I just took my 2005 F 150 to the local dealer to have the plugs change at 86,000 mile and he just called me to tell me the recommended extraction method did not work and he has to remove the head to change the plugs. I have owned 4 Ford pick up, but I will never own one again when a normal maintanince job costs over $2000.
Welcome to the forum, Gale, and I wish it were under better circumstances.
If you read the engine forum, you'll see a long litany of broken plugs during extraction in our trucks. I kind of wish I had known about this too, before buying my 2005 last year (used).
In reading all the posts in that forum, I thought they had finally worked out the technique of getting them out without breaking them. Seems they haven't.
I can't even tell from the posts if the new replacement plugs have been redesigned to prevent breakage. Guess I'll go over there and just "ask" about it.
And I just remembered: I read about a special tool (costs a few hundred dollars) that lets them pull broken plugs without removing the head. I asked about it over on the engine forum too. Seems to me your dealer should have that. If it is possible to get the plugs out without removing the head, I'd sure be complaining to Ford's customer relations.
- Jack
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2005 KR 4x4 SCrew 5.4
Last edited by JackandJanet; 06-06-2008 at 07:46 PM.
Reason: added information on special tool
I don't seem to be getting too much interest over on the Engine forum. My guess is, they think they've been all through this already, and don't need to go there again. I was just asking for a "summary" though. All the different posts became a bit confusing. Anyone else want to be "helpful"?
Extraction is usually successful if the TSB is followed closely. That means using the correct solvent and letting it soak the correct time, etc. Those that have broken plugs can usually extract them with the special tools. It should be rare that anyone has to remove a head. Also, I think it is important that gas with a good detergent is used. I have also seen some posting that they broke a plug after running p1 octane. Little did they realize they were doing more harm than good when the engine was tuned for 87.
Mine were changed at the dealer at 65,500 miles and all came out without a problem. They still looked new and had many miles left in them. My dealer follows the TSB and have had one broken plug, and it was on a truck that had over 100,000 miles on it.
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Jim
Flowmaster 40, K&N dropin, Tint, Roush wheels, 305/50/20s
Edge Evo with PHP custom tunes, GF 2" shackles
[quote=bluejay432000;3239972]Extraction is usually successful if the TSB is followed closely. That means using the correct solvent and letting it soak the correct time, etc. Those that have broken plugs can usually extract them with the special tools. It should be rare that anyone has to remove a head. Also, I think it is important that gas with a good detergent is used. I have also seen some posting that they broke a plug after running p1 octane. Little did they realize they were doing more harm than good when the engine was tuned for 87.
BlueJay432000,
Are you saying that it cause's more harm to the engine-plugs to run premium unleaded fuel in the KR Truck? I should stick to 87 as opposed to 89 or 91 fuel ? Please educate me, thanks.
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2008 Ford F-150 Supercrew King Ranch. Black w/ Audiophile, Moon, Power Slider, Static Rear-View Camera, Ranchitout Leather Accessories, A.R.E. LSII Fiberglass Tonneau and custom tinted windows.
Thanks for the input Jim. That was the "sense" I got from of all the discussions about plugs on the Engine forum. I thought it might be nice to verify it.
Gale, I think you might complain to Ford about your dealer. At least let the dealer know you are aware of the TSB on the plugs and that you'd like a satisfactory explanation for the need for a head removal.
bsteele, everything I've ever read or heard about fuel in engines from reputable sources in my 67 years says do not use higher octane fuel than the engine wants. However, Bluejay should really answer your question.
Extraction is usually successful if the TSB is followed closely. That means using the correct solvent and letting it soak the correct time, etc. Those that have broken plugs can usually extract them with the special tools. It should be rare that anyone has to remove a head. Also, I think it is important that gas with a good detergent is used. I have also seen some posting that they broke a plug after running p1 octane. Little did they realize they were doing more harm than good when the engine was tuned for 87.
BlueJay432000,
Are you saying that it cause's more harm to the engine-plugs to run premium unleaded fuel in the KR Truck? I should stick to 87 as opposed to 89 or 91 fuel ? Please educate me, thanks.
The systems are tuned to run on a specific octane. Our engines come from the factory tuned for 87. If you run a higher octane, it causes a delay in the firing of the cylinder, which can add carbon deposits to the cylinder. Higher octane creates more power by delaying the explosion, but the engine must be tuned for it so that the timing of the explosion is correct. So, some people, thinking that the higher octane must be better, run it on an 87 tune, and they may be actually adding carbon buildup on the plug stems. I have seen where guys had a problem with plug removal and said they had "even run 91 octane". So, in essence, what they did was pay more at the pump to worsen the plug problem. Now, if you have a tune in the truck computer that adjusts the timing to take advantage of the higher octane, whole different story. It will run just as clean and produce more power doing it.
Hope this helps.
An additional thought. I bought a new Expedition back in late 1999, a 2000 model. when I picked it up, the dealer warned me that it was tuned for 87 and to never run anything else as I could actually do more harm than good.
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Jim
Flowmaster 40, K&N dropin, Tint, Roush wheels, 305/50/20s
Edge Evo with PHP custom tunes, GF 2" shackles
Last edited by bluejay432000; 06-07-2008 at 11:54 PM.
Thanks Jim, that was my thinking too, but since you brought the point up....
The only thing that bothers me in all this is that even though we can advance timing and perhaps adjust the mixture to properly account for higher octane, we can't do anything about the compression! High octane fuels were meant for high compression engines. Aren't we still "losing" something?
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