researching product ideas for our beloved trucks. Well, I did some more in-depth research on the pulley subject, and got some interesting data. Now please keep in mind that I am not trying to scare anyone here, just that often products are produced because people will by them, and I feel that you guys have a right to know this data. I spent some time on the phone with Magnason, an Eaton authorized remnufacturer and aftermarket developer. They are NOT producing any goodies for the Lightning, and we discussed why for a while. Now first you need to know a little about the stock set up on the 99. The Eaton M112 can safely operate up to a maximum of 14,000 blower rpm. At the stock shift points of about 5000 rpm, the blower is spinning at 12,700rpm. This is based on the stock 3 inch blower pulley and stock 7 5/8 crank pulley. If you have an aftermarket chip (both brands raise the shift points to about 5500) that will bring your blower rpm up to 13,970, just short of max rpm. If you have the Downs pulley (8") for the crank, that brings blower rpm up to 13,300 at 5000rpm, and to 14,630 at 5500rpm. I don't know the size of the ASP blower pulley, but it is probably a similar ratio to the Downs in blower RPM. So obviuosly if you have an aftermarket pulley and chip, you are overspinning the blower. If you have a pulley and no chip, you are safe, but would most likey see more ET reduction from the chip instead of the pulley. Now I'm sure your asking why is it bad to overspin the blower, and how come you can buy part for the 3.8 GM and SCs. Good question. Here's the answer- All the other Eaton units besides the M112, have a much shorter case, and shorter rotors. You CAN overspin them without damaging them most of the time. But the M112 has longer rotors. When you increase boost, you increase manifold pressure, which pushes up on the rotors. Since they are longer, they flex more. When they flex more, two things can happen. One is that the rotors will go out of time and hit each other. Two is that they can flex upwards and contact the case. Both cases result in a junk blower. I am going to try to get this on the PSP website, in more detail. But I felt that everyone had a right to know this, to aviod potential damage to your truck.

------------------
SAL (E-mail- PowerSurgePerf@aol.com)
13.35@103mph
All stock with PSP 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit

Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html

 

Thanks Sal, your the best. I was not going to change pulleys anyway. Now I can tell everyone why.

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Jerry Jordan
99.5 Red Hot Bolt
13.44 @ 101.64
PSP filter and chip (tire destroyer)
Inpulse Lo-Pro bed cover
71 Cutlass conv.
Piper PA28-235
74 Suzuki TS185 (128 original miles)
Looking to buy an 8 second rear engine dragster (cheap)

 

Sal
Very good information. There sure is not a very wide safety margin on max. blower speed (10%)in stock form. As of yet I do not know of anyone losing a blower with just a chip. Since Downs Ford sells both SuperChips (chip) and their own blower pulley it will be very interesting to see what happens to one of their customers Lightnings with maybe both of these items on it. Any feedback from Lightning owners here with both items or the ASP pulley added. Thanks.

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BABolt
SVT#290



[This message has been edited by BABolt (edited 02-16-2000).]

 

Pheew, Sal, you are one smart man.

 

Gold, Sal, pure freakin' gold! You da Man!

------------------
Chuck 'Wyldman' Shelton
wyldman@houston.rr.com
Black 99.5 Lightning Build # 1273, DOB 5-14-99, NLOC #315
Best run to date 12.857 @103.48
CD Changer; Tow Pkg.; Lojack; Sal's custom nitrous chip; G-Tech/Pro; SnugLid; BedRug; Invinca-Shield, full kit; NOS KIT 100 hp shot (currently); Clear and smoke Lexan fog light covers; 3M Ti Window Tint; Bel radar detector (shouldn't be an accessory); PowerStack cone filter (a.k.a. supercharger waker upper); American Auto Designs ram air hood; Cal-Tracs traction bars; Bassani headers;Goodrich T/A Drag Radials; Muth Signal Mirrors, inbound

 

Sal, thanks for getting the word out. I actaully posted a similar message back on 8-11-99 in post https://www.f150online.com/f150board...ML/000103.html . In fact Sal you replied to it. Interesting how much we've learned about our trucks over the last 10 months.

The applicable excerpt from my post was:

"So I called Magnuson Products and talked to Ed Tresbac (spelling?). Magnuson is the only Eaton Authorized repair facility and acording to the Eaton website they support aftermarket system modifications, upgradability, and remanufacturer of out-of-warranty superchargers'........ He then went on to say that the supercharger is already spinning at 14000 rpm and if you spin it faster (ie, different pully) you would most likely get into a wobble mode on the screw lobes and crash into the wall or each other. He said he had talked to someone who had already tried to make the pulley change and that they had destroyed the supercharger in the process."

The rotor dynamics could be very interesting at 14Krpms. The pressure pulsing from the flapping egg beaters could cause fatigue problems over the long run (if you manage to have enough tollerances not to impact each other or the walls from the get go).

Since August I was hoping that someone would confirm what I researched. Thanks again Sal.

------------------
Joel.......
99.5 White Lightning,
SVT # 0056

 

edit

 

Joel
I remember your post. I also like the quality of your work after reviewing you photos. I am sure that you always did your homework and did it well. I would like to see someone running this stuff though. Not that I want to see anyone breaking there L's but just to push the limits. I am sure that with the chip and both pulleys changed out and reaching for maximum performance in a high ambient temperature situtation, the results would not be what one wanted or would expect. I posted that before too when I said that you may get abang out of these mods (another post). Again, Cool stuff that you have done Joel and nice photos there on my wallpaper (use WallChanger cool program only $10.00)

------------------
BABolt
SVT#290

 

Sal, are the blower rotors coated like the later supercoupe rotors ? Just wanting to know , had read that had helped SC. If not coated, maybe a latter lightnings could get up graded. Also are blower rotors strait or do they have a twist. Twist was done to SC same time got rotors coated. What I am getting to is if blower did not have above, it could be done to make rotors stronger , and hold up to more pressure . Another ? Does it realy help the performance spining motor up extra 300-400rpm. If set chip up to shift at the factory shift point, could get away with out over reving blower.

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99.5 Black Lighting
cd,tow pack,ford bed liner
2000 Mustang GT Convertible performance red , black top.
with cobra R wheels,BFG tires, bassani Xpipe, bassani mufflers/stock tips


[This message has been edited by William Mallo (edited 02-17-2000).]

 

Hey BABolt, Joel here. First off, thanks for the kind words about my craftsmanship.

I’m a mechanical engineer/stress analyst by trade and I’m always being criticized when I suggest that the loads may be too high (at that point I pull my drawer open to show all the broken parts of when I wasn’t consulted). At the same time I’m very practical. You never know for sure what the limit is until you have more separate parts than you start with. I for one have been patiently waiting to hear someone actually have a problem with their modified pulleys (not that I wish harm, I’m just not the adventurous leader type and this is my daily driver). The only problems and/or cautions I’ve heard have been about the installation process. Back in October I was talking to Patrick at Superchips and he told me about the other guy (Alex at PDQ Performance in Florida) who was going to market the “Downs” pulley setup. If I understand it right that deal fell through and it looks like Downs is going to be the only distributor for a while. I would love to get my hands on the AutoTap Scanner ( http://www.autotap.com/ ) so that I could monitor the IAT pre and post supercharger on both a stock-pulley'd and modified-pulley'd vehicle. I hope to do this by years end.

So what’s my point? If my Lightning wasn’t my daily driver I would have a Downs pulley on back order. This last weekend us AZ lightning folks went to a dyno day and one of the guys (who is not on the internet at all) had the APS pulley, Airaid filter kit, and the SHM chip. If I’m not mistaken (PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong AZ boys) I still had 10+ HP on him. So who knows? Spin’em faster, build more heat, horsepower improvement wash? Since the rotors aren’t hitting the walls from the get go, fatigue life would be my only concern….. and right know I need my truck to be reliable.

BTW, based on your posting yesterday I have the WallChanger software running as I write this. Thanks! Did you pay with a credit card or check to register (I never purchased shareware before)?

 

Sal
The ASP pulley is a little less than 3/16" in dia. The Orig. pulley is spinning at a 2.54:1 ratio the ASP pulley will spin at a 2.71:1 ratio making the 5500 rpm spin at 14,900 +,-. If you are not out there running 5000 RPM's or more on the highway for long periods of time you should be safe. 1/4 mile runs should be just fine since we are crossing at about 5000 +,-. RPM (3:73) unless you are running those 4:10's,

------------------
Andre Terranova (1-18-1947)
<*(((><
isa4325@flash.net / "1-BAD-TK" Texas Tag,
Red Lightning / Red Premier Tonneau Cover,
Red Shadow Cowl Cover / SuperChip,
3:73 Gears / K&N Filter,
Edelbrock muffler, Interceptor,
Laptop Computer at Side,
G-Tech,
Best Time 12.986 @ 107.54 "Tweeked to the Max".
[05-11-1999 #1132]
"Certificate on the Wall"


"Only Little Boys Wear Bow Ties"

 

Hey Andre, could you be a bit more specific on the ASP pulley size? A 3/16" diameter pulley would probably spin the blower at about a million rpm, and be really hard to bolt on. Not to mention having slippage problems from hardly any belt wrap

------------------
SAL (E-mail- PowerSurgePerf@aol.com)
13.35@103mph
All stock with PSP 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit

Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html

 

I suspect Andre meant to say 3 1/16", although I'm not sure where this figure comes from. According to the ASP web-site the blower pulley for the M112 is 2.67". I assume this is the sheave diameter.

------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

'92 Civic Si, Centerforce Dualfriction clutch, no front license plate.

'84 Alan Record Carbonio, Aerospoke wheels, Sugino AT crankset, Campy brakes (I think, hard to tell underneath the protective coat of grease and dirt).

'98 Honda "Harmony" 5.0 h.p. mulching mower, stock.

2000 silver SVT Lightning on order (the lawnmower will have to go).

alphadoggy@jetlink.net

 

I think JoeLightning about he supercharger spining thing. It would be need to see what the dynamic Rotor stress trace looked like.

JoeLightning, Where do you work? I Co-op for 12 months in a stress lab, liked it alot, might get back into it.

 

What I meant was that it is 3/16" less in Dia. than the stock pulley, SORRY!